OPM Guidance on COVID-19

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would everyone who can't possible take any sick leave do if they were sick with something else? Wouldn't you have to take an advance, LWOP, vacation?

Honestly, probably apply for for the voluntary leave transfer program, but now the program is going to get flooded with requests.

Also, it?s one thing to use up my leave (or advance leave) for my own and my children?s health. But being essentially forced to use leave because of quarantines in order to save older people seems unfair. Why should I burn up my accrued leave because of a virus that isn?t even likely to harm my family? The older people can use their leave to stay home, they have use or lose any way

It?s not just to save older white collar workers. It?s to save the 60 year old admin who is raising her grandkids or the 60 year old cleaner whose family abroad is dependent on her remitting her wages.

The lack of understanding of public health measures is really troubling here, and shows the need for much, much better communication. Mandatory telework and school closures are NOT quarantines. They are social distancing measures to slow the spread of the virus. The reason to slow the spread of the virus is not "just" for 60+ year olds. It's to keep the medical system from being completely overwhelmed ... which would mean that NOBODY could get ANY emergency care. Break your leg? Get cancer? Kid has a bad croup attack and needs medicines? Good luck with that while the hospitals are dealing with thousands of COVID19 patients.

But what is the end goal? It will be months before a vaccine is available- say you implement all these draconian measures to slow the spread- for how long? And who's to say as soon as you turn everyone loose again that the transmissions doesn't just resume again?

NP: The goal is to flatten the infection rate curve. If *everyone* gets this at the same time, our hospitals will be completely overrun with the serious cases. If we can spread out the infections until there is a vaccine and we know more about the virus and treatment, the hospitals are much less likely to have to turn people away. This will also lower the mortality rate.

Also, "Draconian?" Seriously? Working from home is Draconian?

Sure for you, not a big deal.. You get to work in your PJs and eat ice cream. But everything has consequences. Feds work from home ----> small businesses that depend on their business lay off workers. So now people are out of jobs just to slow the spread.

Are you trolling? Health and safety is a higher priority than jobs.

You'd really be ok losing YOUR job over this?

Right. People are going apoplectic about potentially having to take LWOP, which would mean they have a job to come back to, but are fine with lots of folks in the private sector losing their jobs.

It’s not “fine” for people in the private sector to lose jobs, but it is better than dying. Is this in dispute?

The problem is the people losing their jobs are by and large a different demographic than those who will die. You’re asking younger workers to lose pay (or worse their jobs) due to massive school/business shutdowns in order to save (mostly) older people from crippling our healthcare system. As a millennial, I feel like I’ve been screwed so many times. Graduated during a recession then started a family in recent years depleting my leave balance. I don’t want to start a generational war, but I sort of feel like society owes this younger generation instead of asking all of us to take massive financial hits to save the boomers, who by the way have largely voted for policies that have led to high student loans and people having to work in the gig economy without sick leave/health insurance. So I, for one, am willing to quarantine myself if needed to help save lives, but I’m not willing to sacrifice my family’s financial stability.

What a Lord of the Flies way of looking at things. You're disgusting.

or you are disgusting if you can't get off your wallet to help people who are financially impacted.

How do you know I don't? But I'm not the one on here whining about what's owed to me, and how dare people impact my job security to keep old farts from dying.

[Anonymous]

Wow, a Millennial thinks society owes them. What a novel newsflash.

[Anonymous]

Your agency should change those rules under the circumstances.

As for the rest, put on your big girl panties and deal. You should be able to get some work done while kids nap or are otherwise entertained. You can trade shifts with a neighbor watching kids. If schools are closed, you can cheaply find a mother’s helper. You may not make your full 40, but you should be able to get a lot in if you are willing.

Sure, it is easier to say whoa is me and shouldn’t a get paid without making any extra effort or sacrifice, but it’s that level of entitlement that makes people pissed at Feds.

Youre reacting instead of reading the post and it makes you seem silly- what dont you understand about a quarantine? No one is allowed in or out. No mommys helper if daycare is closed, you cant TRADE SHIFTS with a neighbor WTF.

