Why is SWS so white?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More DC income and other statistics if you'd like to parse them.
https://www.dchealthmatters.org/demographicdata?id=130951§ionId=936

Very interesting data. Only 20% of DC are kids and about 45% of households have only one person. This really is a city of singletons because the other 55% of households include roommate living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wanted to note that we are a MC white family in DC. HHI of 130-140k, both parents work.

We don't go to SWS but would if we got a spot because we really value a more holistic approach to education with less emphasis on testing/achievement and more focus on developing a love of learning. I recognize that to some extent, white privilege allows me to want that for my kid because I don't have to worry about them being discriminated against for their race, and I don't worry so much about my kid being viewed as "exceptional" academically because I think a reasonable middle class life will be available to them.

I will also note that I am aware that people in DC of all colors do not think we exist in DC. It's a genuine challenge navigating schools in this city because we don't have the resources of many other white families (or even the resources others presume us to have by virtue of being white people living in DC) but also we are not poor and our kid is not at risk in any way (stable housing, food, etc.). This was particularly challenging during the pandemic when it was assumed we would have resources for full time childcare so that we could work and when we said we didn't, we were accused of being "cheap."

ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR IS NOT LOWER MIDDLE CLASS!!! What planet are you people on???

I didn't say I was lower middle class. Please stop yelling at me. I said we were middle class, which we absolutely are. We are not rich. We do not own a $1m+ house on the Hill or elsewhere (our condo might be worth 500k now, but probably less). We do not have secret family money that we use to afford a higher standard of living. We are middle class.

Our IB schools have low test scores, but they also have very high truancy rates, high suspension rates (an anomaly in DC where suspensions are incredibly rare and often only authorized for serious violations like bringing a weapon or drugs onto campus), and are perennially under-enrolled. Even the schools on the Hill that many UMC and UC people would deem unacceptable for their children are light years better than our IB. I know because we actually go to one of those schools OOB and we know people on the Hill turn up their noses at it.

And yes, I'd go to SWS even though we are not wealthy. I'm just providing a data point here.

You literally just said you're not wealthy. You are wealthy. You make almost twice the median income for black families in DC. You need to get some perspective.

Lol this thread is hilarious. We have some people arguing that even though they own homes worth over a million dollars, they are't UMC, and conversely we have people like this saying that if you make over 100k a year, you are "wealthy".

130k is middle class in DC. It's right in the middle. The point you are trying to make is that black DC residents are more likely to be poor or lower middle class, and white residents more likely to be UMC or upper class. That's all true! It doesn't change the fact that 130k is middle class, both in DC and nationally. That's a middle class income by almost any metric, and unless the family in question has family money, significant real estate holdings, or other sources of wealth, they are middle class.

Perspective is useful but also words have meanings.

130K is close to the median household income for DC, but not nationally. It's actually more than 50% higher than the median income in many states. Whether or not it's middle class is a different conversation, but it's certainly upper middle class in many, many places. DC just doesn't happen to be one of those places.

Here's a chart of median household income for each state:
https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20220401/bci_data/median_income_table.htm

As you said, words have meanings and your words:

"It doesn't change the fact that 130k is middle class, both in DC and nationally."

may or may not be true depending on what we define as middle class, but they are not in the middle of the income graph nationally.

It's middle income in DC and also for the US as a whole. No, it may not be middle income in certain states or areas that are very economically depressed.

No one claimed that 130k was middle class in rural Mississippi. You can live like a king in a place like that on 53k, but the schools are pretty bad and the test scores are abysmal. So it's pretty irrelevant to this conversation about SWS in Washington DC, and it's test scores and academic quality, and whether it meets the needs of families of different incomes and races. Schools in the places you are talking about barely meet anyone's needs at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wanted to note that we are a MC white family in DC. HHI of 130-140k, both parents work.

We don't go to SWS but would if we got a spot because we really value a more holistic approach to education with less emphasis on testing/achievement and more focus on developing a love of learning. I recognize that to some extent, white privilege allows me to want that for my kid because I don't have to worry about them being discriminated against for their race, and I don't worry so much about my kid being viewed as "exceptional" academically because I think a reasonable middle class life will be available to them.

I will also note that I am aware that people in DC of all colors do not think we exist in DC. It's a genuine challenge navigating schools in this city because we don't have the resources of many other white families (or even the resources others presume us to have by virtue of being white people living in DC) but also we are not poor and our kid is not at risk in any way (stable housing, food, etc.). This was particularly challenging during the pandemic when it was assumed we would have resources for full time childcare so that we could work and when we said we didn't, we were accused of being "cheap."

ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR IS NOT LOWER MIDDLE CLASS!!! What planet are you people on???

I didn't say I was lower middle class. Please stop yelling at me. I said we were middle class, which we absolutely are. We are not rich. We do not own a $1m+ house on the Hill or elsewhere (our condo might be worth 500k now, but probably less). We do not have secret family money that we use to afford a higher standard of living. We are middle class.

