Middle and high school on Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn't care a whit about neighborhood schools. They care about capacity management system wide. As a matter of fact, they're fine with any particular by-right school being 0% in-boundary, as Brent had become by the early 2000s. DCPS principals are not evaluated on their ability to attract or retain in-boundary families. Note that DCPS won't buy or build any new elementary schools in Upper NW, although several of the JKLM schools are at close to 200% capacity, following the logic that there are DCPS elementary school buildings in Wards 7 and 8 standing two-thirds empty.

As long as voters aren't canning their city council members over neighborhood school issues, the city government isn't accountable to neighborhood parents shunning schools. If you want to get DCPS' attention, you can vote Allen out, though that's unlikely to do any good.

with the exception of Janney and Lafayette, virtually all of the NW schools have some OOB population. Until these schools are filled with IB students there's little reason to build new capacity. The better solution and the one upper NW roundly rejected is to alter the boundaries and use the existing capacity as a safety valve. . . but that's a non-starter for the eastern part of Lafayette or Janney to move to Shepherd or Hearst

Hearst, Janney, and Stoddert no longer take OOB kids. Mann, Murch, Eaton, and Key only take a few at K.

Hearst is 2/3 OOB students. Seems like they must have let some OOB students in. Even Stoddert is %25 OOB

Hearst didn't take any for 2016-17. The spaces available have been declining over the last few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn't care a whit about neighborhood schools. They care about capacity management system wide. As a matter of fact, they're fine with any particular by-right school being 0% in-boundary, as Brent had become by the early 2000s. DCPS principals are not evaluated on their ability to attract or retain in-boundary families. Note that DCPS won't buy or build any new elementary schools in Upper NW, although several of the JKLM schools are at close to 200% capacity, following the logic that there are DCPS elementary school buildings in Wards 7 and 8 standing two-thirds empty.

As long as voters aren't canning their city council members over neighborhood school issues, the city government isn't accountable to neighborhood parents shunning schools. If you want to get DCPS' attention, you can vote Allen out, though that's unlikely to do any good.

with the exception of Janney and Lafayette, virtually all of the NW schools have some OOB population. Until these schools are filled with IB students there's little reason to build new capacity. The better solution and the one upper NW roundly rejected is to alter the boundaries and use the existing capacity as a safety valve. . . but that's a non-starter for the eastern part of Lafayette or Janney to move to Shepherd or Hearst

Hearst, Janney, and Stoddert no longer take OOB kids. Mann, Murch, Eaton, and Key only take a few at K.

Hearst is 2/3 OOB students. Seems like they must have let some OOB students in. Even Stoddert is %25 OOB

Hearst didn't take any for 2016-17. The spaces available have been declining over the last few years.

Right, but the days of OOB at those schools are over, and yet the overcrowding persists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we know - we go on SchoolDigger.com, visit schools, talk to old friends who've moved to MD. We are aware that MoCo is in the grip of a social upheaval. But at least MoCo offers test-in GT at the MS level to a select few, and doesn't seem to fight high SES parents amalgamating around high-performing schools across the board.

The test in Montgomery County elementary GT programs took 477 kids out of 12000 3rd graders, I.e. 4%. Most of the lawyers' kids will have trouble competing with the scientists' kids.

There are several MS test-in programs on the eastern side of MoCo. My sibling has one child at the Takoma Park magnet (math and science, child got a seat set aside for a Takoma Park resident) and the other at Eastern MS in Silver Spring (humanities). Neither child tested into elementary GT. All kids in the MS magnets perform at least two years above grade level. They're academic paradise for advanced kids.

The test in programs have 325 seats among the 4 of them at the middle school level. That's less than 3% of MCPS fifth graders that can be accommodated.

Most parents of advanced students are satisfied with the neighborhood programs (generally on the West side of the county) and don't seek seats in the several MS test-in programs in the Downcounty Consortium. The commute can be an hour one way. But for the kids who test in whose families are willing to brave the commute (on school buses) like my niece/nephew, these programs are a godsend. The programs aren't designed to help somewhat advanced kids, like in Fairfax and Arlington, they're geared toward really advanced kids who'd be bored out of their skulls in MS programs where "differentiation within the classroom" BS is the norm.

Sure, but the point is that moving to Mo tgomery County for these programs is an act of folly. You'd have better odds shooting craps. Likewise, they are hardly programs for the District to emulate to silence the din of Capitol Hill parents. Few children of the Upper Middle Class in the District would qualify with admission rates like these. When parents demand "test in programs like the suburbs", they assume their kids would get in, when they probably wouldn't, at least with the MCPS model. FCPS 's model is a different story; you just need to get comfortable with test prep.

