Northam’s “Anti-Asian, Anti-Immigrant” School Initiative

[Anonymous]

No they aren’t. They quickly learned how to exploit the supposedly more holistic approach to their advantage.

Props to them, but it is still not the type of school a good public school system should be operating. It reeks of ostentation. If Montgomery, Westchester, Nassau, or Santa Clara Counties decided to have a single magnet school like TJ that school would blow TJ out of the water. They just aren’t that desperate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No they aren’t. They quickly learned how to exploit the supposedly more holistic approach to their advantage.

Props to them, but it is still not the type of school a good public school system should be operating. It reeks of ostentation. If Montgomery, Westchester, Nassau, or Santa Clara Counties decided to have a single magnet school like TJ that school would blow TJ out of the water. They just aren’t that desperate.

TJ is ranked as the best high school in the country and has been for many years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of TJ and raise the standards at the neighborhood schools, and the hyper-focus on who is attending one magnet school goes away.

Look at every other school district in the country. They universally try to raise standards. Yet all this inequity remains. The problem isn't TJ. It's largely differentials in parenting. Of course, this will never be addressed until the citizenry takes individual responsibility and stops thinking government can actually solve these problems.

The mentality towards schools is the culprit. Even the new African immigeration knows the value of schools, but many white Americans are obsessed with sports. Regardless of the economic strata. Where else do you have 3 hours of sports after the school? Ridicilous. Where else do you have sport that cheers other sport? And before football gamers, parents making huge meals for the team? And after the game, going to eat again? It is ridicilous, and it is parent-driven. How many times you hear music oscut due to funds, but football team is getting new uniforms? Somehow school's main goal became sports and partying and not education.

[Anonymous]

How would people feel if the gov't got involved in regulating the lack of diversity in professional sports. There is a lack of the normal racial distribution among the population.

Each team should set aside slots for under-represented minorities (in that sport). In that case, Asians & Hispanics would be given a priority for NBA, NFL, MLB over other races.

So not being able to make a jump shot, run fast enough, throw the ball fast enough is irrelevant. They can use other non-objective measurements to get the under-represented minorities in the league.

Are there Asian & Hispanic players that can make it into the professional league without "a quota", YES, but the numbers are still low compare to the actual % of each race represented in society.

Is this what we are looking for - fairness in results? rather than fairness in opportunity?

So instead of trying to fix the problem - fixing poor performing schools (which means taking on the union), lack of parental involvement (which is tougher for single parent homes), lack of access to tutors and technology (socioeconomic issues) - Northam try to legislate fairness.

TJ is a pressure cooker and is not for every kid. Putting a kid into TJ (so the politicians can have better diversity chart) that is not ready of the rigor or pressure, is only setting up the that kid to fail rather than thrive.

This is similar to the Ivy League fallacy. Put a kid into Ivy who is not ready, they will be the bottom of their class and fail to thrive in college. The majority of the African American quota in Ivys are filled by Nigerian immigrants (not native AA that grew up in the states).....so it is really benefiting those who need help. Isn't it interesting to see that all of the diversity data for colleges and even high schools are of in coming class - no one really publish diversity data for the graduation class (because it will show many of the under-represented minorities either dropped out and/or switch schools)

[Anonymous]

TJ is no different than an elite sports center for tennis, basketball, baseball, volleyball......

These center get the best players together and compete which makes them all better.

Now, how about breaking up these elite sports centers so any kid can attend, it will not only make the non-athletic kid feel bad but also bring down the standard of the sports program.

Everyone seems to be ok with travel sports (selecting the elite athletes base on merit) but TJ is like a "travel" academic program, but its not ok?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ is no different than an elite sports center for tennis, basketball, baseball, volleyball......

These center get the best players together and compete which makes them all better.

Now, how about breaking up these elite sports centers so any kid can attend, it will not only make the non-athletic kid feel bad but also bring down the standard of the sports program.

Everyone seems to be ok with travel sports (selecting the elite athletes base on merit) but TJ is like a "travel" academic program, but its not ok?

No one is stopping you from stepping up and using your energy to make travel sports more equitable. It think its a great idea as most minority children can't afford the travel sports in our area. Its good to see others agree that things should be equitable across academics and sports. Way to join the fight!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is no different than an elite sports center for tennis, basketball, baseball, volleyball......

These center get the best players together and compete which makes them all better.

