Options for opposing Connecticut Avenue changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

There aren't necessarily- I know it is hard for people who live in MD and drive to their jobs in DC to understand, but people do actually live in DC along this corridor and use Connecticut Avenue for uses other than a daily commute. It is a densely populated street with apartments, houses, businesses and restaurants. A person biking two miles from Dupont circle to Van Ness to go to a restaurant has just as much of an interest in getting around as the person who drives straight through from his driveway in Bethesda to his garage on K Street. Not everyone has to be commuting with a backpack of professional clothes to be using this bike lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

There aren't necessarily- I know it is hard for people who live in MD and drive to their jobs in DC to understand, but people do actually live in DC along this corridor and use Connecticut Avenue for uses other than a daily commute. It is a densely populated street with apartments, houses, businesses and restaurants. A person biking two miles from Dupont circle to Van Ness to go to a restaurant has just as much of an interest in getting around as the person who drives straight through from his driveway in Bethesda to his garage on K Street. Not everyone has to be commuting with a backpack of professional clothes to be using this bike lane.

This. I am considering moving to one of the apartments on Connecticut, and I would use the bike lane ALL THE TIME, to get to work and to get to the library, entertainment, exercise (bike to RCP to jog or hike there), etc etc. It's actually a significant new amenity that is making moving there move up on my list of choices. It may even be one reason I stay in DC instead of going to MoCo. (Doing the ol' move for schools deal.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Yes, this. I used to live near 15th Street and regularly used the bike lane but never for commuting (I worked from home). It absolutely helped me reduce car trips as I was able to bike to get groceries and to pick up my kid at preschool at places that were just a bit to far to walk if I had the groceries or the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:
Enough with besmirching people in the neighborhood. What’s Trumpian is denigrating those who aren’t unstinting supporters of Plan C with ad hominem attacks. You’re trying to divide people by making snide comments about what type of dwelling they live in and/or how much money they might have. Stop it. I was mostly in the Plan C camp but I’m so disgusted with the snark and snideness that’s coming from the main proponents,including ANC reps, I’m starting to question the wisdom of going forward if this is who is driving it.

What is actually Trumpian are people who are opposed to the changes on Connecticut Avenue distorting facts or making up new ones to bolster their arguments.

Back with the projection again

Don’t know if it’s Trumpian but saying biking north on CT Ave is too hard because of the 5000 foot climb is a distortion.

You definitely don't know that hill. It's barely driveable with ice on it.

The street was literally build for a streetcar, which means it has always been relatively flat. Yes, thee is an incline over the span from Woodley Park to Chevy Chase, but there are no "steep hills" anywhere along the Avenue.

Dupont to Woodley Park is a big hill. That's what you say you are trying to connect. That's the hill people are talking about. Jiminy H Cricket. Are any of you all from DC?

This project starts at Calvert and goes north to Legation. DuPont to Woodley? How is that relevant?

The supporters of the project want to take away one sidewalk after Calvert over the bridge over the park to DuPont and make it bike only.

Because the claim has been that it is necessary to connect to it and that there will be a 1067% increase in bicycling commuting if we do so.

The current project does not cover that stretch of CT. Correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

There aren't necessarily- I know it is hard for people who live in MD and drive to their jobs in DC to understand, but people do actually live in DC along this corridor and use Connecticut Avenue for uses other than a daily commute. It is a densely populated street with apartments, houses, businesses and restaurants. A person biking two miles from Dupont circle to Van Ness to go to a restaurant has just as much of an interest in getting around as the person who drives straight through from his driveway in Bethesda to his garage on K Street. Not everyone has to be commuting with a backpack of professional clothes to be using this bike lane.

This. I am considering moving to one of the apartments on Connecticut, and I would use the bike lane ALL THE TIME, to get to work and to get to the library, entertainment, exercise (bike to RCP to jog or hike there), etc etc. It's actually a significant new amenity that is making moving there move up on my list of choices. It may even be one reason I stay in DC instead of going to MoCo. (Doing the ol' move for schools deal.)

Because you don't like walking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

The small problem here is that the proposed bike lane does not continue downtown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

Oh what wicked webs we weave

The claimed 1,067% increase in bicycle commuting is the linchpin of the claims that there will only be 7,000+ extra vehicles on side streets and only an 8 minute increase in travel time. It is also the linchpin behind the claims that bicycling will replace driving instead of walking.

