The Importance of Warmth for your Baby

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need more educated midwives and doulas for families who want better options. Doctors can be helpful for high-risk pregnancies. Most of us are not high-risk.

The problem is that labor can turn high-risk on a dime. That's why you have all the EVIDENCE-BASED backup there, at your hospital, with an MD available. In the DC area there are PLENTY of places you can have a hospital birth with a midwife, and have everything right there in case things go wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need more educated midwives and doulas for families who want better options. Doctors can be helpful for high-risk pregnancies. Most of us are not high-risk.

The problem is that labor can turn high-risk on a dime. That's why you have all the EVIDENCE-BASED backup there, at your hospital, with an MD available. In the DC area there are PLENTY of places you can have a hospital birth with a midwife, and have everything right there in case things go wrong.

Actually that's not necessarily evidence-based.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need more educated midwives and doulas for families who want better options. Doctors can be helpful for high-risk pregnancies. Most of us are not high-risk.

The problem is that labor can turn high-risk on a dime. That's why you have all the EVIDENCE-BASED backup there, at your hospital, with an MD available. In the DC area there are PLENTY of places you can have a hospital birth with a midwife, and have everything right there in case things go wrong.

Actually that's not necessarily evidence-based.

What, hospitals in general? Knock yourself out; have an unassisted childbirth or a homebirth, and enjoy your sharply increased risk of neonatal death & brain injury. You know you'll be running to the ER once something goes wrong with your own body, the height of selfishness.

The rest of us will go to hospitals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need more educated midwives and doulas for families who want better options. Doctors can be helpful for high-risk pregnancies. Most of us are not high-risk.

The problem is that labor can turn high-risk on a dime. That's why you have all the EVIDENCE-BASED backup there, at your hospital, with an MD available. In the DC area there are PLENTY of places you can have a hospital birth with a midwife, and have everything right there in case things go wrong.

Actually that's not necessarily evidence-based.

What, hospitals in general? Knock yourself out; have an unassisted childbirth or a homebirth, and enjoy your sharply increased risk of neonatal death & brain injury. You know you'll be running to the ER once something goes wrong with your own body, the height of selfishness.

The rest of us will go to hospitals.

It's a nice sunny day, so no, I'm not up for another debate on the selfishness of people who, having weighed all the evidence, prefer the risks of a home birth to the risks of a hospital birth, or on whether your study showing these risks vs. benefits is better/more applicable/more reputable than my study showing those risks vs. benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

People who believe cold bottles are good for newborn babies should absolutely exercise their parental authority, and do cold bottles. Several posters have already made this abundantly clear.

If, however, these parents find they're having trouble getting their babies to sleep at night, they may want to reconsider, and give the warmed bottle a try. I find it fascinating that prominent pediatricians have found that optimal temperature control is an important factor in the healthy development of babies. -OP

They do, do they? Could you provide two examples, please, OP?

I think OP is relying on advice from pediatricians publishing back in the mid-1900s -- advice which has since been linked to increase in the rate of SIDS. Peter Wollf and Marshall Klaus were pioneering physicians in their fields in the early 1960s, but there has been a lot of information since then.

Perhaps OP should read it, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need more educated midwives and doulas for families who want better options. Doctors can be helpful for high-risk pregnancies. Most of us are not high-risk.

The problem is that labor can turn high-risk on a dime. That's why you have all the EVIDENCE-BASED backup there, at your hospital, with an MD available. In the DC area there are PLENTY of places you can have a hospital birth with a midwife, and have everything right there in case things go wrong.

Actually that's not necessarily evidence-based.

What, hospitals in general? Knock yourself out; have an unassisted childbirth or a homebirth, and enjoy your sharply increased risk of neonatal death & brain injury. You know you'll be running to the ER once something goes wrong with your own body, the height of selfishness.

The rest of us will go to hospitals.

It's a nice sunny day, so no, I'm not up for another debate on the selfishness of people who, having weighed all the evidence, prefer the risks of a home birth to the risks of a hospital birth, or on whether your study showing these risks vs. benefits is better/more applicable/more reputable than my study showing those risks vs. benefits.

I'd respect you a LOT more if you admitted that homebirth has greater risks than hospital birth, but you perceive the benefits of homebirth to outweigh them.

As it stands, the actual research pretty much unequivocably shows now that homebirth "is associated with a more than twofold increased risk of perinatal death (1–2 in 1,000) and a threefold increased risk of neonatal seizures or serious neurologic dysfunction (0.4–0.6 in 1,000)."

https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Obstetric-Practice/Planned-Home-Birth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'd respect you a LOT more if you admitted that homebirth has greater risks than hospital birth, but you perceive the benefits of homebirth to outweigh them.