[Anonymous]

In MoCo, "soft" test-in MS options are scattered around the county in ordinary neighborhood schools, e.g. 7th grade algebra and advanced English classes at schools with high low SES populations, to keep high SES parents onboard. Silver Spring International is a good example.

I get the sense that most Cap Hill high SES parents would be satisfied with BASIS or Wash Latin level academics at a by-right school in a decent facility. They aren't asking for the sun, the moon and the stars on a test in program, just a quality MS program where kids behave featuring appropriate academic rigor for all students. It's very difficult to convince parents that appropriate rigor awaits at a program where most of the kids don't test proficient and grade-level classes aren't are offered, let alone above-grade level courses.

The drumbeat to move families onto to Jefferson Academy and Eliot-Hine has been driving down PTA attendance at Brent and Maury. Improving these schools has become a focus of PTA work, yet few parents are onboard. The conversation is so awkward that many avoid it to avoid causing offense, or knocking heads with movement leaders. The thinking is that, once a bunch of parents make the jump in 2018, the good news will come back to Brent and Maury, motivating many others to jump. I won't be surprised if the opposite proves true.

[Anonymous]

I'd welcome test-in programs and honors programs like in NYC. We don't need programs for gifted kids. We do need programs for bright kids.

My child is very bright but likely not genuinely gifted. She was, however, reading FOUR grade levels above many other kids in her Hill inbound elementary -- in FIRST grade. No way will I send her to a middle school where most peers are years behind her, unless there's an honors class (which there will likely not be). I'll sell my home before then (and we've been on the Hill over 15 years).

Signed,
Successful product of NYC public schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In MoCo, "soft" test-in MS options are scattered around the county in ordinary neighborhood schools, e.g. 7th grade algebra and advanced English classes at schools with high low SES populations, to keep high SES parents onboard. Silver Spring International is a good example.

I get the sense that most Cap Hill high SES parents would be satisfied with BASIS or Wash Latin level academics at a by-right school in a decent facility. They aren't asking for the sun, the moon and the stars on a test in program, just a quality MS program where kids behave featuring appropriate academic rigor for all students. It's very difficult to convince parents that appropriate rigor awaits at a program where most of the kids don't test proficient and grade-level classes aren't are offered, let alone above-grade level courses.

The drumbeat to move families onto to Jefferson Academy and Eliot-Hine has been driving down PTA attendance at Brent and Maury. Improving these schools has become a focus of PTA work, yet few parents are onboard. The conversation is so awkward that many avoid it to avoid causing offense, or knocking heads with movement leaders. The thinking is that, once a bunch of parents make the jump in 2018, the good news will come back to Brent and Maury, motivating many others to jump. I won't be surprised if the opposite proves true.

Can you tell more about Silver Spring International? I understand that it's trended towards more high SES kids enrolling over the past few years and that people are relatively happy. I agree with you that most of us Hill parents would be happy with 7th grade Algebra and advanced English; we don't need a whole test-in program or got forbid to duplicate the craziness that is Fairfax County. I'm a parent who would probably be willing to try SH on that basis, but we are zoned for EH. Guessing that there are probably a lot like me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In MoCo, "soft" test-in MS options are scattered around the county in ordinary neighborhood schools, e.g. 7th grade algebra and advanced English classes at schools with high low SES populations, to keep high SES parents onboard. Silver Spring International is a good example.

I get the sense that most Cap Hill high SES parents would be satisfied with BASIS or Wash Latin level academics at a by-right school in a decent facility. They aren't asking for the sun, the moon and the stars on a test in program, just a quality MS program where kids behave featuring appropriate academic rigor for all students. It's very difficult to convince parents that appropriate rigor awaits at a program where most of the kids don't test proficient and grade-level classes aren't are offered, let alone above-grade level courses.

The drumbeat to move families onto to Jefferson Academy and Eliot-Hine has been driving down PTA attendance at Brent and Maury. Improving these schools has become a focus of PTA work, yet few parents are onboard. The conversation is so awkward that many avoid it to avoid causing offense, or knocking heads with movement leaders. The thinking is that, once a bunch of parents make the jump in 2018, the good news will come back to Brent and Maury, motivating many others to jump. I won't be surprised if the opposite proves true.

Can you tell more about Silver Spring International? I understand that it's trended towards more high SES kids enrolling over the past few years and that people are relatively happy. I agree with you that most of us Hill parents would be happy with 7th grade Algebra and advanced English; we don't need a whole test-in program or got forbid to duplicate the craziness that is Fairfax County. I'm a parent who would probably be willing to try SH on that basis, but we are zoned for EH. Guessing that there are probably a lot like me.

