ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What people are not getting is that this change would be a big deal. Even if there is preliminary approval in November (which I doubt) there would need to be six months of more of work to plan for it. Rules, faqs, process, directions to the clubs. That would be a six to nine month process. Then there would be final appoval. So even fast tracked it will not be in place for next year. This is not a rando soccer club that can just change everything on the fly. This (both ECNL asnd its governing boards) is a corporate entity that follows process and procedures. This is a long way from done.

I doubt it will ever get done as the votes are not there. Could ECNL something on its own? Sure but they will not. They need to act as mostly one or the next time they want something they will not get it.

As has been previously pointed out, AYSO just moved from SY to BY a couple of years ago. The idea that USYS would get on board when one of its biggest members was dragged across the finish line recently by USYS to comply with USSF and FIFA only to be totally undermined by USYS to help out ECNL (not apples to apples competitor to AYSO, but a competitor league none the less) is a bit fantastical of a proposition.

I can see the argument for mid and low tier competitive soccer and rec soccer to by SY. I have a hard time seeing the logic as one climbs the pyramid into pools that should be feeding YNTs, College and Pro ranks - those are the tiers that most need alignment to international standard and benchmarking.

USSF has not enforced its 2016 shift to BY for many rec programs for just that reason. But what a mess it would create it MLSN and GA were BY and ECNL SY for evaluating results and data when looking at pools for college, pools for YNG, pools for pros. I can’t believe USSF would allow that - it’s bad for the overall game and it’s bad for our ability to compete at the very highest levels.

It sounds like the majority of soccer people understand this would really make things messy but believe SY is better for the MAJORITY of youth players. And changing is worth a one time disruption to get this right.

The primary focus should not be what’s best for the national team pool. As they are very much the minority of overall soccer players.

But I actually don’t think it’s a bad thing and MLSN and GA SHOULD be allowed to stay birth year. Having a one size fits all for so many kids I don’t think is the right approach either.

You understand the soccer pyramid right? You get how it is supposed to function right?

The pyramid is meant to show people what the highest leagues and levels of play in the US are. Look at your precious pyramid the largest sections towards the bottom and make up the vast majority. Maybe you should double check who that is.

Oh. So it’s just a graphic…my bad….

Here I thought it was how our leagues and tiers build on each other with the foundation being grassroots, which creates the entry point for all of soccer. My mistake. I guess the FA’s pyramid is just a graphic too. I wonder why all the US Soccer hatters point to Europe as the model then if they’re just doing graphics instead of foundational funnels too.

When you have enclosed leagues that won’t allow certain clubs into the mix… that is probably one of the bigger issues

You’re just talking to hear yourself talk. You don’t understand the pyramid system, nor do you understand how it works outside of the US.

People want to talk about the problems with US Soccer? It’s uninformed parents, who think they know what they’re talking about, shepherding their kids through this journey.

It’s like asking a blind and deaf person to be a school crossing guard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

What do you mean play with their friends? How many of you kids friend play soccer? Competitive soccer at that?

This is a foolish statement. Most times they don’t even play at the same club. Stop with the nonsense

Just because your own reality is different doesn’t make it true. As a teacher and coach for a variety of sports almost 20 years one thing I know as a fact is kids at the entry level want to play with their friends. That’s why kids like playing high school to play with their classmates not for the super intense competition.

Correct. And how often are highschool teams good? Rarely. Because they play at different levels.

It’s a money making scheme to fuel a money making machine. Accept it

Nobody is talking about HS soccer!

HS soccer doesn’t even go by BY, SY or GY - it goes by enrollment. “Are you in the school? Great! Tryout!” 😂

This is about ECNL. It’s not “play with your friends” soccer. And it’s not “kids drop out before 14” soccer.

If ECNL wants to make a change, I can almost guarantee you it’s not for the kids. It’s for $$$

Egh, maybe. Or it could be emotional individuals at the controls are making emotional decisions because of their resentments and contempt for the outcomes they’ve experienced and are validating their emotional opinions by wrapping them in altruism.

