Why are people so upset about Common Core?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Teacher here. If you compare the Common Core standards with those they replace, (pick any state standards) what you will find is the Common Core standards are incredibly wordy, vague, and poorly written. Every state that has implemented Common Core has had to develop its own interpretation of what these standards actually mean. That's an indication of how badly they are written. Standards should be specific and easy to understand in order to be implemented.

What is also unclear from the standards is how they should be assessed. It's just not clear from the standards themselves. And if you don't have agreement on how to assess standards, they are useless.

Another problem with CCSS is that they have pushed down skills and content from higher grades to lower grades without any rationale. Many of the standards are developmentally inappropriate, especially in the early childhood grades. In the higher grades, the shift from higher grades to lower grades is simply arbitrary.

If you ask the authors of these standards what they mean or why they were written, they are unable to provide answers. I attended a meeting in DC sponsored by the consultant that wrote the ELA standards. She couldn't address my questions and was clearly quite flummoxed to have to deal with an actual teacher at her event.

+1000
Thanks for summing up some of the problems with Common Core. (There are more.) As a teacher, I wholeheartedly agree.

As a teacher, I disagree. I find most of the Common COre State Standards to be clear, and easy to understand. Hardly vague at all, and means to assess the standards are clear.

[Anonymous]

As a teacher, I disagree. I find most of the Common COre State Standards to be clear, and easy to understand. Hardly vague at all, and means to assess the standards are clear.

I thought you were done here.

[Anonymous]

Seriously, 17:00? That's your answer? You think they are vague and hard and so we should pitch them because you don't get them? This is such a lazy response I have a hard time believing you are an actual teacher.

But hey, let's pretend you are.

So what do you think we should do?

Start over with real teachers in the development process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teacher here. If you compare the Common Core standards with those they replace, (pick any state standards) what you will find is the Common Core standards are incredibly wordy, vague, and poorly written. Every state that has implemented Common Core has had to develop its own interpretation of what these standards actually mean. That's an indication of how badly they are written. Standards should be specific and easy to understand in order to be implemented.

What is also unclear from the standards is how they should be assessed. It's just not clear from the standards themselves. And if you don't have agreement on how to assess standards, they are useless.

Another problem with CCSS is that they have pushed down skills and content from higher grades to lower grades without any rationale. Many of the standards are developmentally inappropriate, especially in the early childhood grades. In the higher grades, the shift from higher grades to lower grades is simply arbitrary.

If you ask the authors of these standards what they mean or why they were written, they are unable to provide answers. I attended a meeting in DC sponsored by the consultant that wrote the ELA standards. She couldn't address my questions and was clearly quite flummoxed to have to deal with an actual teacher at her event.

+1000
Thanks for summing up some of the problems with Common Core. (There are more.) As a teacher, I wholeheartedly agree.

As a teacher, I disagree. I find most of the Common COre State Standards to be clear, and easy to understand. Hardly vague at all, and means to assess the standards are clear.

What grade and what subject do you teach?

[Anonymous]

Seriously, 17:00? That's your answer? You think they are vague and hard and so we should pitch them because you don't get them? This is such a lazy response I have a hard time believing you are an actual teacher.

But hey, let's pretend you are.

So what do you think we should do?


Start over with real teachers in the development process.

You really don't know very much about Common Core, do you? Teachers were involved in the development of standards. But hey, since you missed that boat, what competencies are missing, in your professional opinion? Where are the standards wrong, inaccurate or inappropriate?

Be very specific. The stakes are high and standards are important to set the benchmarks we will use to accurately assess that we are educating students.

We'll await your alternative and superior standards and developmental justifications for their superiority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Seriously, 17:00? That's your answer? You think they are vague and hard and so we should pitch them because you don't get them? This is such a lazy response I have a hard time believing you are an actual teacher.

But hey, let's pretend you are.

So what do you think we should do?


Start over with real teachers in the development process.

You really don't know very much about Common Core, do you? Teachers were involved in the development of standards. But hey, since you missed that boat, what competencies are missing, in your professional opinion? Where are the standards wrong, inaccurate or inappropriate?

Be very specific. The stakes are high and standards are important to set the benchmarks we will use to accurately assess that we are educating students.

We'll await your alternative and superior standards and developmental justifications for their superiority.

Do you actually know any teachers who were involved in developing the standards? I asked for a list of teachers from DC. Got nothing. There probably were some committees, but I haven't met a single teacher who will admit to being involved in that mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Seriously, 17:00? That's your answer? You think they are vague and hard and so we should pitch them because you don't get them? This is such a lazy response I have a hard time believing you are an actual teacher.

But hey, let's pretend you are.

So what do you think we should do?


Start over with real teachers in the development process.

You really don't know very much about Common Core, do you? Teachers were involved in the development of standards. But hey, since you missed that boat, what competencies are missing, in your professional opinion? Where are the standards wrong, inaccurate or inappropriate?

Be very specific. The stakes are high and standards are important to set the benchmarks we will use to accurately assess that we are educating students.

We'll await your alternative and superior standards and developmental justifications for their superiority.