Both of the bolded items are lies that have been repeatedly debunked with citations in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

The small problem here is that the proposed bike lane does not continue downtown.

Which is why a network is being built. Getting to the Calvert Street (Ellington) bridge gets you pretty close to the 15th Street PBL - Calvert Street already has bike lanes and DDOT, at the request of the local ANC, is already studying adding protected bike lanes to Columbia Road and the ANC is after that going to press DDOT to convert the Calvert Street bike lanes to protected bike lanes.

Also the Connecticut Avenue re-design at Dupont Circle is going to add protected bike lanes from the Circle to Columbia Road. So there will be just a couple of small gaps in the network to get downtown by 2025 when the CT Ave bike lanes are finished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

Opponents get one narrow idea in their head and just get stuck on it and lose the ability to think big picture.

No one is expecting massive numbers of people to use CT Ave to bike to work - just because that is what you use the corridor for does not mean that is all it is for or what other people use it for.

The expectation, based on other corridors, is that people biking in this corridor will use the bike lanes to:

-Bike to work downtown
-Bike to the CT Ave Metro Stations to transfer for other trips
-Bike to jobs on CT Ave
-Bike to schools on CT Ave
-Bike to retail and restaurants on CT Ave
-Bike to visit friends who live on or near CT Ave
-Bike to the zoo (which is one of the biggest tourist attractions in DC)
-Bike to Rock Creek Park for exercise or fun
-Bike to houses of worship on CT Ave

Connecticut Avenue is more than just a traffic sewer for people to get to their downtown jobs - it is also a densely populated residential street lined with retail.

The estimate of 3000 bikers per day is based on ridership on other corridors in DC, particularly 15th street which regularly exceeds that number despite not even being part of a connected bike network so bike lanes on CT Ave will almost certainly increase the number of people using 15th Street to bike downtown.

The small problem here is that the proposed bike lane does not continue downtown.

It connects to the lane that goes over the Calvert Street bridge and then from there you can either go over to 15th Street, or down 18th Street or down Columbia Rd to get back to the lanes at the top of Dupont Circle. So, yes, they actually do go downtown. Connectcitu Avenue is the key. And no, they will probably never put lanes over the Taft Bridge, because there isn't room there at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Given no one pays speed camera fines, it is clear there is no appettitie for enforcement. As such, the city has no choice but to change the physical attributes of our public spaces. That is why you see bump outs, speed tables, etc all over the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

There aren't necessarily- I know it is hard for people who live in MD and drive to their jobs in DC to understand, but people do actually live in DC along this corridor and use Connecticut Avenue for uses other than a daily commute. It is a densely populated street with apartments, houses, businesses and restaurants. A person biking two miles from Dupont circle to Van Ness to go to a restaurant has just as much of an interest in getting around as the person who drives straight through from his driveway in Bethesda to his garage on K Street. Not everyone has to be commuting with a backpack of professional clothes to be using this bike lane.

This. I am considering moving to one of the apartments on Connecticut, and I would use the bike lane ALL THE TIME, to get to work and to get to the library, entertainment, exercise (bike to RCP to jog or hike there), etc etc. It's actually a significant new amenity that is making moving there move up on my list of choices. It may even be one reason I stay in DC instead of going to MoCo. (Doing the ol' move for schools deal.)

Because you don't like walking?

The bike lanes will make walking better. And yes, I would often rather bike than walk a mile especially with groceries, or just to get around the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that there are 3000 people along the corridor that are going to ride their bikes downtown in all weather with a backpack full of professional shoes/clothes, shower upon arrival, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. I know DDOT has their projections, but the studies could use a scrub from someone who specializes in human behavior. Of course some young folks and older PBS devotees will do it, but not 3000. So maybe 500 people per day?

I don’t. And if they take the bus or metro on the bad weather days so what?

Well, DC gets 114 days of precipitation. And it’s pretty cold to be on a bike for at least 100 days a year. The ROI on this project seems way overblown. Can’t we just start with speed cameras at every intersection and see if that changes driver behavior? If that doesn’t work, then look at changing the roadway. This just seems like typical DC ready, fire, aim.

Believe it or not, people are also active when it is cold out. Gloves and a face shield make for an easy bike commute!