Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, horses vs. zebras is a very good analogy. Horses is that they will get home safely. Zebras is that they won't. Don't assume zebras.

Right. But sadly, it's not always horses and you can't blindly assume that it will be. I have relatives that wish that they could get back that moment when they could have prevented the zebras that came along and changed their lives forever.

You have to be able to weigh risks, and you can't assign a zero to the possibility that something harmful could happen to a kid out without an adult.

I am not saying that you should always assume it is horses. I am saying that you shouldn't assume it is zebras. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who, knowing what they know now, regret something they did then when they didn't know it. But that's hindsight.

Not to mention the possibility that the 911 caller now regrets having called 911...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Context is everything!

The point is that teaching kids that some people mean harm is not teaching them that every adult means harm. These kids were either unaware that a man was following them, or didn't know what they should do in that situation. If they had picked up their pace to get home faster, we never would have heard about this. How far away from home were they that they were walking for 20+ minutes and weren't home yet?

What should they have done in that situation? Given that the only reason the man was a threat is because he called 911 on them. And really, what on earth is somebody going to do to two kids in broad daylight in the middle of downtown Silver Spring? As you say, context is everything!

The park was less than a mile away from home.

I'm glad you live in a world where nothing bad has ever happened to you or anyone you know. I know quite a few kids to whom very bad things happened because there wasn't an adult around. Unfortunately, it is reality and our job as parents is both to teach and protect our kids.

I am keenly aware of the downfalls of this parenting style and I wouldn't wish those bad effects on any child, anywhere.

The whole point is that there were adults around! (Including, but not limited to, the guy who called 911.) This was downtown Silver Spring at 5 pm on a lovely spring day.

That makes zero sense. There weren't adults who were supervising them around. Obviously.

Have any of the other adults who saw them stepped forward to give a fuller picture of the situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's not forget that the kids approached a stranger and asked to pet his dog. That illustrates their poor judgment and underscores that they aren't old enough to wander around by themselves. Just to be clear: they weren't playing at the park...they were wandering around for 20 mins.

Why is this poor judgment?

And, again -- they weren't supposed to be playing at the park. They were supposed to play at the park and then walk home. It is not possible to walk home without leaving the park.

I don't think they were walking straight home from the park. From the 911 call, it seems like they were wandering around and not walking straight home.

How would the 911 guy know if they were walking straight home? He didn't know where they lived.

He said he saw them wandering back and forth and then go behind a commercial building off the parking lot.

Where and when did he say this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/04/15/listen-to-the-911-call-that-led-cops-to-take-the-free-range-kids-into-custody/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you turned it around and a story came out that two kids had been living alone, scavenging for a few weeks in silver spring? And when the story broke, everyone said to themselves, yeah, I saw those kids, and something looked off, but I have been taught to mind my own business...

That's a little bit playing devils advocate, but that's why I do think the dogwalker was justified. As someone said above, a mom talking to them instead of calling 911 would have been a much easier decision, but a single guy, meh he did ok. The first case should have been thrown out, and the officers reminded of the rights of children to walk in public, such that when a call came in, the officer could have investigated, perhaps assisted them home to verify they had one, and everyone moved on!

Seriously! People are stupid. FWIW, if anyone sees my two girls out by themselves and thinks they look to little to be out alone, please call me if you know me. And if you don't know me and they forget their phone number, please call the police. Or even if you think I'm sketchy, call the police. I'll deal with it. I would much rather have that inconvenience and embarrassment than have my kids be in an unsafe situation because everyone's trained not to care about each other and MYOB.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
JESUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
And I say this as a parent who lets her kids be "free range"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Context is everything!

The point is that teaching kids that some people mean harm is not teaching them that every adult means harm. These kids were either unaware that a man was following them, or didn't know what they should do in that situation. If they had picked up their pace to get home faster, we never would have heard about this. How far away from home were they that they were walking for 20+ minutes and weren't home yet?

What should they have done in that situation? Given that the only reason the man was a threat is because he called 911 on them. And really, what on earth is somebody going to do to two kids in broad daylight in the middle of downtown Silver Spring? As you say, context is everything!

The park was less than a mile away from home.

