Sidwell throttling down college admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW - The private boarding schools are in deliberation about withdrawing from APs.

Andover grad here. We've long not followed the AP curriculum. Courses might prepare kids for the AP exam, but it's never the express purpose. I think Exeter doesn't participate in the AP program either. This was the case when I was at Andover from 2001-2005, and I think it's still the case.

Regardless of class title or whatnot, do most kids sit for the AP tests if they know if will help with their Freshman college coursework?

PP here. Some do and some don't. I only took 1 AP exam. I think kids who took advanced math and science classes were more likely to take the requisite AP courses.

In any case, while it helps with getting a head start on credits, it doesn't help with college admissions from Andover. What matters are your grades in the 500 and 600 level courses, which are equivalent to college sophomore or even major-specific courses (so well beyond AP).

And to the PP who said no college professor thinks high schoolers can perform a college level: Let me put it to you this way. When I started in college, my English professor told me, "I don't have anything I can really teach you. You've already mastered everything I teach in this course." She attributed that to where I went to high school. My philosophy professor sophomore year said that, in her 25 years of experience teaching at the collegiate level, kids from Andover and Exeter come in knowing most of the freshman and sophomore curriculum.

I'm not trying to brag; I'm just pointing out that one of the reasons these schools do so well in college admissions is that they essentially act as junior colleges.

They why wouldn't you test out of this? You could have been taking 200, 300, or 400 level classes in college, doing internships, going on 1-2 study abroads, etc. Or do kids like to read Dante for the third time and get easy As for two years?

Grad schools look at your previous transcript and let you move beyond the pre-reqs.

There was no way to test out of it. I did study abroad for a semester in junior year. I wasn't able to test out of a lot of courses in college because I took a fairly specialized curriculum. I also couldn't have moved beyond pre-reqs for grad school, given that it was PhD coursework.

So your university would not have taken 4 or 5s on AP subject tests at all? So you spent freshman and sophomore year of university doing the same things as you did in high school? If you knew that going in sounds like that is what you deliberately chose to do. Other kids would have chosen to go to colleges that let them place out of undergrad pre-reqs and done 2-3 majors or maybe tacked on an MS/MA Jr or senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW - The private boarding schools are in deliberation about withdrawing from APs.

Andover grad here. We've long not followed the AP curriculum. Courses might prepare kids for the AP exam, but it's never the express purpose. I think Exeter doesn't participate in the AP program either. This was the case when I was at Andover from 2001-2005, and I think it's still the case.

Regardless of class title or whatnot, do most kids sit for the AP tests if they know if will help with their Freshman college coursework?

PP here. Some do and some don't. I only took 1 AP exam. I think kids who took advanced math and science classes were more likely to take the requisite AP courses.

In any case, while it helps with getting a head start on credits, it doesn't help with college admissions from Andover. What matters are your grades in the 500 and 600 level courses, which are equivalent to college sophomore or even major-specific courses (so well beyond AP).

And to the PP who said no college professor thinks high schoolers can perform a college level: Let me put it to you this way. When I started in college, my English professor told me, "I don't have anything I can really teach you. You've already mastered everything I teach in this course." She attributed that to where I went to high school. My philosophy professor sophomore year said that, in her 25 years of experience teaching at the collegiate level, kids from Andover and Exeter come in knowing most of the freshman and sophomore curriculum.

I'm not trying to brag; I'm just pointing out that one of the reasons these schools do so well in college admissions is that they essentially act as junior colleges.

They why wouldn't you test out of this? You could have been taking 200, 300, or 400 level classes in college, doing internships, going on 1-2 study abroads, etc. Or do kids like to read Dante for the third time and get easy As for two years?

Grad schools look at your previous transcript and let you move beyond the pre-reqs.

There was no way to test out of it. I did study abroad for a semester in junior year. I wasn't able to test out of a lot of courses in college because I took a fairly specialized curriculum. I also couldn't have moved beyond pre-reqs for grad school, given that it was PhD coursework.