I'm a teacher and I have to tell you that the CCSS really aren't any better than what we had before in DC and actually, they're worse. Here are some examples:

RI5.2 Determine two or more main ideas of a text and explain how they are supported by key details; summarize the text.
Problem: Too many skills packed into one standard

RL5.2 Determine a theme of a story, drama, or poem from details in the text, including how characters in a story or drama respond to challenges or how the speaker in a poem reflects upon a topic; summarize the text.
Problem: again, packing too many skills into one standard.

RL5.5 Explain how a series of chapters, scenes, or stanzas fits together to provide the overall structure of a particular story, drama, or poem.
Problem: What the heck does this mean, and why would we want students to do it?

5.NBT.1 Recognize that in a multi-digit number, a digit in one place represents 10 times as much as it represents in the place to its right and 1/10 of what it represents in the place to its left.
This is so wordy. And what's the point?

[Anonymous]

You really don't know very much about Common Core, do you? Teachers were involved in the development of standards. But hey, since you missed that boat, what competencies are missing, in your professional opinion? Where are the standards wrong, inaccurate or inappropriate?

Then prove it. The lists I've seen of those who wrote the standards were mostly college professors. Not front line teachers.

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher and I have to tell you that the CCSS really aren't any better than what we had before in DC and actually, they're worse. Here are some examples:

RI5.2 Determine two or more main ideas of a text and explain how they are supported by key details; summarize the text.
Problem: Too many skills packed into one standard

RL5.2 Determine a theme of a story, drama, or poem from details in the text, including how characters in a story or drama respond to challenges or how the speaker in a poem reflects upon a topic; summarize the text.
Problem: again, packing too many skills into one standard.

RL5.5 Explain how a series of chapters, scenes, or stanzas fits together to provide the overall structure of a particular story, drama, or poem.
Problem: What the heck does this mean, and why would we want students to do it?

5.NBT.1 Recognize that in a multi-digit number, a digit in one place represents 10 times as much as it represents in the place to its right and 1/10 of what it represents in the place to its left.
This is so wordy. And what's the point?

Great examples. These are just what I would call "busy work standards". But, to evaluate them, they must be tested, and therein lies the rub.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm a teacher and I have to tell you that the CCSS really aren't any better than what we had before in DC and actually, they're worse. Here are some examples:

RI5.2 Determine two or more main ideas of a text and explain how they are supported by key details; summarize the text.
Problem: Too many skills packed into one standard

RL5.2 Determine a theme of a story, drama, or poem from details in the text, including how characters in a story or drama respond to challenges or how the speaker in a poem reflects upon a topic; summarize the text.
Problem: again, packing too many skills into one standard.

RL5.5 Explain how a series of chapters, scenes, or stanzas fits together to provide the overall structure of a particular story, drama, or poem.
Problem: What the heck does this mean, and why would we want students to do it?

5.NBT.1 Recognize that in a multi-digit number, a digit in one place represents 10 times as much as it represents in the place to its right and 1/10 of what it represents in the place to its left.
This is so wordy. And what's the point?

Great examples. These are just what I would call "busy work standards". But, to evaluate them, they must be tested, and therein lies the rub.

These honestly don't seem bad. Do you really not understand the point of the last one?

[Anonymous]

These honestly don't seem bad. Do you really not understand the point of the last one?

I'm not the PP, but I think there are lots of better ways to express a place value standard. Read it. Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

These honestly don't seem bad. Do you really not understand the point of the last one?

I'm not the PP, but I think there are lots of better ways to express a place value standard. Read it. Really?

It doesn't pass the laugh test

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

These honestly don't seem bad. Do you really not understand the point of the last one?

I'm not the PP, but I think there are lots of better ways to express a place value standard. Read it. Really?

I read it. It's fine. Do you think anybody putting a curriculum together would have any issues understanding what it means?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

These honestly don't seem bad. Do you really not understand the point of the last one?

I'm not the PP, but I think there are lots of better ways to express a place value standard. Read it. Really?

I read it. It's fine. Do you think anybody putting a curriculum together would have any issues understanding what it means?

They stink. They will not improve education. This was a huge waste of money for standards that are really substandard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm a teacher and I have to tell you that the CCSS really aren't any better than what we had before in DC and actually, they're worse. Here are some examples:

RI5.2 Determine two or more main ideas of a text and explain how they are supported by key details; summarize the text.
Problem: Too many skills packed into one standard

RL5.2 Determine a theme of a story, drama, or poem from details in the text, including how characters in a story or drama respond to challenges or how the speaker in a poem reflects upon a topic; summarize the text.
Problem: again, packing too many skills into one standard.

RL5.5 Explain how a series of chapters, scenes, or stanzas fits together to provide the overall structure of a particular story, drama, or poem.
Problem: What the heck does this mean, and why would we want students to do it?

5.NBT.1 Recognize that in a multi-digit number, a digit in one place represents 10 times as much as it represents in the place to its right and 1/10 of what it represents in the place to its left.
This is so wordy. And what's the point?

Great examples. These are just what I would call "busy work standards". But, to evaluate them, they must be tested, and therein lies the rub.

These honestly don't seem bad. Do you really not understand the point of the last one?

You don't have to use them several times a day or try to figure out how to assess them. The textbooks that have been generated to help implement these standards vary widely on how to teach and assess these standards. Each state has a different take. Two teachers in the same grande and school have difficulty agreeing on how to assess these standards. They are too wordy and incredibly vague, (although unnecessarily specific in some instances).