You very well could be right, and ECNL has a grand scheme to make money.

But in my experience, when businesses pivot on a product that is working fine as it is, and introduce chaos with assumptions like “short term pain for long term gain” - it’s seldom turns out the way they expected, and I can honestly say I’ve never seen a product survive it. Introducing chaos is never good when things are working fine.

Yep. Short term pain aka two years will be enough to make people mad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

If the lowest levels are SY, and the highest levels are BY, shouldn't the leagues get to decide for themselves which side of that divide they are on in the pyramid? MLSN, GA, and ECNL should decide for themselves. USSF should make its recommendations and issue guidelines with factors to consider, and then leave it to the leagues to run themselves. That's essentially how the USSF bylaws and policies read. Members must follow bylaws and policies. Player development initiatives are recommendations from the technical committee.

You realize the categorical error you made right? You can’t let the highest levels decide for themselves. The highest levels are where you need the most boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

What do you mean play with their friends? How many of you kids friend play soccer? Competitive soccer at that?

This is a foolish statement. Most times they don’t even play at the same club. Stop with the nonsense

Just because your own reality is different doesn’t make it true. As a teacher and coach for a variety of sports almost 20 years one thing I know as a fact is kids at the entry level want to play with their friends. That’s why kids like playing high school to play with their classmates not for the super intense competition.

Correct. And how often are highschool teams good? Rarely. Because they play at different levels.

It’s a money making scheme to fuel a money making machine. Accept it

Nobody is talking about HS soccer!

HS soccer doesn’t even go by BY, SY or GY - it goes by enrollment. “Are you in the school? Great! Tryout!” 😂

This is about ECNL. It’s not “play with your friends” soccer. And it’s not “kids drop out before 14” soccer.

If ECNL wants to make a change, I can almost guarantee you it’s not for the kids. It’s for $$$

Egh, maybe. Or it could be emotional individuals at the controls are making emotional decisions because of their resentments and contempt for the outcomes they’ve experienced and are validating their emotional opinions by wrapping them in altruism.

You very well could be right, and ECNL has a grand scheme to make money.

But in my experience, when businesses pivot on a product that is working fine as it is, and introduce chaos with assumptions like “short term pain for long term gain” - it’s seldom turns out the way they expected, and I can honestly say I’ve never seen a product survive it. Introducing chaos is never good when things are working fine.

Yep. Short term pain aka two years will be enough to make people mad

Shoot, it hasn’t even happened and people are mad (on all sides). And let’s say it happens, and it’s 2026/2027 change. The advocates are going to be steamed and as will everyone else. Then you add 2 MORE years of chaos…it’s just stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

If the lowest levels are SY, and the highest levels are BY, shouldn't the leagues get to decide for themselves which side of that divide they are on in the pyramid? MLSN, GA, and ECNL should decide for themselves. USSF should make its recommendations and issue guidelines with factors to consider, and then leave it to the leagues to run themselves. That's essentially how the USSF bylaws and policies read. Members must follow bylaws and policies. Player development initiatives are recommendations from the technical committee.

You realize the categorical error you made right? You can’t let the highest levels decide for themselves. The highest levels are where you need the most boundaries.

No error. I simply disagree that USSF should get to decide this for any member. USSF has its own interest here, which may be at odds with the interest of an individual league, even the ones at the top. I'm saying USSF needs to convince them to adopt BY, not force it on them. MLSN would likely be convinced and use BY. ECNL and GA would likely not, and say "we have more interest in the college pathway than international play, but we will happily change to BY when that changes." You're starting with the USSF position that youth national teams are the top priority for the whole system, and the rest of the pyramid can only operate as they wish so long as they don't interfere with that single priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

If the lowest levels are SY, and the highest levels are BY, shouldn't the leagues get to decide for themselves which side of that divide they are on in the pyramid? MLSN, GA, and ECNL should decide for themselves. USSF should make its recommendations and issue guidelines with factors to consider, and then leave it to the leagues to run themselves. That's essentially how the USSF bylaws and policies read. Members must follow bylaws and policies. Player development initiatives are recommendations from the technical committee.