Now, how about breaking up these elite sports centers so any kid can attend, it will not only make the non-athletic kid feel bad but also bring down the standard of the sports program.

Everyone seems to be ok with travel sports (selecting the elite athletes base on merit) but TJ is like a "travel" academic program, but its not ok?

No one is stopping you from stepping up and using your energy to make travel sports more equitable. It think its a great idea as most minority children can't afford the travel sports in our area. Its good to see others agree that things should be equitable across academics and sports. Way to join the fight!

The sports analogies are flawed for so many reasons. Academics open up more opportunities than athletics (the # of professional athletes who earn a living wage relative to the total # of kids who play sports is very small).

And, of course, FCPS isn't operating a magnet school for athletes, just so it can win state championships and look good to scouts. The analogy to travel teams is private classes on the weekends, which families in FCPS so inclined can arrange for their children without expecting county taxpayers to subsidize them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is no different than an elite sports center for tennis, basketball, baseball, volleyball......

These center get the best players together and compete which makes them all better.

Now, how about breaking up these elite sports centers so any kid can attend, it will not only make the non-athletic kid feel bad but also bring down the standard of the sports program.

Everyone seems to be ok with travel sports (selecting the elite athletes base on merit) but TJ is like a "travel" academic program, but its not ok?

No one is stopping you from stepping up and using your energy to make travel sports more equitable. It think its a great idea as most minority children can't afford the travel sports in our area. Its good to see others agree that things should be equitable across academics and sports. Way to join the fight!

The sports analogies are flawed for so many reasons. Academics open up more opportunities than athletics (the # of professional athletes who earn a living wage relative to the total # of kids who play sports is very small).

And, of course, FCPS isn't operating a magnet school for athletes, just so it can win state championships and look good to scouts. The analogy to travel teams is private classes on the weekends, which families in FCPS so inclined can arrange for their children without expecting county taxpayers to subsidize them.

Of course the sports analogy was stupid. I just humored it to make a point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's 2020 and time for TJ to become more inclusive. Throw out the test score gamers and add some creativity and original thinkers into the student body. It will elevate TJ.

Isn't it a bit convoluted to think that people who score highly don't do so because they are creative and original thinkers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 2020 and time for TJ to become more inclusive. Throw out the test score gamers and add some creativity and original thinkers into the student body. It will elevate TJ.

Isn't it a bit convoluted to think that people who score highly don't do so because they are creative and original thinkers?

DP, but not necessarily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 2020 and time for TJ to become more inclusive. Throw out the test score gamers and add some creativity and original thinkers into the student body. It will elevate TJ.

Isn't it a bit convoluted to think that people who score highly don't do so because they are creative and original thinkers?

DP, but not necessarily.

The original post phrases it as if they're mutually exclusive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How would people feel if the gov't got involved in regulating the lack of diversity in professional sports. There is a lack of the normal racial distribution among the population.

Each team should set aside slots for under-represented minorities (in that sport). In that case, Asians & Hispanics would be given a priority for NBA, NFL, MLB over other races.

So not being able to make a jump shot, run fast enough, throw the ball fast enough is irrelevant. They can use other non-objective measurements to get the under-represented minorities in the league.

Are there Asian & Hispanic players that can make it into the professional league without "a quota", YES, but the numbers are still low compare to the actual % of each race represented in society.

Is this what we are looking for - fairness in results? rather than fairness in opportunity?

So instead of trying to fix the problem - fixing poor performing schools (which means taking on the union), lack of parental involvement (which is tougher for single parent homes), lack of access to tutors and technology (socioeconomic issues) - Northam try to legislate fairness.

TJ is a pressure cooker and is not for every kid. Putting a kid into TJ (so the politicians can have better diversity chart) that is not ready of the rigor or pressure, is only setting up the that kid to fail rather than thrive.

This is similar to the Ivy League fallacy. Put a kid into Ivy who is not ready, they will be the bottom of their class and fail to thrive in college. The majority of the African American quota in Ivys are filled by Nigerian immigrants (not native AA that grew up in the states).....so it is really benefiting those who need help. Isn't it interesting to see that all of the diversity data for colleges and even high schools are of in coming class - no one really publish diversity data for the graduation class (because it will show many of the under-represented minorities either dropped out and/or switch schools)

Your professional sports analogy is idiotic. Professional sports exist with the goal to determine a winner and a loser. That is only determined by the final score so the best players make the team. Schools (especially universities) exist for more than just turning out students who achieve high test scores. Schools exist to educate and that includes exposing students to diverse thinking and cultures. Elite universities aim to graduate well rounded students who can interact and lead people of all cultures...not just sit in a room and code or solve mathematical equations all day.