Id rather be entitled than dumb any day.

Not the poster you responded to btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Your agency should change those rules under the circumstances.

As for the rest, put on your big girl panties and deal. You should be able to get some work done while kids nap or are otherwise entertained. You can trade shifts with a neighbor watching kids. If schools are closed, you can cheaply find a mother’s helper. You may not make your full 40, but you should be able to get a lot in if you are willing.

Sure, it is easier to say whoa is me and shouldn’t a get paid without making any extra effort or sacrifice, but it’s that level of entitlement that makes people pissed at Feds.

Youre reacting instead of reading the post and it makes you seem silly- what dont you understand about a quarantine? No one is allowed in or out. No mommys helper if daycare is closed, you cant TRADE SHIFTS with a neighbor WTF.

Id rather be entitled than dumb any day.

Not the poster you responded to btw.

You are wrong. Being told to work from home doesn’t mean that you have been told to quarantine. The SEC has told people to work from home, but they have not to be instructed or encouraged to quarantine and there would be no reason they couldn’t do the things proposed.

[Anonymous]

^^ Obviously employers aren’t going to mandate quarantines, but the government could tell people to.

[Anonymous]

It will have to be quarantines otherwise people wont abide. Half measures wont work in cluster areas.

[Anonymous]

I thought the SEC telework was just limited to personnel on one floor, but looks like it was expanded to entire building - https://wtop.com/government/2020/03/sec-becomes-first-federal-agency-to-ask-dc-employees-to-work-from-home-over-potential-coronavirus-case/

Anyone know?

Also, I forgot to bring my lunch today and have to go over to union station for food. Great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the SEC telework was just limited to personnel on one floor, but looks like it was expanded to entire building - https://wtop.com/government/2020/03/sec-becomes-first-federal-agency-to-ask-dc-employees-to-work-from-home-over-potential-coronavirus-case/

Anyone know?

Also, I forgot to bring my lunch today and have to go over to union station for food. Great.

No change. It is mandatory for one floor, encouraged for other floors. There are also plenty of options away from union station if you really don’t want to be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would everyone who can't possible take any sick leave do if they were sick with something else? Wouldn't you have to take an advance, LWOP, vacation?

Honestly, probably apply for for the voluntary leave transfer program, but now the program is going to get flooded with requests.

Also, it?s one thing to use up my leave (or advance leave) for my own and my children?s health. But being essentially forced to use leave because of quarantines in order to save older people seems unfair. Why should I burn up my accrued leave because of a virus that isn?t even likely to harm my family? The older people can use their leave to stay home, they have use or lose any way

It?s not just to save older white collar workers. It?s to save the 60 year old admin who is raising her grandkids or the 60 year old cleaner whose family abroad is dependent on her remitting her wages.

The lack of understanding of public health measures is really troubling here, and shows the need for much, much better communication. Mandatory telework and school closures are NOT quarantines. They are social distancing measures to slow the spread of the virus. The reason to slow the spread of the virus is not "just" for 60+ year olds. It's to keep the medical system from being completely overwhelmed ... which would mean that NOBODY could get ANY emergency care. Break your leg? Get cancer? Kid has a bad croup attack and needs medicines? Good luck with that while the hospitals are dealing with thousands of COVID19 patients.

But what is the end goal? It will be months before a vaccine is available- say you implement all these draconian measures to slow the spread- for how long? And who's to say as soon as you turn everyone loose again that the transmissions doesn't just resume again?

NP: The goal is to flatten the infection rate curve. If *everyone* gets this at the same time, our hospitals will be completely overrun with the serious cases. If we can spread out the infections until there is a vaccine and we know more about the virus and treatment, the hospitals are much less likely to have to turn people away. This will also lower the mortality rate.

Also, "Draconian?" Seriously? Working from home is Draconian?