I'm glad you live in a world where nothing bad has ever happened to you or anyone you know. I know quite a few kids to whom very bad things happened because there wasn't an adult around. Unfortunately, it is reality and our job as parents is both to teach and protect our kids.

I am keenly aware of the downfalls of this parenting style and I wouldn't wish those bad effects on any child, anywhere.

The whole point is that there were adults around! (Including, but not limited to, the guy who called 911.) This was downtown Silver Spring at 5 pm on a lovely spring day.

That makes zero sense. There weren't adults who were supervising them around. Obviously.

So if my child is walking down the street, and there are 100 other adults also on the street, but I am not with my child, then there aren't any adults around?

Do you feel different walking down a street in a populated area, in daylight, vs. walking down a deserted street, in the dark?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Context is everything!

The point is that teaching kids that some people mean harm is not teaching them that every adult means harm. These kids were either unaware that a man was following them, or didn't know what they should do in that situation. If they had picked up their pace to get home faster, we never would have heard about this. How far away from home were they that they were walking for 20+ minutes and weren't home yet?

What should they have done in that situation? Given that the only reason the man was a threat is because he called 911 on them. And really, what on earth is somebody going to do to two kids in broad daylight in the middle of downtown Silver Spring? As you say, context is everything!

The park was less than a mile away from home.

I'm glad you live in a world where nothing bad has ever happened to you or anyone you know. I know quite a few kids to whom very bad things happened because there wasn't an adult around. Unfortunately, it is reality and our job as parents is both to teach and protect our kids.

I am keenly aware of the downfalls of this parenting style and I wouldn't wish those bad effects on any child, anywhere.

The whole point is that there were adults around! (Including, but not limited to, the guy who called 911.) This was downtown Silver Spring at 5 pm on a lovely spring day.

That makes zero sense. There weren't adults who were supervising them around. Obviously.

Have any of the other adults who saw them stepped forward to give a fuller picture of the situation?

I don't know. I suspect that if they have, it's part of CPS investigation and the police investigation (if they do a separate investigation). I'm very hesitant to make judgments about this situation because those sorts of facts are unknown.

[Anonymous]

I'm an immigrant and have lived in the US for over 10 years.

I have to say where I live this kind of lifestyle is a very lonely place for children. Everyone is locked up behind a safe fence, drove safely in family cars.

Every social interaction has to be arranged and chaperoned by adults. Even in subdivisions and neighborhoods neighbors can't just get together and play because it requires a scheduling and arrangements by their parents.

I grew up when children just went outside and roamed around and played together, rode bike for miles or hiked. It was a much more fun and stimulating environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's not forget that the kids approached a stranger and asked to pet his dog. That illustrates their poor judgment and underscores that they aren't old enough to wander around by themselves. Just to be clear: they weren't playing at the park...they were wandering around for 20 mins.

Why is this poor judgment?

And, again -- they weren't supposed to be playing at the park. They were supposed to play at the park and then walk home. It is not possible to walk home without leaving the park.

I don't think they were walking straight home from the park. From the 911 call, it seems like they were wandering around and not walking straight home.

How would the 911 guy know if they were walking straight home? He didn't know where they lived.

He said he saw them wandering back and forth and then go behind a commercial building off the parking lot.

Where and when did he say this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/04/15/listen-to-the-911-call-that-led-cops-to-take-the-free-range-kids-into-custody/

I can't help you if you're daft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Context is everything!

The point is that teaching kids that some people mean harm is not teaching them that every adult means harm. These kids were either unaware that a man was following them, or didn't know what they should do in that situation. If they had picked up their pace to get home faster, we never would have heard about this. How far away from home were they that they were walking for 20+ minutes and weren't home yet?

What should they have done in that situation? Given that the only reason the man was a threat is because he called 911 on them. And really, what on earth is somebody going to do to two kids in broad daylight in the middle of downtown Silver Spring? As you say, context is everything!

The park was less than a mile away from home.

I'm glad you live in a world where nothing bad has ever happened to you or anyone you know. I know quite a few kids to whom very bad things happened because there wasn't an adult around. Unfortunately, it is reality and our job as parents is both to teach and protect our kids.