Our IB schools have low test scores, but they also have very high truancy rates, high suspension rates (an anomaly in DC where suspensions are incredibly rare and often only authorized for serious violations like bringing a weapon or drugs onto campus), and are perennially under-enrolled. Even the schools on the Hill that many UMC and UC people would deem unacceptable for their children are light years better than our IB. I know because we actually go to one of those schools OOB and we know people on the Hill turn up their noses at it.

And yes, I'd go to SWS even though we are not wealthy. I'm just providing a data point here.

You literally just said you're not wealthy. You are wealthy. You make almost twice the median income for black families in DC. You need to get some perspective.

Lol this thread is hilarious. We have some people arguing that even though they own homes worth over a million dollars, they are't UMC, and conversely we have people like this saying that if you make over 100k a year, you are "wealthy".

130k is middle class in DC. It's right in the middle. The point you are trying to make is that black DC residents are more likely to be poor or lower middle class, and white residents more likely to be UMC or upper class. That's all true! It doesn't change the fact that 130k is middle class, both in DC and nationally. That's a middle class income by almost any metric, and unless the family in question has family money, significant real estate holdings, or other sources of wealth, they are middle class.

Perspective is useful but also words have meanings.

130K is close to the median household income for DC, but not nationally. It's actually more than 50% higher than the median income in many states. Whether or not it's middle class is a different conversation, but it's certainly upper middle class in many, many places. DC just doesn't happen to be one of those places.

Here's a chart of median household income for each state:
https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20220401/bci_data/median_income_table.htm

As you said, words have meanings and your words:

"It doesn't change the fact that 130k is middle class, both in DC and nationally."

may or may not be true depending on what we define as middle class, but they are not in the middle of the income graph nationally.

It's middle income in DC and also for the US as a whole. No, it may not be middle income in certain states or areas that are very economically depressed.

No one claimed that 130k was middle class in rural Mississippi. You can live like a king in a place like that on 53k, but the schools are pretty bad and the test scores are abysmal. So it's pretty irrelevant to this conversation about SWS in Washington DC, and it's test scores and academic quality, and whether it meets the needs of families of different incomes and races. Schools in the places you are talking about barely meet anyone's needs at all.

I mean next someone's going to pipe up that 130k is 200x the median income in Malawi (I just made this up to make a point, please don't fact check, it's not a fact) and therefore SWS should be shut down and moved to Malawi. Like what are we even talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wanted to note that we are a MC white family in DC. HHI of 130-140k, both parents work.

We don't go to SWS but would if we got a spot because we really value a more holistic approach to education with less emphasis on testing/achievement and more focus on developing a love of learning. I recognize that to some extent, white privilege allows me to want that for my kid because I don't have to worry about them being discriminated against for their race, and I don't worry so much about my kid being viewed as "exceptional" academically because I think a reasonable middle class life will be available to them.

I will also note that I am aware that people in DC of all colors do not think we exist in DC. It's a genuine challenge navigating schools in this city because we don't have the resources of many other white families (or even the resources others presume us to have by virtue of being white people living in DC) but also we are not poor and our kid is not at risk in any way (stable housing, food, etc.). This was particularly challenging during the pandemic when it was assumed we would have resources for full time childcare so that we could work and when we said we didn't, we were accused of being "cheap."

ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR IS NOT LOWER MIDDLE CLASS!!! What planet are you people on???

I didn't say I was lower middle class. Please stop yelling at me. I said we were middle class, which we absolutely are. We are not rich. We do not own a $1m+ house on the Hill or elsewhere (our condo might be worth 500k now, but probably less). We do not have secret family money that we use to afford a higher standard of living. We are middle class.

Our IB schools have low test scores, but they also have very high truancy rates, high suspension rates (an anomaly in DC where suspensions are incredibly rare and often only authorized for serious violations like bringing a weapon or drugs onto campus), and are perennially under-enrolled. Even the schools on the Hill that many UMC and UC people would deem unacceptable for their children are light years better than our IB. I know because we actually go to one of those schools OOB and we know people on the Hill turn up their noses at it.

And yes, I'd go to SWS even though we are not wealthy. I'm just providing a data point here.

You literally just said you're not wealthy. You are wealthy. You make almost twice the median income for black families in DC. You need to get some perspective.

Lol this thread is hilarious. We have some people arguing that even though they own homes worth over a million dollars, they are't UMC, and conversely we have people like this saying that if you make over 100k a year, you are "wealthy".

130k is middle class in DC. It's right in the middle. The point you are trying to make is that black DC residents are more likely to be poor or lower middle class, and white residents more likely to be UMC or upper class. That's all true! It doesn't change the fact that 130k is middle class, both in DC and nationally. That's a middle class income by almost any metric, and unless the family in question has family money, significant real estate holdings, or other sources of wealth, they are middle class.

Perspective is useful but also words have meanings.