Sure for you, not a big deal.. You get to work in your PJs and eat ice cream. But everything has consequences. Feds work from home ----> small businesses that depend on their business lay off workers. So now people are out of jobs just to slow the spread.

Are you trolling? Health and safety is a higher priority than jobs.

You'd really be ok losing YOUR job over this?

Right. People are going apoplectic about potentially having to take LWOP, which would mean they have a job to come back to, but are fine with lots of folks in the private sector losing their jobs.

It’s not “fine” for people in the private sector to lose jobs, but it is better than dying. Is this in dispute?

The problem is the people losing their jobs are by and large a different demographic than those who will die. You’re asking younger workers to lose pay (or worse their jobs) due to massive school/business shutdowns in order to save (mostly) older people from crippling our healthcare system. As a millennial, I feel like I’ve been screwed so many times. Graduated during a recession then started a family in recent years depleting my leave balance. I don’t want to start a generational war, but I sort of feel like society owes this younger generation instead of asking all of us to take massive financial hits to save the boomers, who by the way have largely voted for policies that have led to high student loans and people having to work in the gig economy without sick leave/health insurance. So I, for one, am willing to quarantine myself if needed to help save lives, but I’m not willing to sacrifice my family’s financial stability.

My grandparents were born in 1916/1917 before the Spanish flu hit. No vaccines and plenty of quarantining. Dozens of their peers lost parents, aunts, uncles, siblings. They experienced the Stock Market Crash of 1929 as kids and World War II when starting their own families. They had it rough and not once did I hear them say they were owed anything. They saw the greater need for society in the sacrifices they were asked to make. We have lost that greater sense of community as a society. Maybe one silver lining is that this pandemic shows our vulnerability and may help bring that cohesion back. Many of us Gen-Xers started our careers during a recession too. You aren't the first in line for having setbacks. I think we need strong fiscal policy to ensure vulnerable citizens aren't devastated by this pandemic. But your calculating way of minimizing other people's lives is grotesque. I have no doubt that by the time your are 45, you will reread those words and shudder.

Use this as an opportunity to agitate for the things society needs - universal health care, sick leave and maternity leave. Your current approach is equivalent to a death panel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your agency should change those rules under the circumstances.

As for the rest, put on your big girl panties and deal. You should be able to get some work done while kids nap or are otherwise entertained. You can trade shifts with a neighbor watching kids. If schools are closed, you can cheaply find a mother’s helper. You may not make your full 40, but you should be able to get a lot in if you are willing.

Sure, it is easier to say whoa is me and shouldn’t a get paid without making any extra effort or sacrifice, but it’s that level of entitlement that makes people pissed at Feds.

Youre reacting instead of reading the post and it makes you seem silly- what dont you understand about a quarantine? No one is allowed in or out. No mommys helper if daycare is closed, you cant TRADE SHIFTS with a neighbor WTF.

Id rather be entitled than dumb any day.

Not the poster you responded to btw.

You are wrong. Being told to work from home doesn’t mean that you have been told to quarantine. The SEC has told people to work from home, but they have not to be instructed or encouraged to quarantine and there would be no reason they couldn’t do the things proposed.

It would be very irresponsible of you to keep interacting with people, it completely defeats the point. Good grief. You're going to have to figure this out on your own- not bringing new people into your house that you could infect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your agency should change those rules under the circumstances.

As for the rest, put on your big girl panties and deal. You should be able to get some work done while kids nap or are otherwise entertained. You can trade shifts with a neighbor watching kids. If schools are closed, you can cheaply find a mother’s helper. You may not make your full 40, but you should be able to get a lot in if you are willing.

Sure, it is easier to say whoa is me and shouldn’t a get paid without making any extra effort or sacrifice, but it’s that level of entitlement that makes people pissed at Feds.

Youre reacting instead of reading the post and it makes you seem silly- what dont you understand about a quarantine? No one is allowed in or out. No mommys helper if daycare is closed, you cant TRADE SHIFTS with a neighbor WTF.

Id rather be entitled than dumb any day.