So your university would not have taken 4 or 5s on AP subject tests at all? So you spent freshman and sophomore year of university doing the same things as you did in high school? If you knew that going in sounds like that is what you deliberately chose to do. Other kids would have chosen to go to colleges that let them place out of undergrad pre-reqs and done 2-3 majors or maybe tacked on an MS/MA Jr or senior year.

No, not for most of the classes I needed to take. Most of my HS friends had similar experiences. Good universities increasingly aren't letting kids test out of core classes using AP test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW - The private boarding schools are in deliberation about withdrawing from APs.

Andover grad here. We've long not followed the AP curriculum. Courses might prepare kids for the AP exam, but it's never the express purpose. I think Exeter doesn't participate in the AP program either. This was the case when I was at Andover from 2001-2005, and I think it's still the case.

Regardless of class title or whatnot, do most kids sit for the AP tests if they know if will help with their Freshman college coursework?

PP here. Some do and some don't. I only took 1 AP exam. I think kids who took advanced math and science classes were more likely to take the requisite AP courses.

In any case, while it helps with getting a head start on credits, it doesn't help with college admissions from Andover. What matters are your grades in the 500 and 600 level courses, which are equivalent to college sophomore or even major-specific courses (so well beyond AP).

And to the PP who said no college professor thinks high schoolers can perform a college level: Let me put it to you this way. When I started in college, my English professor told me, "I don't have anything I can really teach you. You've already mastered everything I teach in this course." She attributed that to where I went to high school. My philosophy professor sophomore year said that, in her 25 years of experience teaching at the collegiate level, kids from Andover and Exeter come in knowing most of the freshman and sophomore curriculum.

I'm not trying to brag; I'm just pointing out that one of the reasons these schools do so well in college admissions is that they essentially act as junior colleges.

They why wouldn't you test out of this? You could have been taking 200, 300, or 400 level classes in college, doing internships, going on 1-2 study abroads, etc. Or do kids like to read Dante for the third time and get easy As for two years?

Grad schools look at your previous transcript and let you move beyond the pre-reqs.

There was no way to test out of it. I did study abroad for a semester in junior year. I wasn't able to test out of a lot of courses in college because I took a fairly specialized curriculum. I also couldn't have moved beyond pre-reqs for grad school, given that it was PhD coursework.

So your university would not have taken 4 or 5s on AP subject tests at all? So you spent freshman and sophomore year of university doing the same things as you did in high school? If you knew that going in sounds like that is what you deliberately chose to do. Other kids would have chosen to go to colleges that let them place out of undergrad pre-reqs and done 2-3 majors or maybe tacked on an MS/MA Jr or senior year.

No, not for most of the classes I needed to take. Most of my HS friends had similar experiences. Good universities increasingly aren't letting kids test out of core classes using AP test scores.

That's our experience too for core classes. And for each incoming class it's getting more restrictive. They can't have one set of rules for students like the poster above and another for the majority. High school curriculums across the country are too uneven. And I know you all really don't want to hear this but there is very little respect for the AP curriculum at the elite college level. Those APs have come in really handy though for fulfilling general electives. MY DC did a happy dance about language being waived although he ended up taking another voluntarily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW - The private boarding schools are in deliberation about withdrawing from APs.

Andover grad here. We've long not followed the AP curriculum. Courses might prepare kids for the AP exam, but it's never the express purpose. I think Exeter doesn't participate in the AP program either. This was the case when I was at Andover from 2001-2005, and I think it's still the case.

Regardless of class title or whatnot, do most kids sit for the AP tests if they know if will help with their Freshman college coursework?

PP here. Some do and some don't. I only took 1 AP exam. I think kids who took advanced math and science classes were more likely to take the requisite AP courses.

In any case, while it helps with getting a head start on credits, it doesn't help with college admissions from Andover. What matters are your grades in the 500 and 600 level courses, which are equivalent to college sophomore or even major-specific courses (so well beyond AP).

And to the PP who said no college professor thinks high schoolers can perform a college level: Let me put it to you this way. When I started in college, my English professor told me, "I don't have anything I can really teach you. You've already mastered everything I teach in this course." She attributed that to where I went to high school. My philosophy professor sophomore year said that, in her 25 years of experience teaching at the collegiate level, kids from Andover and Exeter come in knowing most of the freshman and sophomore curriculum.