130K is close to the median household income for DC, but not nationally. It's actually more than 50% higher than the median income in many states. Whether or not it's middle class is a different conversation, but it's certainly upper middle class in many, many places. DC just doesn't happen to be one of those places.

Here's a chart of median household income for each state:
https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20220401/bci_data/median_income_table.htm

As you said, words have meanings and your words:

"It doesn't change the fact that 130k is middle class, both in DC and nationally."

may or may not be true depending on what we define as middle class, but they are not in the middle of the income graph nationally.

that table seems inaccurate specifically for DC as the values for 2 people and 3 people are the same whereas those values vary appropriately for other locations. Something got copied/pasted incorrectly there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I-Ready probably asks some questions on subject matter that has not been taught yet at the beginning of the year so lots of kids miss those questions early on and answer them correctly later. But that is not really self-serving. It is certainly possible to test above grade level at the start of the year on I-Ready and then just stagnate.

That’s what happened with both my kids. Worked with them over the summer. They were above grade level coming in this year. Then slowly slid backwards. Thanks SWS!

SWS has among the best math PARCC scores on the Hill excluding Brent which is a higher SES population. Don't think you're getting much better anywhere else in DCPS. Everything taught was appropriate grade level and they got a math worksheet for homework every week which had the same kinds of grade appropriate questions as Khan academy, etc.

You are certainly going to get better at JKLMM schools. The math worksheets are a joke. They’re maybe 8 problems for the entire week. I’m not a big advocate for more homework, but the math instruction is weak.

[bActually better or just find a higher percentage of very high SES kids with type A parents who freak out about test scores and immediately/automatically ensure their kid has tutoring on top of 7 extracurriculars? SWS is a bit different in that SES may be lower across ALL ethnicities.[/b] It's a city wide school so many people are there because they cannot afford to live in a school district with better performing scores. Take the median SES at SWS even among the caucasian ethnicity and I promise you, it's going to be lower than Maury.

However, DCUM talks like 100% of parents could have chosen Brent or JKLMM. Do you understand the wealth bubble you live in to make that type of claim?

You’re asserting that there are LMC or poor white kids at SWS? Seriously? That is laughable.

PARCC scores are broken out by race. Compare the SWS UMC white kid scores to the NW or Brent UMC white kid scores. And yes, they are UMC by any metric.

Yes, I'm asserting there are more regular MC/LMC white folks at SWS who can't afford to live in bounds for something more desirable and lottery in. I'd also assert that people who live in bounds for Brent are over the top rich, not just UMC. If you are affording a $1M+ home, you are rich. Not everyone lives in your (apparently rich?) bubble? Not everyone has choices the way you think they do.

There are virtually no LMC white families in DC, much less all at SWS. I live on a street with 3 SWS families and every one of them has a house that would sell for over $1 million. They pass about 10 other families en route to drop off; all of them live in $1 million+ houses too. Are there going to be some families who don’t? Of course, but much of the Maury zone has houses well under that range (16th st & east, e.g.)… and even the Brent zone has apartments. Brent is also only 65% IB, so nearly 1/3rd exactly the same types of folks you’re describing st SWS.

How is Brent only 65% IB if it waitlists IB kids?

It obviously only waitlists IB kids for PK (since that's the only time IB kids can ever be waitlisted for their IB). It also takes truckloads of kids for K recently (look at last year's numbers & then this year's already).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I-Ready probably asks some questions on subject matter that has not been taught yet at the beginning of the year so lots of kids miss those questions early on and answer them correctly later. But that is not really self-serving. It is certainly possible to test above grade level at the start of the year on I-Ready and then just stagnate.

That’s what happened with both my kids. Worked with them over the summer. They were above grade level coming in this year. Then slowly slid backwards. Thanks SWS!

SWS has among the best math PARCC scores on the Hill excluding Brent which is a higher SES population. Don't think you're getting much better anywhere else in DCPS. Everything taught was appropriate grade level and they got a math worksheet for homework every week which had the same kinds of grade appropriate questions as Khan academy, etc.

You are certainly going to get better at JKLMM schools. The math worksheets are a joke. They’re maybe 8 problems for the entire week. I’m not a big advocate for more homework, but the math instruction is weak.

[bActually better or just find a higher percentage of very high SES kids with type A parents who freak out about test scores and immediately/automatically ensure their kid has tutoring on top of 7 extracurriculars? SWS is a bit different in that SES may be lower across ALL ethnicities.[/b] It's a city wide school so many people are there because they cannot afford to live in a school district with better performing scores. Take the median SES at SWS even among the caucasian ethnicity and I promise you, it's going to be lower than Maury.

However, DCUM talks like 100% of parents could have chosen Brent or JKLMM. Do you understand the wealth bubble you live in to make that type of claim?

You’re asserting that there are LMC or poor white kids at SWS? Seriously? That is laughable.

PARCC scores are broken out by race. Compare the SWS UMC white kid scores to the NW or Brent UMC white kid scores. And yes, they are UMC by any metric.