You realize the categorical error you made right? You can’t let the highest levels decide for themselves. The highest levels are where you need the most boundaries.

No error. I simply disagree that USSF should get to decide this for any member. USSF has its own interest here, which may be at odds with the interest of an individual league, even the ones at the top. I'm saying USSF needs to convince them to adopt BY, not force it on them. MLSN would likely be convinced and use BY. ECNL and GA would likely not, and say "we have more interest in the college pathway than international play, but we will happily change to BY when that changes." You're starting with the USSF position that youth national teams are the top priority for the whole system, and the rest of the pyramid can only operate as they wish so long as they don't interfere with that single priority.

I think GA is ynt, Pro, then college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except as already discussed in reality the change only affects 2-3 players per team. ECNL have hinted that they want the decision to be made in time for clubs to prepare for tryouts in the new year so that rosters can be reshuffled as necessary. None of us know yet who is voting in favor of it and who isn't. All we know right now is ECNL has gathered survey responses from clubs who agree will be messy in the short term but better in the long run and ECNL is pushing hard for everyone to change with them.

Dude, do you believe everything you hear?

The better question is why do some here believe nothing that they hear? Everything just keeps being dismissed by the conspiracy theory that there's no change seriously being discussed and it's all made up by crazy parents. Maybe that's true, and maybe our government really is hiding contact with aliens from us, but it's probably a bad bet.

Yes! The fact we are looked at as the crazy ones for listening to someone who knows and is involved in conversations.

You school year deniers can only keep and fingers in your ears going lalalala I can’t hear you for so long before you look like lunatics.

So he is the only one in these conversations? Why hasn’t anyone spoken out about it?

I’m pretty sure the reason he brought it up is because people are emailing the ECNL podcast to get answers. If he wanted ratings like cnn they would just talk about it every week to get listeners as it’s the biggest topic in the youth soccer realm right now.

Also I’m pretty the vice president talked about it in some capacity as well. If your stance is why is no one else talking about it why don’t you email people and ask?

Or because it doesn’t have enough traction as one may think.

ECNL is not bigger than the rest of soccer. They have the biggest platform, but they are not the spokesman for all leagues.

The fact is he only addressed it briefly because obviously people are asking? If he wanted to bring more attention why just mention it briefly for 5 min then never bring it up again the rest of the hour?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

If the lowest levels are SY, and the highest levels are BY, shouldn't the leagues get to decide for themselves which side of that divide they are on in the pyramid? MLSN, GA, and ECNL should decide for themselves. USSF should make its recommendations and issue guidelines with factors to consider, and then leave it to the leagues to run themselves. That's essentially how the USSF bylaws and policies read. Members must follow bylaws and policies. Player development initiatives are recommendations from the technical committee.

You realize the categorical error you made right? You can’t let the highest levels decide for themselves. The highest levels are where you need the most boundaries.

No error. I simply disagree that USSF should get to decide this for any member. USSF has its own interest here, which may be at odds with the interest of an individual league, even the ones at the top. I'm saying USSF needs to convince them to adopt BY, not force it on them. MLSN would likely be convinced and use BY. ECNL and GA would likely not, and say "we have more interest in the college pathway than international play, but we will happily change to BY when that changes." You're starting with the USSF position that youth national teams are the top priority for the whole system, and the rest of the pyramid can only operate as they wish so long as they don't interfere with that single priority.

I think GA is ynt, Pro, then college.

If true, GA should be free to stay BY at their choosing. USSF does have some cards to play. If they want control over the top leagues for national team interests, they could compensate them in some way. Maybe they need to pay them a share of international tournament winnings. Maybe they need to guarantee that all youth national team players will come from their league. There needs to be some benefit to the league to cede some control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

If the lowest levels are SY, and the highest levels are BY, shouldn't the leagues get to decide for themselves which side of that divide they are on in the pyramid? MLSN, GA, and ECNL should decide for themselves. USSF should make its recommendations and issue guidelines with factors to consider, and then leave it to the leagues to run themselves. That's essentially how the USSF bylaws and policies read. Members must follow bylaws and policies. Player development initiatives are recommendations from the technical committee.