I'm not trying to brag; I'm just pointing out that one of the reasons these schools do so well in college admissions is that they essentially act as junior colleges.

They why wouldn't you test out of this? You could have been taking 200, 300, or 400 level classes in college, doing internships, going on 1-2 study abroads, etc. Or do kids like to read Dante for the third time and get easy As for two years?

Grad schools look at your previous transcript and let you move beyond the pre-reqs.

There was no way to test out of it. I did study abroad for a semester in junior year. I wasn't able to test out of a lot of courses in college because I took a fairly specialized curriculum. I also couldn't have moved beyond pre-reqs for grad school, given that it was PhD coursework.

So your university would not have taken 4 or 5s on AP subject tests at all? So you spent freshman and sophomore year of university doing the same things as you did in high school? If you knew that going in sounds like that is what you deliberately chose to do. Other kids would have chosen to go to colleges that let them place out of undergrad pre-reqs and done 2-3 majors or maybe tacked on an MS/MA Jr or senior year.

No, not for most of the classes I needed to take. Most of my HS friends had similar experiences. Good universities increasingly aren't letting kids test out of core classes using AP test scores.

That's our experience too for core classes. And for each incoming class it's getting more restrictive. They can't have one set of rules for students like the poster above and another for the majority. High school curriculums across the country are too uneven. And I know you all really don't want to hear this but there is very little respect for the AP curriculum at the elite college level. Those APs have come in really handy though for fulfilling general electives. MY DC did a happy dance about language being waived although he ended up taking another voluntarily.

Yup. I don't mean to offend folks, but at Andover, the sense was that the AP curriculum was meant for less high quality high schools to have a curriculum that kids could complete that would broadcast to colleges that the kids had done somewhat advanced work. There was a sense (not conveyed by teachers explicitly, but the implication was strongly there) that places like Andover didn't need the AP curriculum because colleges know the courses are strong, and go farther than the AP curriculum does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So a friend’s daughter went to Sidwell and wanted to apply EA to an Ivy. She was told that the school couldn’t support that because they were trying to get a student-athlete with mediocre grades in EA.

The DD was admitted to her First choice during regular admissions, but it seemed really unfair to me.

That said, I have heard that they don’t do that sort of favoritism now.

I'm a Sidwell parent -- two grads and a current student -- and I know the school is far from perfect, which I freely tell any prospective parent who asks me, but this is just bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW - The private boarding schools are in deliberation about withdrawing from APs.

Andover grad here. We've long not followed the AP curriculum. Courses might prepare kids for the AP exam, but it's never the express purpose. I think Exeter doesn't participate in the AP program either. This was the case when I was at Andover from 2001-2005, and I think it's still the case.

Regardless of class title or whatnot, do most kids sit for the AP tests if they know if will help with their Freshman college coursework?

PP here. Some do and some don't. I only took 1 AP exam. I think kids who took advanced math and science classes were more likely to take the requisite AP courses.

In any case, while it helps with getting a head start on credits, it doesn't help with college admissions from Andover. What matters are your grades in the 500 and 600 level courses, which are equivalent to college sophomore or even major-specific courses (so well beyond AP).

And to the PP who said no college professor thinks high schoolers can perform a college level: Let me put it to you this way. When I started in college, my English professor told me, "I don't have anything I can really teach you. You've already mastered everything I teach in this course." She attributed that to where I went to high school. My philosophy professor sophomore year said that, in her 25 years of experience teaching at the collegiate level, kids from Andover and Exeter come in knowing most of the freshman and sophomore curriculum.

I'm not trying to brag; I'm just pointing out that one of the reasons these schools do so well in college admissions is that they essentially act as junior colleges.

They why wouldn't you test out of this? You could have been taking 200, 300, or 400 level classes in college, doing internships, going on 1-2 study abroads, etc. Or do kids like to read Dante for the third time and get easy As for two years?

Grad schools look at your previous transcript and let you move beyond the pre-reqs.

There was no way to test out of it. I did study abroad for a semester in junior year. I wasn't able to test out of a lot of courses in college because I took a fairly specialized curriculum. I also couldn't have moved beyond pre-reqs for grad school, given that it was PhD coursework.