Yes, I'm asserting there are more regular MC/LMC white folks at SWS who can't afford to live in bounds for something more desirable and lottery in. I'd also assert that people who live in bounds for Brent are over the top rich, not just UMC. If you are affording a $1M+ home, you are rich. Not everyone lives in your (apparently rich?) bubble? Not everyone has choices the way you think they do.

There are virtually no LMC white families in DC, much less all at SWS. I live on a street with 3 SWS families and every one of them has a house that would sell for over $1 million. They pass about 10 other families en route to drop off; all of them live in $1 million+ houses too. Are there going to be some families who don’t? Of course, but much of the Maury zone has houses well under that range (16th st & east, e.g.)… and even the Brent zone has apartments. Brent is also only 65% IB, so nearly 1/3rd exactly the same types of folks you’re describing st SWS.

I’m not sure how you defined LMC/MC but the median DC income is around 100k. There are certainly white/
nonprofit/Hill staff families in DC that probably fall under that if a parent stays home or if there is a divorce. One secret of Capitol Hill is that you can actually rent apartments and houses for comparatively little. So there absolutely could be a significant number of MC white families renting here.

LMC is not defined relative to a single city's median income. In a divorce situation, both parents' incomes count in terms of national statistics for child poverty except in cases of abandonment/non collection of child support. Very few white families on the Hill have a full time stay at home parent, much less one where the other makes sub-100K. You cannot rent apartments or houses sized for a family for compartively little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To add the following schools rank above SWS when it comes to just white student performance:

Math
Marie Reed
Stoddert
Payne
Janney
Lafayette
Tyler
Watkins
Key
Maury
Inspired
Eaton
DC Bilingual
LT
Ross
Shepherd
Mann
Oyster
Hyde
Even Jefferson MS
Two Rivers
Powell

ELA
Ross
Powell
Bancroft
LT
Key
Payne
Shepherd
Eaton
Maury
Janney
Hearst
Stoddert
Inspired
Lafayette
Jefferson middle (again, only showing cuz CH), Sojourner Truth for that matter
DCB
Two rivers Young
Watkins
Mann
Brent
Tyler
Murch
Oyster
Hyde
Two Rivers 4th
Marie Reed


Also to point out again, SWS has the highest population of white kids outside of the WOTP and some IB CH schools.

SWS has a long way to go. It’s sort of like the CH version of Creative Minds - white people continue to enroll to be amongst white people, not because it’s a better school.

Don’t get me started on their Black student performance. Their ELA scores a whopping 15% - the worst school in the City is scores 11%. They are tied for 5th from last place! Math is a tad better at 27%, tied with Bridges and below Center City Brightwood, Height….

So tell me what exactly does SWS do well?

"Here is 1 metric, based off a flawed standardized test, that a small minority of parents actually care about."

Oh come on. No one is saying PARCC tests are perfect, but when your white kids are underperforming schools in the city most of your parents would never consider and you're tied for 5th worst in the city for AA acheivement in the subject most linked to social mobility (ELA) at a school w/ enormous parental resources and social capital which claims that racial equity is basically its driving mission... something would seem to be very wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To add the following schools rank above SWS when it comes to just white student performance:

Math
Marie Reed
Stoddert
Payne
Janney
Lafayette
Tyler
Watkins
Key
Maury
Inspired
Eaton
DC Bilingual
LT
Ross
Shepherd
Mann
Oyster
Hyde
Even Jefferson MS
Two Rivers
Powell

ELA
Ross
Powell
Bancroft
LT
Key
Payne
Shepherd
Eaton
Maury
Janney
Hearst
Stoddert
Inspired
Lafayette
Jefferson middle (again, only showing cuz CH), Sojourner Truth for that matter
DCB
Two rivers Young
Watkins
Mann
Brent
Tyler
Murch
Oyster
Hyde
Two Rivers 4th
Marie Reed


Also to point out again, SWS has the highest population of white kids outside of the WOTP and some IB CH schools.

SWS has a long way to go. It’s sort of like the CH version of Creative Minds - white people continue to enroll to be amongst white people, not because it’s a better school.

Don’t get me started on their Black student performance. Their ELA scores a whopping 15% - the worst school in the City is scores 11%. They are tied for 5th from last place! Math is a tad better at 27%, tied with Bridges and below Center City Brightwood, Height….

So tell me what exactly does SWS do well?

"Here is 1 metric, based off a flawed standardized test, that a small minority of parents actually care about."

Oh come on. No one is saying PARCC tests are perfect, but when your white kids are underperforming schools in the city most of your parents would never consider and you're tied for 5th worst in the city for AA acheivement in the subject most linked to social mobility (ELA) at a school w/ enormous parental resources and social capital which claims that racial equity is basically its driving mission... something would seem to be very wrong.

It stands to reason that SWS parents may be a little less hard charging at home when it comes to academics and that that posture coheres with SWS’s more gentle approach. If it’s a good fit for them, why complain?