As it stands, the actual research pretty much unequivocably shows now that homebirth "is associated with a more than twofold increased risk of perinatal death (1–2 in 1,000) and a threefold increased risk of neonatal seizures or serious neurologic dysfunction (0.4–0.6 in 1,000)."

https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Obstetric-Practice/Planned-Home-Birth

Argue about it with yourself.

[Anonymous]

Posters on this thread are confusing a lot of things. In general, "absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence". This means that just because there is no harm that's been demonstrated from cold formula and no benefit that's been demonstrated from warm formula doesn't mean there is no harm or no benefit. Just that there is no evidence of either. You can extrapolate from this, since formula has been around for a while, that it's unlikely that any harm or benefit is substantial or it would have been observed by now...but that is not a scientific fact, just sort of a clinical judgment.

At the end of the day, I don't really care what people do. But you should all at least be arguing about the same thing.

-- PhD scientist who mixed room temp water with powder formula for her DD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd respect you a LOT more if you admitted that homebirth has greater risks than hospital birth, but you perceive the benefits of homebirth to outweigh them.

As it stands, the actual research pretty much unequivocably shows now that homebirth "is associated with a more than twofold increased risk of perinatal death (1–2 in 1,000) and a threefold increased risk of neonatal seizures or serious neurologic dysfunction (0.4–0.6 in 1,000)."

https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidance-and-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Obstetric-Practice/Planned-Home-Birth

Argue about it with yourself.

Sorry, you can't go around saying ridiculous things like hospitals are dangerous and not evidence-based, and expect not to be confronted with actual facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Posters on this thread are confusing a lot of things. In general, "absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence". This means that just because there is no harm that's been demonstrated from cold formula and no benefit that's been demonstrated from warm formula doesn't mean there is no harm or no benefit. Just that there is no evidence of either. You can extrapolate from this, since formula has been around for a while, that it's unlikely that any harm or benefit is substantial or it would have been observed by now...but that is not a scientific fact, just sort of a clinical judgment.

At the end of the day, I don't really care what people do. But you should all at least be arguing about the same thing.

-- PhD scientist who mixed room temp water with powder formula for her DD

Actually this all started when OP made some pretty grandiose evidentiary claims about formula temperature, which she has completely failed to back up. I posted upthread a reference to a study indicating that the temperature of feeds makes no difference (they all raise body temperature as the baby metabolizes the food); and that heating milk in the NICU could cause harm (contamination). I think it's pretty conclusive that there's NO evidence of the harm of cold/room temperature formula, contrary to OP's claims; therefore OP is full of it. If RT formula were hurting babies, we'd know that. But in point of fact, the actual research on hypothermia and preemies focuses on things like wrapping babies in plastic and keeping the room warm, not the temp of the formula.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I am sure many other alternative medical traditions believe the same. Warmth is important in the healing process of both mom and baby. My infant and child rearing habits were very much informed by the practises of my own North Indian culture + reinforced by my pediatricians here, who are Europeans When I had my first child, my mother and sister came from India to take care of me. Mom is very knowledgeable about ayurvedic practices and was very upset that I was given ice-chips to suck on during delivery and kept in a cold room at the hospital. She was horrified by this and said that it is very bad for both the mom and the child to be exposed to cold because the body has undergone major trauma and heat will help preserve energy as well as heal. Also, the child was in a very warm environment in the womb and it takes a long time before they have the capability to warm themselves. She brought special home cooked meals (especially for new moms) at the hospital and after less than 24 hours, DH and my mom whisked me and DC, home.

At home, DC and I stayed in a room that was kept warmer than normal. Both of us, DC and I, were massaged with warm medicated oil several times a day (yes - 4-5 times) and kept very warm. Our heads and feet were also kept covered at all times. We were given a warm medicated bath the first day home and after that for several days we were given sponge bathes only. Later, we moved back to a daily warm bath for DC and warm shower for me. All the vents were closed to prevent cold air seeping in our room. All the food and drink for me was made specifically to heal me, and to produce milk, and to prevent colic in the baby who was EBF. DC and I were in seclusion for 40-50 days, and we were seeing only my mom, sister and DH. My mom and sister were also in seclusion along with me, though my DH went to work and was doing all the groceries and stuff. I think this reduced the chances of me and the baby catching an infection. My only job was to nurse the baby on demand, massage her, give her a bath, get massaged several times by either my mom or my sister, take a warm shower, watch TV, read books, and sleep all the time. I was not even allowed to go on the treadmill because my mom said that my joints were weak after birth and will need to become stronger through nutrition before I could start exercising in earnest.

For 50 days, I did not lift my fingers and only after my bleeding had stopped completely was I allowed to start doing light chores in the house. After 6 weeks, we had a ceremony (lunch and prayers at home), in which the baby was introduced to limited number of relatives and friends, and my seclusion was lifted. Infant massage, mom massage, layered clothing, keeping head and feet covered, special food/drink for mom, prevention from exposure, lots of rest - these practises were inbuilt in mom and baby care in my culture among all classes of people. I did daily infant and child massages for both of my kids for many years after that. It was a relaxing and very enjoyable experience for everyone. Even now, every once in a while my grown daughter who is now college will come home for several days and along with her favorite foods she wants a daily hot oil massage based on her constitutional type.