You realize the categorical error you made right? You can’t let the highest levels decide for themselves. The highest levels are where you need the most boundaries.

No error. I simply disagree that USSF should get to decide this for any member. USSF has its own interest here, which may be at odds with the interest of an individual league, even the ones at the top. I'm saying USSF needs to convince them to adopt BY, not force it on them. MLSN would likely be convinced and use BY. ECNL and GA would likely not, and say "we have more interest in the college pathway than international play, but we will happily change to BY when that changes." You're starting with the USSF position that youth national teams are the top priority for the whole system, and the rest of the pyramid can only operate as they wish so long as they don't interfere with that single priority.

Where did I say that YNTs are the top priority…I didn’t.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. The idea you propose that the National Federation should have no control or input on the leagues is the most telling part of your post. 1) you don’t understand football and 2) you’re not concern about football.

But with both of your responses so far, I don’t think you’re actually discussing in good faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

That’s the problem and why I think BY for everyone isn’t best. Which is what most soccer operators know as well.

Let GA and MlSN stay birth year I don’t believe we should have a one party system. Let the open market and parents decide what’s best for their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

That’s the problem and why I think BY for everyone isn’t best. Which is what most soccer operators know as well.

Let GA and MlSN stay birth year I don’t believe we should have a one party system. Let the open market and parents decide what’s best for their kids.

…we already have that. Hence the endless “pay-to-play” Bing and Ming

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What people are not getting is that this change would be a big deal. Even if there is preliminary approval in November (which I doubt) there would need to be six months of more of work to plan for it. Rules, faqs, process, directions to the clubs. That would be a six to nine month process. Then there would be final appoval. So even fast tracked it will not be in place for next year. This is not a rando soccer club that can just change everything on the fly. This (both ECNL asnd its governing boards) is a corporate entity that follows process and procedures. This is a long way from done.

I doubt it will ever get done as the votes are not there. Could ECNL something on its own? Sure but they will not. They need to act as mostly one or the next time they want something they will not get it.

As has been previously pointed out, AYSO just moved from SY to BY a couple of years ago. The idea that USYS would get on board when one of its biggest members was dragged across the finish line recently by USYS to comply with USSF and FIFA only to be totally undermined by USYS to help out ECNL (not apples to apples competitor to AYSO, but a competitor league none the less) is a bit fantastical of a proposition.

I can see the argument for mid and low tier competitive soccer and rec soccer to by SY. I have a hard time seeing the logic as one climbs the pyramid into pools that should be feeding YNTs, College and Pro ranks - those are the tiers that most need alignment to international standard and benchmarking.

USSF has not enforced its 2016 shift to BY for many rec programs for just that reason. But what a mess it would create it MLSN and GA were BY and ECNL SY for evaluating results and data when looking at pools for college, pools for YNG, pools for pros. I can’t believe USSF would allow that - it’s bad for the overall game and it’s bad for our ability to compete at the very highest levels.

It sounds like the majority of soccer people understand this would really make things messy but believe SY is better for the MAJORITY of youth players. And changing is worth a one time disruption to get this right.

The primary focus should not be what’s best for the national team pool. As they are very much the minority of overall soccer players.

But I actually don’t think it’s a bad thing and MLSN and GA SHOULD be allowed to stay birth year. Having a one size fits all for so many kids I don’t think is the right approach either.

You understand the soccer pyramid right? You get how it is supposed to function right?

The pyramid is meant to show people what the highest leagues and levels of play in the US are. Look at your precious pyramid the largest sections towards the bottom and make up the vast majority. Maybe you should double check who that is.

Oh. So it’s just a graphic…my bad….