Wouldn’t work for my kids, but is there some evidence that SWS kids fall on their face elsewhere? If not, let SWS be SWS now, let SWS be SWS tomorruh, let SWS be SWS forevah!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I-Ready probably asks some questions on subject matter that has not been taught yet at the beginning of the year so lots of kids miss those questions early on and answer them correctly later. But that is not really self-serving. It is certainly possible to test above grade level at the start of the year on I-Ready and then just stagnate.

That’s what happened with both my kids. Worked with them over the summer. They were above grade level coming in this year. Then slowly slid backwards. Thanks SWS!

SWS has among the best math PARCC scores on the Hill excluding Brent which is a higher SES population. Don't think you're getting much better anywhere else in DCPS. Everything taught was appropriate grade level and they got a math worksheet for homework every week which had the same kinds of grade appropriate questions as Khan academy, etc.

You are certainly going to get better at JKLMM schools. The math worksheets are a joke. They’re maybe 8 problems for the entire week. I’m not a big advocate for more homework, but the math instruction is weak.

[bActually better or just find a higher percentage of very high SES kids with type A parents who freak out about test scores and immediately/automatically ensure their kid has tutoring on top of 7 extracurriculars? SWS is a bit different in that SES may be lower across ALL ethnicities.[/b] It's a city wide school so many people are there because they cannot afford to live in a school district with better performing scores. Take the median SES at SWS even among the caucasian ethnicity and I promise you, it's going to be lower than Maury.

However, DCUM talks like 100% of parents could have chosen Brent or JKLMM. Do you understand the wealth bubble you live in to make that type of claim?

You’re asserting that there are LMC or poor white kids at SWS? Seriously? That is laughable.

PARCC scores are broken out by race. Compare the SWS UMC white kid scores to the NW or Brent UMC white kid scores. And yes, they are UMC by any metric.

Yes, I'm asserting there are more regular MC/LMC white folks at SWS who can't afford to live in bounds for something more desirable and lottery in. I'd also assert that people who live in bounds for Brent are over the top rich, not just UMC. If you are affording a $1M+ home, you are rich. Not everyone lives in your (apparently rich?) bubble? Not everyone has choices the way you think they do.

There are virtually no LMC white families in DC, much less all at SWS. I live on a street with 3 SWS families and every one of them has a house that would sell for over $1 million. They pass about 10 other families en route to drop off; all of them live in $1 million+ houses too. Are there going to be some families who don’t? Of course, but much of the Maury zone has houses well under that range (16th st & east, e.g.)… and even the Brent zone has apartments. Brent is also only 65% IB, so nearly 1/3rd exactly the same types of folks you’re describing st SWS.

I’m not sure how you defined LMC/MC but the median DC income is around 100k. There are certainly white/
nonprofit/Hill staff families in DC that probably fall under that if a parent stays home or if there is a divorce. One secret of Capitol Hill is that you can actually rent apartments and houses for comparatively little. So there absolutely could be a significant number of MC white families renting here.

LMC is not defined relative to a single city's median income. In a divorce situation, both parents' incomes count in terms of national statistics for child poverty except in cases of abandonment/non collection of child support. Very few white families on the Hill have a full time stay at home parent, much less one where the other makes sub-100K. You cannot rent apartments or houses sized for a family for compartively little.

Rents on the Hill are cheaper or as cheap as other metro-accessible areas around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wanted to note that we are a MC white family in DC. HHI of 130-140k, both parents work.

We don't go to SWS but would if we got a spot because we really value a more holistic approach to education with less emphasis on testing/achievement and more focus on developing a love of learning. I recognize that to some extent, white privilege allows me to want that for my kid because I don't have to worry about them being discriminated against for their race, and I don't worry so much about my kid being viewed as "exceptional" academically because I think a reasonable middle class life will be available to them.

I will also note that I am aware that people in DC of all colors do not think we exist in DC. It's a genuine challenge navigating schools in this city because we don't have the resources of many other white families (or even the resources others presume us to have by virtue of being white people living in DC) but also we are not poor and our kid is not at risk in any way (stable housing, food, etc.). This was particularly challenging during the pandemic when it was assumed we would have resources for full time childcare so that we could work and when we said we didn't, we were accused of being "cheap."

ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR IS NOT LOWER MIDDLE CLASS!!! What planet are you people on???

I didn't say I was lower middle class. Please stop yelling at me. I said we were middle class, which we absolutely are. We are not rich. We do not own a $1m+ house on the Hill or elsewhere (our condo might be worth 500k now, but probably less). We do not have secret family money that we use to afford a higher standard of living. We are middle class.

Our IB schools have low test scores, but they also have very high truancy rates, high suspension rates (an anomaly in DC where suspensions are incredibly rare and often only authorized for serious violations like bringing a weapon or drugs onto campus), and are perennially under-enrolled. Even the schools on the Hill that many UMC and UC people would deem unacceptable for their children are light years better than our IB. I know because we actually go to one of those schools OOB and we know people on the Hill turn up their noses at it.