My mom blames the lack of proper care of mom and infant for a host of problems - PPD, colic, autism, dullness of intellect, stomach/GI problems, food allergies, thyroid issues, reproductive problems, joint pains, migraines, osteoporosis, diabetes, premature aging, vision problem, heart problems. I don't know how medically true all of this is but till date I have not found any downside to her help and care of me.

PP, I’m glad you found this to be wonderful and nurturing and loved the experience, but I was claustrophobic just reading it... secluded with a newborn in a hot room and not allowed to be out or do anything for nearly 2 months?! I don’t think I could take it. I was going stir crazy pretty fast, and was out walking with my newborn in a sling within 48 hours after I delivered, with both kids. One was a winter baby. He’s a happy, active toddler now... the cold air doesn’t seem to have hurt him any. TBD with #2, she’s still an infant.

Good for you. Whatever works for you is great. I am well aware that my experience was not that of everyone else here.

Since it was my tradition, something that everyone followed in my family, it was supported and planned for, and it was something I welcomed and expected. I liked being at home with my mom and sister and getting all that rest and I was lucky that circumstances afforded me that chance. I did not mind the heat as during those days my body somehow craved it.I loved the heat, and even now I am happiest at 72 degrees. I liked not meeting people, I liked sitting and gossiping with my mom and sister, I liked just holding my baby, napping, catching up on things and I liked learning how to take care of my baby with their expert guidance. Maybe it is my feeble genes but frankly I did not feel 100% fit until my 6 weeks were over. I see women who are up and about and all I can only think that they are very strong and capable.

I am sure it would not have been the same experience if it was not my mom and some random person. (Thankfully, traditionally it is the girl's mom who comes to help and not the mother-in-law. The MIL comes after the girl's mom leaves if needed) . I truly was not ready to do anything for the first 40 days. My kid was nursing every 1-2 hours and perpetually sleepy. I felt exhausted just from nursing and recovering from childbirth, even with all the help I was getting. The best thing was that no one at home expected me to start being "productive" and my rest and recovery was paramount to them. Having my mom and sis there, I did not get anxious, I did not get depressed, I was never alone, I could sleep knowing that the baby was with mom or sis, food would be made, house would be cleaned etc. After a couple of weeks, we were up and about in the house, but we were not receiving anyone. By the time, I went back for my 6 weekly checkup with my OB/Gyn - frankly, there was nothing to resolve. Why do they make you wait for 6 weeks? All the problems I would have freaked out about, happened in the first 6 weeks, and the OB/GYN was not there to see me for these. Thankfully, my mom and sis were there to guide me through that - my bleeding, clots, stitches, the let down of my milk, my kid latching on, caring for the baby - because I had 24/7 help from the people who loved me the most.

I really don't care if people give cold milk, soy, formula, rice cereal to their newborn babies or are in a cold room or go on a vacation two days after birth. Seriously, I have seen how strong their moms are and how mentally and physically capable they are to get back to normal routine in 2-3 days, without any help, so obviously some people and their kids are hardier. I just want to point out that in some ancient medical traditions, mothers and babies are shielded from cold, work, loneliness till they are recovered (end of bleeding) and nutrition, rest, companionship care and warmth is provided for the mom and baby.

[Anonymous]

I did a quick google search and found this gem about ayurvedic postpartum practices. Very similar to whatever my mom and sis did for me. I hope that these home traditions will not die down soon. I have been the lucky recipient of this knowledge, but have not had the occasion to make it my own to pay it forward.

https://www.banyanbotanicals.com/info/blog-the-banyan-insight/details/birthing-ayurveda-postpartum-nurturing-the-mother

[Anonymous]

American childbirth is nothing to be proud of. Our obstetricians have not been trained in the age old art of waiting. Allowing nature to take its course is something they are "too busy" to do. They're too "overqualified" to sit down and do nothing. That's one reason why they hate the idea of homebirth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:American childbirth is nothing to be proud of. Our obstetricians have not been trained in the age old art of waiting. Allowing nature to take its course is something they are "too busy" to do. They're too "overqualified" to sit down and do nothing. That's one reason why they hate the idea of homebirth.

Totally! That and their arbitrary preference for live babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American childbirth is nothing to be proud of. Our obstetricians have not been trained in the age old art of waiting. Allowing nature to take its course is something they are "too busy" to do. They're too "overqualified" to sit down and do nothing. That's one reason why they hate the idea of homebirth.

Totally! That and their arbitrary preference for live babies.

Your fear-mongering is unnecessary. We're not in the dark ages any more. Childbirth is not an illness.