So your university would not have taken 4 or 5s on AP subject tests at all? So you spent freshman and sophomore year of university doing the same things as you did in high school? If you knew that going in sounds like that is what you deliberately chose to do. Other kids would have chosen to go to colleges that let them place out of undergrad pre-reqs and done 2-3 majors or maybe tacked on an MS/MA Jr or senior year.

No, not for most of the classes I needed to take. Most of my HS friends had similar experiences. Good universities increasingly aren't letting kids test out of core classes using AP test scores.

That's our experience too for core classes. And for each incoming class it's getting more restrictive. They can't have one set of rules for students like the poster above and another for the majority. High school curriculums across the country are too uneven. And I know you all really don't want to hear this but there is very little respect for the AP curriculum at the elite college level. Those APs have come in really handy though for fulfilling general electives. MY DC did a happy dance about language being waived although he ended up taking another voluntarily.

Yup. I don't mean to offend folks, but at Andover, the sense was that the AP curriculum was meant for less high quality high schools to have a curriculum that kids could complete that would broadcast to colleges that the kids had done somewhat advanced work. There was a sense (not conveyed by teachers explicitly, but the implication was strongly there) that places like Andover didn't need the AP curriculum because colleges know the courses are strong, and go farther than the AP curriculum does.

I don't really care about that.

I do however, care that you are confessing that the first two years at a now $60-80k/year school is easy and majority redundant with your high school experience. This is fascinating and a waste of time and money.
I experienced it too, for all my math, science and spanish classes, but a long time ago. I did not take a "new" math subject matter until Junior year, after diffy Q .

Higher education. What a lucrative business model. WIsh I could buy the public stock.

[Anonymous]

It's not that extreme at all schools. The ones with a rigorous firehouse reputation like MIT, UChicago, Berkeley, Williams, Caltech, Columbia , you do want to take most of the baseline courses again. And at other schools it depends on the road chosen by the student. That PP also sounded exceptional. It sounds like his experience might have been more on the outlier end even among his peer Andover group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not that extreme at all schools. The ones with a rigorous firehouse reputation like MIT, UChicago, Berkeley, Williams, Caltech, Columbia , you do want to take most of the baseline courses again. And at other schools it depends on the road chosen by the student. That PP also sounded exceptional. It sounds like his experience might have been more on the outlier end even among his peer Andover group.

My experience was similar to many of my friends at Andover. I went to a nationally known, rigorous university.

(Oh and I’m female )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a friend’s daughter went to Sidwell and wanted to apply EA to an Ivy. She was told that the school couldn’t support that because they were trying to get a student-athlete with mediocre grades in EA.

The DD was admitted to her First choice during regular admissions, but it seemed really unfair to me.

That said, I have heard that they don’t do that sort of favoritism now.

I'm a Sidwell parent -- two grads and a current student -- and I know the school is far from perfect, which I freely tell any prospective parent who asks me, but this is just bullshit.

Another Sidwell parent. If you know the school and you know how college admissions works, including how student athlete-related admissions work at selective schools, you know this is crap. Either the poster is making stuff up or the poster's "friend" is making stuff up. But this is not a true story.

Lets, for the sake of argument, assume this is a true story. The school knows exactly who the poster's friend is. The poster's friend and the friend's daughter might be super-pissed about being outed on this board.

[Anonymous]

You can go straight to St Albans website, and under academics look at the college handbook which has 5 years emissions numbers. Fully 30% went Ivy or MIT/Stanford/Chicago, and 60% went top 25 USN ranked schools. That's understated, because Oxford, etc. aren't ranked. It would be nice if all the schools were as transparent as STA is.


College Matriculation 2013-2018 Matriculated

Rank Total Students 2013-2018 385 100%
Total Top 25 228 59%
Total Ivy League Plus Chicago, Stanford, MIT 115 30%

1 Chicago 28 7% 3
2 Harvard 14 4% 2
3 U Penn 13 3% 8
3 Yale 13 3% 3
5 Columbia 12 3% 5
6 Dartmouth 11 3% 11
7 Davidson 10 3% 10
7 Georgetow 10 3% 20
9 Princeton 9 2% 1
10 Brown 8 2% 14

[Anonymous]

How is Davidson so highly ranked in that group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is Davidson so highly ranked in that group?

its what USNews ranks them.