And yes, I'd go to SWS even though we are not wealthy. I'm just providing a data point here.

You literally just said you're not wealthy. You are wealthy. You make almost twice the median income for black families in DC. You need to get some perspective.

Lol this thread is hilarious. We have some people arguing that even though they own homes worth over a million dollars, they are't UMC, and conversely we have people like this saying that if you make over 100k a year, you are "wealthy".

130k is middle class in DC. It's right in the middle. The point you are trying to make is that black DC residents are more likely to be poor or lower middle class, and white residents more likely to be UMC or upper class. That's all true! It doesn't change the fact that 130k is middle class, both in DC and nationally. That's a middle class income by almost any metric, and unless the family in question has family money, significant real estate holdings, or other sources of wealth, they are middle class.

Perspective is useful but also words have meanings.

130K is close to the median household income for DC, but not nationally. It's actually more than 50% higher than the median income in many states. Whether or not it's middle class is a different conversation, but it's certainly upper middle class in many, many places. DC just doesn't happen to be one of those places.

Here's a chart of median household income for each state:
https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20220401/bci_data/median_income_table.htm

As you said, words have meanings and your words:

"It doesn't change the fact that 130k is middle class, both in DC and nationally."

may or may not be true depending on what we define as middle class, but they are not in the middle of the income graph nationally.

It's middle income in DC and also for the US as a whole. No, it may not be middle income in certain states or areas that are very economically depressed.

No one claimed that 130k was middle class in rural Mississippi. You can live like a king in a place like that on 53k, but the schools are pretty bad and the test scores are abysmal. So it's pretty irrelevant to this conversation about SWS in Washington DC, and it's test scores and academic quality, and whether it meets the needs of families of different incomes and races. Schools in the places you are talking about barely meet anyone's needs at all.

I mean next someone's going to pipe up that 130k is 200x the median income in Malawi (I just made this up to make a point, please don't fact check, it's not a fact) and therefore SWS should be shut down and moved to Malawi. Like what are we even talking about?

Any particular reason you decided to pick on Malawi? Why not a poor white country in the Caucasus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To add the following schools rank above SWS when it comes to just white student performance:

Math
Marie Reed
Stoddert
Payne
Janney
Lafayette
Tyler
Watkins
Key
Maury
Inspired
Eaton
DC Bilingual
LT
Ross
Shepherd
Mann
Oyster
Hyde
Even Jefferson MS
Two Rivers
Powell

ELA
Ross
Powell
Bancroft
LT
Key
Payne
Shepherd
Eaton
Maury
Janney
Hearst
Stoddert
Inspired
Lafayette
Jefferson middle (again, only showing cuz CH), Sojourner Truth for that matter
DCB
Two rivers Young
Watkins
Mann
Brent
Tyler
Murch
Oyster
Hyde
Two Rivers 4th
Marie Reed


Also to point out again, SWS has the highest population of white kids outside of the WOTP and some IB CH schools.

SWS has a long way to go. It’s sort of like the CH version of Creative Minds - white people continue to enroll to be amongst white people, not because it’s a better school.

Don’t get me started on their Black student performance. Their ELA scores a whopping 15% - the worst school in the City is scores 11%. They are tied for 5th from last place! Math is a tad better at 27%, tied with Bridges and below Center City Brightwood, Height….

So tell me what exactly does SWS do well?

"Here is 1 metric, based off a flawed standardized test, that a small minority of parents actually care about."

Oh come on. No one is saying PARCC tests are perfect, but when your white kids are underperforming schools in the city most of your parents would never consider and you're tied for 5th worst in the city for AA acheivement in the subject most linked to social mobility (ELA) at a school w/ enormous parental resources and social capital which claims that racial equity is basically its driving mission... something would seem to be very wrong.

It stands to reason that SWS parents may be a little less hard charging at home when it comes to academics and that that posture coheres with SWS’s more gentle approach. If it’s a good fit for them, why complain?

Wouldn’t work for my kids, but is there some evidence that SWS kids fall on their face elsewhere? If not, let SWS be SWS now, let SWS be SWS tomorruh, let SWS be SWS forevah!!

Because we all pay taxes for all kids to be educated, not learn to make vegan brownies. Fact of the matter is a school can walk and chew gum at the same time. My kids have gone to 2 of the schools that are considered gentle approach (with fewer white kids and more at risk kids) and they far out perform SWS on about every data.

I’m the poster that posted the stats and my primary reason for posting them was to bring the SWS parent that bragged about SWS’s math scores down a notch. In fact, when you dig in you can see they’re rather abysmal with every peer group compared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To add the following schools rank above SWS when it comes to just white student performance:

Math
Marie Reed
Stoddert
Payne
Janney
Lafayette
Tyler
Watkins
Key
Maury
Inspired
Eaton
DC Bilingual
LT
Ross
Shepherd
Mann
Oyster
Hyde
Even Jefferson MS
Two Rivers
Powell

ELA
Ross
Powell
Bancroft
LT
Key
Payne
Shepherd
Eaton
Maury
Janney
Hearst
Stoddert
Inspired
Lafayette
Jefferson middle (again, only showing cuz CH), Sojourner Truth for that matter
DCB
Two rivers Young
Watkins
Mann
Brent
Tyler
Murch
Oyster
Hyde
Two Rivers 4th
Marie Reed


Also to point out again, SWS has the highest population of white kids outside of the WOTP and some IB CH schools.