Here I thought it was how our leagues and tiers build on each other with the foundation being grassroots, which creates the entry point for all of soccer. My mistake. I guess the FA’s pyramid is just a graphic too. I wonder why all the US Soccer hatters point to Europe as the model then if they’re just doing graphics instead of foundational funnels too.

You’re assuming what’s best for grass-root kids is what’s best for a national team player. Which we both know isn’t true. Also the food pyramid said cereal was better for you that red meat so obviously a made up pyramid isn’t always the answer either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

That’s the problem and why I think BY for everyone isn’t best. Which is what most soccer operators know as well.

Let GA and MlSN stay birth year I don’t believe we should have a one party system. Let the open market and parents decide what’s best for their kids.

Agreed. US Club and GA are both sanctioned by US SOCCER though.. someone will end up having a fall out with the federation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is trying to align with a dying college sport. They are trying to save college soccer as that is their bread and butter.

NILs will soon ruin college ball and leagues like (GA and MLS NEXT) will be the pathway to YNT, Pro, what’s left of college

That is what ECNL is trying to do with this change.

Even if college soccer dies SY is still better for the majority which is hard for people to wrap their heads around that Rec kids, bronze, silver, insert level of kids just wanting to have fun. The reality is most kids just want to play with friends and won’t play college soccer either. I think only 3-5% of players play any level of college. And only 3-5% of college kids go pro. So you’re talking very much the minority.

The only argument for BY is because that pathway works better for my kid or even let’s say 5000-10000 academy kids that’s still very much the minority.
California alone probably has 100K rec kids (just a guess).

Nobody is making the argument about “what’s better for my kid” except the SY people. They claim every person that argues against the change is a Q1 parent.

The reality is that it just doesn’t matter except at the highest level, where alignment internationally ACTUALLY DOES matter. Then the SY people, the same ones who are obsessed with their kid being given better ECNL opportunities via age-cutoff changes, rush in to say “well ECNL doesn’t really focus on anything but college.” Which is a total load of bull. On the girls side 70%+ of the YNT is ECNL, and even higher % of the pros that were post DA are ECNL. On the boys side, it’s different, but ECNL is definately part of the international vertical.

Nobody cares what Rec does. Rec is community based, it’s run by some leagues, and clubs, but it’s also run by towns, cities and counties. USSF doesn’t force them to adhere to BY because it’s about having fun and being active. BUT! Rec feeds into competitive.

So you get to Challenge or Classic leagues. Some challenge are BY, some are SY. Most Classic leagues are state association led, so they run through USYS and because you have state cups, etc, they need uniformity there. Doesn’t matter if it’s BY or SY thought tbh, but currently they’re BY. Classic is sort of “fun travel.”

Then you get into the NPLs and DPL and the beginning of national leagues. Now in theory, these should be serious competition for kids with big dreams of playing in college and beyond. Used to be the case, no longer is. That said, here is where a serious consideration of International alignment out to be discussed. That said, a lot of these players DO make up the majority of HS teams - so fine, SY makes sense. ECRL is really the tip of the pyramid in this tier.

Then you get to the elite tiers, MLSN, GA and ECNL. These are where the very best kids should be competing. This is where an international alignment ought to mandatory because this small pool of maybe 10k boys and girls out of a 3 million kid pyramid is the feed stock for, now with NIL a reality, professional paid soccer (college is no exception now with NIL and colleges ability to pay athletes).

That’s the problem and why I think BY for everyone isn’t best. Which is what most soccer operators know as well.

Let GA and MlSN stay birth year I don’t believe we should have a one party system. Let the open market and parents decide what’s best for their kids.

Then the clubs with girls in one league and boys in the other will cause some more headaches…

[Anonymous]

People with kid Jan to July want BY Aug to Dec want school year why cant we just say openly we want what’s best for our kids. Because that’s what is true.

If the governing bodies decide to stay with BY or SY who cares? Just pick something based on what’s best for kids and keep it. No flip flopping.