[Anonymous]

Lots of opinions here without any facts. More light, less heat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a friend’s daughter went to Sidwell and wanted to apply EA to an Ivy. She was told that the school couldn’t support that because they were trying to get a student-athlete with mediocre grades in EA.

The DD was admitted to her First choice during regular admissions, but it seemed really unfair to me.

That said, I have heard that they don’t do that sort of favoritism now.

I'm a Sidwell parent -- two grads and a current student -- and I know the school is far from perfect, which I freely tell any prospective parent who asks me, but this is just bullshit.

I agree that this is bullshit. The concerns about whether the college office has the right resources (and enough resources) to do the job are credible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW - The private boarding schools are in deliberation about withdrawing from APs.

Andover grad here. We've long not followed the AP curriculum. Courses might prepare kids for the AP exam, but it's never the express purpose. I think Exeter doesn't participate in the AP program either. This was the case when I was at Andover from 2001-2005, and I think it's still the case.

Regardless of class title or whatnot, do most kids sit for the AP tests if they know if will help with their Freshman college coursework?

PP here. Some do and some don't. I only took 1 AP exam. I think kids who took advanced math and science classes were more likely to take the requisite AP courses.

In any case, while it helps with getting a head start on credits, it doesn't help with college admissions from Andover. What matters are your grades in the 500 and 600 level courses, which are equivalent to college sophomore or even major-specific courses (so well beyond AP).

And to the PP who said no college professor thinks high schoolers can perform a college level: Let me put it to you this way. When I started in college, my English professor told me, "I don't have anything I can really teach you. You've already mastered everything I teach in this course." She attributed that to where I went to high school. My philosophy professor sophomore year said that, in her 25 years of experience teaching at the collegiate level, kids from Andover and Exeter come in knowing most of the freshman and sophomore curriculum.

I'm not trying to brag; I'm just pointing out that one of the reasons these schools do so well in college admissions is that they essentially act as junior colleges.

They why wouldn't you test out of this? You could have been taking 200, 300, or 400 level classes in college, doing internships, going on 1-2 study abroads, etc. Or do kids like to read Dante for the third time and get easy As for two years?

Grad schools look at your previous transcript and let you move beyond the pre-reqs.

There was no way to test out of it. I did study abroad for a semester in junior year. I wasn't able to test out of a lot of courses in college because I took a fairly specialized curriculum. I also couldn't have moved beyond pre-reqs for grad school, given that it was PhD coursework.

So your university would not have taken 4 or 5s on AP subject tests at all? So you spent freshman and sophomore year of university doing the same things as you did in high school? If you knew that going in sounds like that is what you deliberately chose to do. Other kids would have chosen to go to colleges that let them place out of undergrad pre-reqs and done 2-3 majors or maybe tacked on an MS/MA Jr or senior year.

No, not for most of the classes I needed to take. Most of my HS friends had similar experiences. Good universities increasingly aren't letting kids test out of core classes using AP test scores.

That's our experience too for core classes. And for each incoming class it's getting more restrictive. They can't have one set of rules for students like the poster above and another for the majority. High school curriculums across the country are too uneven. And I know you all really don't want to hear this but there is very little respect for the AP curriculum at the elite college level. Those APs have come in really handy though for fulfilling general electives. MY DC did a happy dance about language being waived although he ended up taking another voluntarily.

Yup. I don't mean to offend folks, but at Andover, the sense was that the AP curriculum was meant for less high quality high schools to have a curriculum that kids could complete that would broadcast to colleges that the kids had done somewhat advanced work. There was a sense (not conveyed by teachers explicitly, but the implication was strongly there) that places like Andover didn't need the AP curriculum because colleges know the courses are strong, and go farther than the AP curriculum does.

I'm going to fw your above post to all my friends who went to Andover and see if they are all as stuck up as you are. Meanwhile, next time my think tank comes across anyone that puts that on their CV, they're going to get grilled for humility, common sense, and sense of superiority.