SWS has a long way to go. It’s sort of like the CH version of Creative Minds - white people continue to enroll to be amongst white people, not because it’s a better school.

Don’t get me started on their Black student performance. Their ELA scores a whopping 15% - the worst school in the City is scores 11%. They are tied for 5th from last place! Math is a tad better at 27%, tied with Bridges and below Center City Brightwood, Height….

So tell me what exactly does SWS do well?

"Here is 1 metric, based off a flawed standardized test, that a small minority of parents actually care about."

Oh come on. No one is saying PARCC tests are perfect, but when your white kids are underperforming schools in the city most of your parents would never consider and you're tied for 5th worst in the city for AA acheivement in the subject most linked to social mobility (ELA) at a school w/ enormous parental resources and social capital which claims that racial equity is basically its driving mission... something would seem to be very wrong.

It stands to reason that SWS parents may be a little less hard charging at home when it comes to academics and that that posture coheres with SWS’s more gentle approach. If it’s a good fit for them, why complain?

Wouldn’t work for my kids, but is there some evidence that SWS kids fall on their face elsewhere? If not, let SWS be SWS now, let SWS be SWS tomorruh, let SWS be SWS forevah!!

Because we all pay taxes for all kids to be educated, not learn to make vegan brownies. Fact of the matter is a school can walk and chew gum at the same time. My kids have gone to 2 of the schools that are considered gentle approach (with fewer white kids and more at risk kids) and they far out perform SWS on about every data.

I’m the poster that posted the stats and my primary reason for posting them was to bring the SWS parent that bragged about SWS’s math scores down a notch. In fact, when you dig in you can see they’re rather abysmal with every peer group compared.

And the reason for this is because SWS has shoved academics aside in favor of this BS: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1123051.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To add the following schools rank above SWS when it comes to just white student performance:

Math
Marie Reed
Stoddert
Payne
Janney
Lafayette
Tyler
Watkins
Key
Maury
Inspired
Eaton
DC Bilingual
LT
Ross
Shepherd
Mann
Oyster
Hyde
Even Jefferson MS
Two Rivers
Powell

ELA
Ross
Powell
Bancroft
LT
Key
Payne
Shepherd
Eaton
Maury
Janney
Hearst
Stoddert
Inspired
Lafayette
Jefferson middle (again, only showing cuz CH), Sojourner Truth for that matter
DCB
Two rivers Young
Watkins
Mann
Brent
Tyler
Murch
Oyster
Hyde
Two Rivers 4th
Marie Reed


Also to point out again, SWS has the highest population of white kids outside of the WOTP and some IB CH schools.

SWS has a long way to go. It’s sort of like the CH version of Creative Minds - white people continue to enroll to be amongst white people, not because it’s a better school.

Don’t get me started on their Black student performance. Their ELA scores a whopping 15% - the worst school in the City is scores 11%. They are tied for 5th from last place! Math is a tad better at 27%, tied with Bridges and below Center City Brightwood, Height….

So tell me what exactly does SWS do well?

"Here is 1 metric, based off a flawed standardized test, that a small minority of parents actually care about."

Oh come on. No one is saying PARCC tests are perfect, but when your white kids are underperforming schools in the city most of your parents would never consider and you're tied for 5th worst in the city for AA acheivement in the subject most linked to social mobility (ELA) at a school w/ enormous parental resources and social capital which claims that racial equity is basically its driving mission... something would seem to be very wrong.

It stands to reason that SWS parents may be a little less hard charging at home when it comes to academics and that that posture coheres with SWS’s more gentle approach. If it’s a good fit for them, why complain?

Wouldn’t work for my kids, but is there some evidence that SWS kids fall on their face elsewhere? If not, let SWS be SWS now, let SWS be SWS tomorruh, let SWS be SWS forevah!!

Because we all pay taxes for all kids to be educated, not learn to make vegan brownies. Fact of the matter is a school can walk and chew gum at the same time. My kids have gone to 2 of the schools that are considered gentle approach (with fewer white kids and more at risk kids) and they far out perform SWS on about every data.

I’m the poster that posted the stats and my primary reason for posting them was to bring the SWS parent that bragged about SWS’s math scores down a notch. In fact, when you dig in you can see they’re rather abysmal with every peer group compared.