Lots about SSIMS on the Md Board here's a recent thread to get you started. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/623856.page#10477728

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS isn't sympathetic to these families bc there are plenty of others that are more than satisfied with Stuart Hobson and Eastern. Either these high SES families make a decision to send their children to these schools and become the change they want to see or continue to flee to Upper NW or the burbs.

Or they get involved to do the hard work. Your BoE rep has this mission. Get involved!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn't care a whit about neighborhood schools. They care about capacity management system wide. As a matter of fact, they're fine with any particular by-right school being 0% in-boundary, as Brent had become by the early 2000s. DCPS principals are not evaluated on their ability to attract or retain in-boundary families. Note that DCPS won't buy or build any new elementary schools in Upper NW, although several of the JKLM schools are at close to 200% capacity, following the logic that there are DCPS elementary school buildings in Wards 7 and 8 standing two-thirds empty.

As long as voters aren't canning their city council members over neighborhood school issues, the city government isn't accountable to neighborhood parents shunning schools. If you want to get DCPS' attention, you can vote Allen out, though that's unlikely to do any good.

with the exception of Janney and Lafayette, virtually all of the NW schools have some OOB population. Until these schools are filled with IB students there's little reason to build new capacity. The better solution and the one upper NW roundly rejected is to alter the boundaries and use the existing capacity as a safety valve. . . but that's a non-starter for the eastern part of Lafayette or Janney to move to Shepherd or Hearst

I'm' sorry, but this makes no sense. If the school is currently %66 OOB then it's down from what? %100? It may be trending more IB but it has 2:1 OOB vs IB for students currently enrolled. Not offering lottery spots simply means they've retained the currently enrolled students, many of which are OOB. There is ample capacity in the system but none of the NW folks will budge on boundaries and MS rights. Build new ES and send to what MS? Deal for all right?


Hearst, Janney, and Stoddert no longer take OOB kids. Mann, Murch, Eaton, and Key only take a few at K.

Hearst is 2/3 OOB students. Seems like they must have let some OOB students in. Even Stoddert is %25 OOB

Hearst didn't take any for 2016-17. The spaces available have been declining over the last few years.

Right, but the days of OOB at those schools are over, and yet the overcrowding persists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In MoCo, "soft" test-in MS options are scattered around the county in ordinary neighborhood schools, e.g. 7th grade algebra and advanced English classes at schools with high low SES populations, to keep high SES parents onboard. Silver Spring International is a good example.

I get the sense that most Cap Hill high SES parents would be satisfied with BASIS or Wash Latin level academics at a by-right school in a decent facility. They aren't asking for the sun, the moon and the stars on a test in program, just a quality MS program where kids behave featuring appropriate academic rigor for all students. It's very difficult to convince parents that appropriate rigor awaits at a program where most of the kids don't test proficient and grade-level classes aren't are offered, let alone above-grade level courses.

The drumbeat to move families onto to Jefferson Academy and Eliot-Hine has been driving down PTA attendance at Brent and Maury. Improving these schools has become a focus of PTA work, yet few parents are onboard. The conversation is so awkward that many avoid it to avoid causing offense, or knocking heads with movement leaders. The thinking is that, once a bunch of parents make the jump in 2018, the good news will come back to Brent and Maury, motivating many others to jump. I won't be surprised if the opposite proves true.

At risk of being labeled a booster, I feel like this post is unfair on several levels. Why would a school offer above-level classes when most of the current students are below level? The truth is, we don't know what these schools will do when they get more at or above level kids.

Regarding the "boosters" that are ruining these PTA's, I'm not sure what you want? DCPS and the Mayor seem to think test-in schools are a non-starter. If you have a kid currently in elementary school, you don't have time to wait for a new mayor who might have a new viewpoint. So then you're choices are hope for Latin, hope BASIS works for your kids, private (if you have the $$$) or move. What is wrong with pushing for another option?

[Anonymous]

What's wrong with pushing for another option is that we can't so much as discuss options without having our heads bitten off by PTA leaders for being backstabbing naysayers. It's the boosters' way or the highway. Translation: we get a 30 million dollar renovation of Jefferson Academy, tomorrow, thanks, even it's a colossal waste of money, like the various Taj Mahal HS renovations. These buildings sit half empty, with proficiency pass rates in the teens, after 70, 80, 100 million or more was lavished on them. Visited Dunbar or Eastern lately?

Privately, many Brent and Maury parents would thrilled if the Jefferson and/or EH buildings were handed off to BASIS or Latin, so those in-demand charters would finally have decent facilities, and be in a position to offer many more spots that Ward 6 families would actually take. But, no this option can't even be discussed. No parents' survey allowed. The PTAs keep inviting Jefferson and EH reps to general meetings to boost for their schools. Count how many parents hang around to listen - two dozen, tops. I remember PTA meetings at both schools that were packed with 200 parents. That ship has sailed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In MoCo, "soft" test-in MS options are scattered around the county in ordinary neighborhood schools, e.g. 7th grade algebra and advanced English classes at schools with high low SES populations, to keep high SES parents onboard. Silver Spring International is a good example.