Also, if you want to use the professional sports analogy, then you can argue that in basketball, you don't only pick the top scorers to be on a team. A team consists of scorers, passers, rebounders, and all around leaders. Coaches don't just recruit players based on how many points they score in a game.

There are tons of opportunities for Asians to play basketball. I live in Western Fairfax county and the majority of the players are Asian/Indian. The facilities are top notch and much better that what you would find in urban areas. So don't tell me that Asians don't have the same opportunities to excel in sports...and I'm only using basketball as one example.

I'll say it again - your sports analogy is very flawed.

[Anonymous]

How will the teachers teach the students who are admitted to window dressing diversity in TJ? Will the students take the same math classes? Do the teachers need to provide extra tutoring? The achievement gap has been existing for past 10, 20, or 30 years. Does the governor believe That simply sendIng the black and Hispanic students to TJ could make them perform better in STEM field?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No the point is the majority of AAP kids are fine in the regular classroom AAP is a bloated joke 15-20%+ and again used too much by pushy parents to get away from normal and poor kids

G&T should be actual G&T for the top 1-2% max.

+1

I grew up poor and now have a daughter at TJ. She loves it there. There are a few frustrating things, but overall loves it. In my opinion, TJ should be merit only admissions. There are other solutions to help get better racial diversity.

Just an idea: What if FCPS put in each elementary school with the highest numbers of free/reduced lunch 2 full time teachers with STEM backgrounds whose job was ONLY to run free/reduced cost STEM after school activities? These teachers would work from 3-9pm. For instance, 45 minute math classes grouped on ability, not age, going over more challenging math starting in 2nd grade and material needed for AMC8/Math Counts for older/more advanced kids. These two teachers could do Science Olympiad starting with 3/4 grade in A level and B level for 5/6th grade..Java/Python/ASCL taught for 5/6th grade grouped on advanced ability, scratch for beginner kids. There are many other STEM activities that could be done, like Quiz Bowl or any number of small engineering build projects. Having a student participate in activities like this will build up their stem background, math ability, reading level, and problem solving. Many wealthier FCPS elementary schools have a parent run system like this. However, in a poor elementary school it’s unrealistic to think a household with adults working 2 jobs each can volunteer the hours needed. Many of these parents want this for their kids but lack the stem background to volunteer to run/teach these groups.

The background that these two teachers per school could give these kids would ensure that these kids had a real chance at TJ merit based admissions and the ones admitted could not just succeed, but excel. Simply giving a poor kid a 6 week TJ test prep class in 7th grade isn’t enough in 2020. I know that means investing $200K per school (2 teacher salaries/benefits and say $5K year in fees/supplies ), but how much have other programs like Young Scholars cost? What if this was done at the 10 poorest elementary schools, plus 2 poorest middle schools? The cost is ~$ 2.4 million per year. The long term benefits could be huge.

In my opinion, wealthy parents would love to see schools like TJ torn down. The only kids who got this type education in the 80’s were rich private school kids. Now there are so many specialty high schools, many private schools want to go to no SAT/ACT/AP/ect. for top collage admission. In my opinion,
many public students from schools like TJ outperform their private school counterparts. Please don’t tear down TJ.

You wrongly assume it's about merit. It isn't. It's about test prepping every day for years. That's how Asians beat out everyone else.

OMG, you repeating this nonsense doesnt make it true. Let me guess, all asian families are spending 10k/year on test prep. We could provide test prep for poor families and the results will barely change.

[Anonymous]

Just to be clear, one of the reasons that TJ is beneficial for high-scoring kids is because it represents a place where their creativity will be recognized and appreciated for what it is, allowing them to learn in an environment in which they will thrive. The accusation against "prepping" is cynical in that it essentially argues that, if a kid demonstrates their academic aptitude by performing well on tests, that should be taken as evidence that their original thinking should be dismissed and disregarded. It's actually pretty offensive, if you stop and think about it.

When administrators push to end merit-based admissions in favor of their preferred feudal dynamics, this is the part that they fundamentally don't understand. They view TJ as a success-granting resource which should be leveraged to the benefit of whichever group they want to serve, without realizing why it might have happenned to serve that purpose and who they might end up failing as a result.