And the reason for this is because SWS has shoved academics aside in favor of this BS: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1123051.page

Sheesh. The white affinity group based on race is exactly what keeps Trump a viable candidate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To add the following schools rank above SWS when it comes to just white student performance:

Math
Marie Reed
Stoddert
Payne
Janney
Lafayette
Tyler
Watkins
Key
Maury
Inspired
Eaton
DC Bilingual
LT
Ross
Shepherd
Mann
Oyster
Hyde
Even Jefferson MS
Two Rivers
Powell

ELA
Ross
Powell
Bancroft
LT
Key
Payne
Shepherd
Eaton
Maury
Janney
Hearst
Stoddert
Inspired
Lafayette
Jefferson middle (again, only showing cuz CH), Sojourner Truth for that matter
DCB
Two rivers Young
Watkins
Mann
Brent
Tyler
Murch
Oyster
Hyde
Two Rivers 4th
Marie Reed


Also to point out again, SWS has the highest population of white kids outside of the WOTP and some IB CH schools.

SWS has a long way to go. It’s sort of like the CH version of Creative Minds - white people continue to enroll to be amongst white people, not because it’s a better school.

Don’t get me started on their Black student performance. Their ELA scores a whopping 15% - the worst school in the City is scores 11%. They are tied for 5th from last place! Math is a tad better at 27%, tied with Bridges and below Center City Brightwood, Height….

So tell me what exactly does SWS do well?

"Here is 1 metric, based off a flawed standardized test, that a small minority of parents actually care about."

Oh come on. No one is saying PARCC tests are perfect, but when your white kids are underperforming schools in the city most of your parents would never consider and you're tied for 5th worst in the city for AA acheivement in the subject most linked to social mobility (ELA) at a school w/ enormous parental resources and social capital which claims that racial equity is basically its driving mission... something would seem to be very wrong.

It stands to reason that SWS parents may be a little less hard charging at home when it comes to academics and that that posture coheres with SWS’s more gentle approach. If it’s a good fit for them, why complain?

Wouldn’t work for my kids, but is there some evidence that SWS kids fall on their face elsewhere? If not, let SWS be SWS now, let SWS be SWS tomorruh, let SWS be SWS forevah!!

SWS is a great school for kids who aren’t exactly academically oriented. If you don’t have great aspirations in that area, you can be happy at SWS, muddle through Stuart Hobson, and graduate from eastern. School isn’t for everyone and I am not trying to be shady. If you’re looking for real academics, literally any other school is a better option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To add the following schools rank above SWS when it comes to just white student performance:

Math
Marie Reed
Stoddert
Payne
Janney
Lafayette
Tyler
Watkins
Key
Maury
Inspired
Eaton
DC Bilingual
LT
Ross
Shepherd
Mann
Oyster
Hyde
Even Jefferson MS
Two Rivers
Powell

ELA
Ross
Powell
Bancroft
LT
Key
Payne
Shepherd
Eaton
Maury
Janney
Hearst
Stoddert
Inspired
Lafayette
Jefferson middle (again, only showing cuz CH), Sojourner Truth for that matter
DCB
Two rivers Young
Watkins
Mann
Brent
Tyler
Murch
Oyster
Hyde
Two Rivers 4th
Marie Reed


Also to point out again, SWS has the highest population of white kids outside of the WOTP and some IB CH schools.

SWS has a long way to go. It’s sort of like the CH version of Creative Minds - white people continue to enroll to be amongst white people, not because it’s a better school.

Don’t get me started on their Black student performance. Their ELA scores a whopping 15% - the worst school in the City is scores 11%. They are tied for 5th from last place! Math is a tad better at 27%, tied with Bridges and below Center City Brightwood, Height….

So tell me what exactly does SWS do well?

"Here is 1 metric, based off a flawed standardized test, that a small minority of parents actually care about."

Oh come on. No one is saying PARCC tests are perfect, but when your white kids are underperforming schools in the city most of your parents would never consider and you're tied for 5th worst in the city for AA acheivement in the subject most linked to social mobility (ELA) at a school w/ enormous parental resources and social capital which claims that racial equity is basically its driving mission... something would seem to be very wrong.

It stands to reason that SWS parents may be a little less hard charging at home when it comes to academics and that that posture coheres with SWS’s more gentle approach. If it’s a good fit for them, why complain?

Wouldn’t work for my kids, but is there some evidence that SWS kids fall on their face elsewhere? If not, let SWS be SWS now, let SWS be SWS tomorruh, let SWS be SWS forevah!!

Because we all pay taxes for all kids to be educated, not learn to make vegan brownies. Fact of the matter is a school can walk and chew gum at the same time. My kids have gone to 2 of the schools that are considered gentle approach (with fewer white kids and more at risk kids) and they far out perform SWS on about every data.

I’m the poster that posted the stats and my primary reason for posting them was to bring the SWS parent that bragged about SWS’s math scores down a notch. In fact, when you dig in you can see they’re rather abysmal with every peer group compared.

And the reason for this is because SWS has shoved academics aside in favor of this BS: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1123051.page

Sheesh. The white affinity group based on race is exactly what keeps Trump a viable candidate.

Your racial discrimination and lying about standards doesn't hurt either.