Not the poster you responded to btw.

You are wrong. Being told to work from home doesn’t mean that you have been told to quarantine. The SEC has told people to work from home, but they have not to be instructed or encouraged to quarantine and there would be no reason they couldn’t do the things proposed.

It would be very irresponsible of you to keep interacting with people, it completely defeats the point. Good grief. You're going to have to figure this out on your own- not bringing new people into your house that you could infect.

Then why didn’t they mandate a quarantine? Or even recommend it? Or even require people to telework outside one particular floor?

You seem to think you know more about what should be done than the experts.

[Anonymous]

Sure. But then it would be fine for people to take LWOP so that no one dies, right?

LWOP has repeatedly been presented as a non-option because the hardships it would prevent to some, but yet posters are very cavalier about the job prospects of others, who would face similar and in many case worse hardships.

I think federal government should mandate paid sick leave during a public health emergency. Businesses can apply for aid if they don't make sufficient profits to cover the pay. Hard choices are going to have to be made. I read a horrific Twitter account of what's going on in Italy's overwhelmed hospitals:

"Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed."

https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/1237142891077697538

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would everyone who can't possible take any sick leave do if they were sick with something else? Wouldn't you have to take an advance, LWOP, vacation?

Honestly, probably apply for for the voluntary leave transfer program, but now the program is going to get flooded with requests.

Also, it?s one thing to use up my leave (or advance leave) for my own and my children?s health. But being essentially forced to use leave because of quarantines in order to save older people seems unfair. Why should I burn up my accrued leave because of a virus that isn?t even likely to harm my family? The older people can use their leave to stay home, they have use or lose any way

It?s not just to save older white collar workers. It?s to save the 60 year old admin who is raising her grandkids or the 60 year old cleaner whose family abroad is dependent on her remitting her wages.

The lack of understanding of public health measures is really troubling here, and shows the need for much, much better communication. Mandatory telework and school closures are NOT quarantines. They are social distancing measures to slow the spread of the virus. The reason to slow the spread of the virus is not "just" for 60+ year olds. It's to keep the medical system from being completely overwhelmed ... which would mean that NOBODY could get ANY emergency care. Break your leg? Get cancer? Kid has a bad croup attack and needs medicines? Good luck with that while the hospitals are dealing with thousands of COVID19 patients.

But what is the end goal? It will be months before a vaccine is available- say you implement all these draconian measures to slow the spread- for how long? And who's to say as soon as you turn everyone loose again that the transmissions doesn't just resume again?

NP: The goal is to flatten the infection rate curve. If *everyone* gets this at the same time, our hospitals will be completely overrun with the serious cases. If we can spread out the infections until there is a vaccine and we know more about the virus and treatment, the hospitals are much less likely to have to turn people away. This will also lower the mortality rate.

Also, "Draconian?" Seriously? Working from home is Draconian?

Sure for you, not a big deal.. You get to work in your PJs and eat ice cream. But everything has consequences. Feds work from home ----> small businesses that depend on their business lay off workers. So now people are out of jobs just to slow the spread.

Are you trolling? Health and safety is a higher priority than jobs.

You'd really be ok losing YOUR job over this?

Right. People are going apoplectic about potentially having to take LWOP, which would mean they have a job to come back to, but are fine with lots of folks in the private sector losing their jobs.

It’s not “fine” for people in the private sector to lose jobs, but it is better than dying. Is this in dispute?

The problem is the people losing their jobs are by and large a different demographic than those who will die. You’re asking younger workers to lose pay (or worse their jobs) due to massive school/business shutdowns in order to save (mostly) older people from crippling our healthcare system. As a millennial, I feel like I’ve been screwed so many times. Graduated during a recession then started a family in recent years depleting my leave balance. I don’t want to start a generational war, but I sort of feel like society owes this younger generation instead of asking all of us to take massive financial hits to save the boomers, who by the way have largely voted for policies that have led to high student loans and people having to work in the gig economy without sick leave/health insurance. So I, for one, am willing to quarantine myself if needed to help save lives, but I’m not willing to sacrifice my family’s financial stability.