I am keenly aware of the downfalls of this parenting style and I wouldn't wish those bad effects on any child, anywhere.

The whole point is that there were adults around! (Including, but not limited to, the guy who called 911.) This was downtown Silver Spring at 5 pm on a lovely spring day.

That makes zero sense. There weren't adults who were supervising them around. Obviously.

So if my child is walking down the street, and there are 100 other adults also on the street, but I am not with my child, then there aren't any adults around?

Do you feel different walking down a street in a populated area, in daylight, vs. walking down a deserted street, in the dark?

I'm starting to lose patience with really dumb questions. Really, really dumb. Of course there are adults around. But do you know those adults around? Are there 40 adults around, in which case we can figure at least some of them will notice something if it's unsafe for your kids? Or are there 2 adults around, one who looks drunk/high and the other is jogging with his earphones on and not paying any attention? Those are different scenarios. Of course day/night/populated/unpopulated makes a difference. As do a million other factors in the surroundings, the kids themselves, etc. And you know who's in a better place to judge that than random people on the internet? The actual people who were there. The caller. The cop. Seriously. This isn't that hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and have lived in the US for over 10 years.

I have to say where I live this kind of lifestyle is a very lonely place for children. Everyone is locked up behind a safe fence, drove safely in family cars.

Every social interaction has to be arranged and chaperoned by adults. Even in subdivisions and neighborhoods neighbors can't just get together and play because it requires a scheduling and arrangements by their parents.

I grew up when children just went outside and roamed around and played together, rode bike for miles or hiked. It was a much more fun and stimulating environment.

That is not at all true in my neighborhood or in the one I grew up in. And yet, we still don't let 6yos walk across busy streets by themselves or walk a mile from home without someone appropriately older supervising them. Somehow, my kids still play, spontaneously, outside and with other kids with neighbors. This false dichotomy is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

He said he saw them wandering back and forth and then go behind a commercial building off the parking lot.

Where and when did he say this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/04/15/listen-to-the-911-call-that-led-cops-to-take-the-free-range-kids-into-custody/

I can't help you if you're daft.

You can just type insults, or you can answer the question. The Post article about the 911 call is linked above. Where and when in the 911 call did he say that they were wandering back and forth or going behind a commercial building off the parking lot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm starting to lose patience with really dumb questions. Really, really dumb. Of course there are adults around. But do you know those adults around? Are there 40 adults around, in which case we can figure at least some of them will notice something if it's unsafe for your kids? Or are there 2 adults around, one who looks drunk/high and the other is jogging with his earphones on and not paying any attention? Those are different scenarios. Of course day/night/populated/unpopulated makes a difference. As do a million other factors in the surroundings, the kids themselves, etc. And you know who's in a better place to judge that than random people on the internet? The actual people who were there. The caller. The cop. Seriously. This isn't that hard.

It just doesn't make sense to me. On the one hand, we're supposed to assume that anybody might be a predator out to get us. On the other hand, we're also supposed to assume that some random guy with a dog is a reasonable person who made a rational assessment of the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and have lived in the US for over 10 years.

I have to say where I live this kind of lifestyle is a very lonely place for children. Everyone is locked up behind a safe fence, drove safely in family cars.

Every social interaction has to be arranged and chaperoned by adults. Even in subdivisions and neighborhoods neighbors can't just get together and play because it requires a scheduling and arrangements by their parents.

I grew up when children just went outside and roamed around and played together, rode bike for miles or hiked. It was a much more fun and stimulating environment.

That is not at all true in my neighborhood or in the one I grew up in. And yet, we still don't let 6yos walk across busy streets by themselves or walk a mile from home without someone appropriately older supervising them. Somehow, my kids still play, spontaneously, outside and with other kids with neighbors. This false dichotomy is silly.

But do they just go outside and roam around and play together, ride bikes for miles, or hike? That's the question.

[Anonymous]

Let's also not forget that the 911 called thought the boy was 7....because he's really tiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's also not forget that the 911 called thought the boy was 7....because he's really tiny.

Which makes me think that the 911 caller was not exactly a keen observer. Small ten-year-olds don't look like seven-year-olds; they look like small ten-year-olds.