FCPS honors courses: Jay Mathews says eliminate basic courses and have honors courses for all

[Anonymous]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/class-struggle/post/why-not-honors-courses-for-all/2011/05/29/AGjTCGEH_blog.html

Posted at 03:12 PM ET, 05/29/2011
Why not honors courses for all?
By Jay Mathews

Parents in Fairfax County have proved themselves one of the largest and most powerful forces for innovation in American education. But they have taken a wrong turn in their effort to save the three-track system—basic, honors and AP/IB— in the county’s high schools.

[ Edited to comply with copyright laws. ]

[Anonymous]

Jay Mathews knows not what he talks about. I wish he'd stop writing idiotic articles for the Post and get rid of his useless rating system. I've been in class with "basic" kids. They, in general, do not perform at the same level as AP-material kids. Keep the tracks.

[Anonymous]

How about requiring all students to take AP classes? That would be the logical extension of Jay's argument that the most rigorous courses are appropriate for everyone.

[Anonymous]

PP here -- I meant that all students should take ONLY AP courses, if available!

[Anonymous]

So stupid. Some kids aren't going to college, why should they have to take honors? Just get them their HS diploma so they can move on to charge the rest of us $100/hr to fix our pipes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here -- I meant that all students should take ONLY AP courses, if available!

I am fine with the AP courses in math and science, but the English and history AP courses are truly over-rated. They leave no room for critical thinking and if a kid can write, I have found that they really screw with this skill. Purely a teach to the test experience.

[Anonymous]

This is a wonderful idea. then the average to below-average students could fall even farther behind.

[Anonymous]

Jay Mathews has way too much power. He's not even an educator, what makes him such an expert on teaching? Because he went to Harvard?

[Anonymous]

I had the same initial reaction re: his rating system, but the more I've thought about it, the more it makes sense. Thinking in terms of SES (which is not what he's doing necessarily), a rich HS will have a pretty high score, because the majority of kids are taking lots of APs. But, some low-performers may be masked because average number of AP classes are used. If you're thinking of sending your kid to this school, it probably doesn't matter, because your kid will likely be in that successful majority.

If you're talking about a poor school, you can really get a sense of which schools are challenging their students, or which are writing them off. My DH went to a high school that wasn't bad when he went but has since transitioned into a much different demographic. Even when he was there, there was tons of tracking, so only the 'elite' kids did well and went off to good colleges. It's obvious that the school is still writing those kids off, but now they make up a much larger percentage, so they're impacting the school's rating. There aren't enough of the 'traditional' AP kids at the school now, so there haven't been enough AP classes taken, and they're not trying to get the other kids in these classes. That school is not doing a good job of educating all its students.

My HS has had a similar demographic shift but is much higher on the list and continues to rise. They are shifting teaching strategies, etc. to prepare these new types of students for success, rather than just funneling them into vo-tech classes or something. I can't point to it, but I think there's been research that having the 'lower level' kids in AP classes doesn't impact the more advanced students' level of success.

How do you all propose we challenge these non-traditional AP students and prepare them for college?

[Anonymous]

His ratings are trying to get at the quality of the actual education, not stratification by pre-determined class level. Anyone can take a high-IQ kid with post-grad parents and a 200K+ income and have him/her be successful. It takes a good school to improve the lot of someone who does not have all those same advantages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His ratings are trying to get at the quality of the actual education, not stratification by pre-determined class level. Anyone can take a high-IQ kid with post-grad parents and a 200K+ income and have him/her be successful. It takes a good school to improve the lot of someone who does not have all those same advantages.

True, but I am not drinking the AP kool-aid. A lot more goes into making a great school and providing a quality education than sending more money to the College Board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His ratings are trying to get at the quality of the actual education, not stratification by pre-determined class level. Anyone can take a high-IQ kid with post-grad parents and a 200K+ income and have him/her be successful. It takes a good school to improve the lot of someone who does not have all those same advantages.

True, but I am not drinking the AP kool-aid. A lot more goes into making a great school and providing a quality education than sending more money to the College Board.

some kids just aren't cut out for AP. Why keep pushing them to do more than they can do? Taking an AP class, alone, proves nothing.

[Anonymous]

Jay Matthews is a complete idiot who should retire and leave education to the professionals who work with kids on a daily basis. His first "study" of area high schools was a complete joke. He rated George Mason High School in Falls Church City as the best school in the country or something ridiculous like that. Per capita it's one of the richest, smallest and least diverse municipalities in the country. He and his stupid index have been personally responsible for the watering down of the AP curriculum and it's subsequent devaluation by colleges across the country. At a minimum, WaPo needs to move him to the sports desk where he can work on NFL and MLB power rankings.

[Anonymous]

He and his stupid index have been personally responsible for the watering down of the AP curriculum and it's subsequent devaluation by colleges across the country. At a minimum, WaPo needs to move him to the sports desk where he can work on NFL and MLB power rankings.

It's hard to water down the curriculum when there are national exams. Show me the data that reveals that test scores are going down for the 'traditional' AP student in these schools where more kids are encouraged to take AP. I assume that school-wide test scores might go down, because these new students may not have the same skill level. But, I really don't see the impact on the kids who would have taken AP anyways, except that they might be forced to interact with students they would not have otherwise. People just want to maintain the elite status of these programs for the cocktail party circuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He and his stupid index have been personally responsible for the watering down of the AP curriculum and it's subsequent devaluation by colleges across the country. At a minimum, WaPo needs to move him to the sports desk where he can work on NFL and MLB power rankings.

It's hard to water down the curriculum when there are national exams. Show me the data that reveals that test scores are going down for the 'traditional' AP student in these schools where more kids are encouraged to take AP. I assume that school-wide test scores might go down, because these new students may not have the same skill level. But, I really don't see the impact on the kids who would have taken AP anyways, except that they might be forced to interact with students they would not have otherwise. People just want to maintain the elite status of these programs for the cocktail party circuit.

Oops the first paragraph was a quote from a PP. Didn't get the quote in correctly.