I am so sick and tired of millennial kids saying this. Nobody owes you nothing dumba$$. Make your own life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who can telework it just makes sense to provide, even encourage, it. It would leave public transit and other services available for those who need to go in while hopefully flattening the infection curve at least a bit.

I agree. The less people moving around the better. If the government. can keep the infection curve low, then you reduce the need for more extreme measures that could result in people taking time off without pay or being laid-off.

One of the reasons the federal government crated telework programs was so that the government could continue to function during a pandemic. But if OPM keeps requiring federal employees to expose themselves by commuting. being together in a building, etc, then it increases the risk that large numbers of federal workers will be too sick to telework, which could result in a disruption of services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would everyone who can't possible take any sick leave do if they were sick with something else? Wouldn't you have to take an advance, LWOP, vacation?

Honestly, probably apply for for the voluntary leave transfer program, but now the program is going to get flooded with requests.

Also, it?s one thing to use up my leave (or advance leave) for my own and my children?s health. But being essentially forced to use leave because of quarantines in order to save older people seems unfair. Why should I burn up my accrued leave because of a virus that isn?t even likely to harm my family? The older people can use their leave to stay home, they have use or lose any way

It?s not just to save older white collar workers. It?s to save the 60 year old admin who is raising her grandkids or the 60 year old cleaner whose family abroad is dependent on her remitting her wages.

The lack of understanding of public health measures is really troubling here, and shows the need for much, much better communication. Mandatory telework and school closures are NOT quarantines. They are social distancing measures to slow the spread of the virus. The reason to slow the spread of the virus is not "just" for 60+ year olds. It's to keep the medical system from being completely overwhelmed ... which would mean that NOBODY could get ANY emergency care. Break your leg? Get cancer? Kid has a bad croup attack and needs medicines? Good luck with that while the hospitals are dealing with thousands of COVID19 patients.

But what is the end goal? It will be months before a vaccine is available- say you implement all these draconian measures to slow the spread- for how long? And who's to say as soon as you turn everyone loose again that the transmissions doesn't just resume again?

NP: The goal is to flatten the infection rate curve. If *everyone* gets this at the same time, our hospitals will be completely overrun with the serious cases. If we can spread out the infections until there is a vaccine and we know more about the virus and treatment, the hospitals are much less likely to have to turn people away. This will also lower the mortality rate.

Also, "Draconian?" Seriously? Working from home is Draconian?

Sure for you, not a big deal.. You get to work in your PJs and eat ice cream. But everything has consequences. Feds work from home ----> small businesses that depend on their business lay off workers. So now people are out of jobs just to slow the spread.

Are you trolling? Health and safety is a higher priority than jobs.

You'd really be ok losing YOUR job over this?

Right. People are going apoplectic about potentially having to take LWOP, which would mean they have a job to come back to, but are fine with lots of folks in the private sector losing their jobs.

It’s not “fine” for people in the private sector to lose jobs, but it is better than dying. Is this in dispute?

The problem is the people losing their jobs are by and large a different demographic than those who will die. You’re asking younger workers to lose pay (or worse their jobs) due to massive school/business shutdowns in order to save (mostly) older people from crippling our healthcare system. As a millennial, I feel like I’ve been screwed so many times. Graduated during a recession then started a family in recent years depleting my leave balance. I don’t want to start a generational war, but I sort of feel like society owes this younger generation instead of asking all of us to take massive financial hits to save the boomers, who by the way have largely voted for policies that have led to high student loans and people having to work in the gig economy without sick leave/health insurance. So I, for one, am willing to quarantine myself if needed to help save lives, but I’m not willing to sacrifice my family’s financial stability.

I am so sick and tired of millennial kids saying this. Nobody owes you nothing dumba$$. Make your own life.

It's shocking to see this level of egotism displayed in public, even if it's anonymous. They reinvented victimhood and took it to a whole new level.