I get the sense that most Cap Hill high SES parents would be satisfied with BASIS or Wash Latin level academics at a by-right school in a decent facility. They aren't asking for the sun, the moon and the stars on a test in program, just a quality MS program where kids behave featuring appropriate academic rigor for all students. It's very difficult to convince parents that appropriate rigor awaits at a program where most of the kids don't test proficient and grade-level classes aren't are offered, let alone above-grade level courses.

The drumbeat to move families onto to Jefferson Academy and Eliot-Hine has been driving down PTA attendance at Brent and Maury. Improving these schools has become a focus of PTA work, yet few parents are onboard. The conversation is so awkward that many avoid it to avoid causing offense, or knocking heads with movement leaders. The thinking is that, once a bunch of parents make the jump in 2018, the good news will come back to Brent and Maury, motivating many others to jump. I won't be surprised if the opposite proves true.

At risk of being labeled a booster, I feel like this post is unfair on several levels. Why would a school offer above-level classes when most of the current students are below level? The truth is, we don't know what these schools will do when they get more at or above level kids.

Regarding the "boosters" that are ruining these PTA's, I'm not sure what you want? DCPS and the Mayor seem to think test-in schools are a non-starter. If you have a kid currently in elementary school, you don't have time to wait for a new mayor who might have a new viewpoint. So then you're choices are hope for Latin, hope BASIS works for your kids, private (if you have the $$$) or move. What is wrong with pushing for another option?

This is the sort of dead-ended circuitous reasoning DCPS excels at. I graduated from a MoCo MS and HS in the 1980s where the county set up above-grade-level classes to ATTRACT high SES families BEFORE my peers and I rocked in from high-performing local elementary schools. Yes, honors classes in both schools sat empty, or almost empty, for one school year in a newly renovated building, with teachers doing nothing more than train and plan to teach advanced classes. The second year, the classes were flooded with above-grade level takers. The rest is history in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In MoCo, "soft" test-in MS options are scattered around the county in ordinary neighborhood schools, e.g. 7th grade algebra and advanced English classes at schools with high low SES populations, to keep high SES parents onboard. Silver Spring International is a good example.

I get the sense that most Cap Hill high SES parents would be satisfied with BASIS or Wash Latin level academics at a by-right school in a decent facility. They aren't asking for the sun, the moon and the stars on a test in program, just a quality MS program where kids behave featuring appropriate academic rigor for all students. It's very difficult to convince parents that appropriate rigor awaits at a program where most of the kids don't test proficient and grade-level classes aren't are offered, let alone above-grade level courses.

The drumbeat to move families onto to Jefferson Academy and Eliot-Hine has been driving down PTA attendance at Brent and Maury. Improving these schools has become a focus of PTA work, yet few parents are onboard. The conversation is so awkward that many avoid it to avoid causing offense, or knocking heads with movement leaders. The thinking is that, once a bunch of parents make the jump in 2018, the good news will come back to Brent and Maury, motivating many others to jump. I won't be surprised if the opposite proves true.

Can you tell more about Silver Spring International? I understand that it's trended towards more high SES kids enrolling over the past few years and that people are relatively happy. I agree with you that most of us Hill parents would be happy with 7th grade Algebra and advanced English; we don't need a whole test-in program or got forbid to duplicate the craziness that is Fairfax County. I'm a parent who would probably be willing to try SH on that basis, but we are zoned for EH. Guessing that there are probably a lot like me.

I attended a SSI open house in the fall and recommend the experience. I learned that their high SES/white population is climbing steadily year on year (they've gone from around 10-40% high SES in five years). They offer a bunch of honors classes, and French and Spanish immersion for students with the language background. Yes, obviously, droves of parents like you on the Hill.

SH doesn't offer 7th grade algebra or other above grade-level classes, after 30 years of the Cluster. This helps explain BASIS' popularity.

[Anonymous]

If this parent could complete a survey on ms options on the Hill, I'd ask that a good THIRD of the money allocated for any renovation (Jefferson academy, Eliot-Hine) be set aside to hire teachers to teach at and above grade-level classes, even if no student were enrolled for a year or 2. I'd wager that most Hill parents would make the same request.

Signed
Yet another NYorker who attended high-powered public schools housed in decrepit buildings. Complaints were few.

[Anonymous]

Yet another useless MS and HS on Cap Hill thread deserving to die.

All you can do is hope for luck at Latin, try BASIS, move, go private, or try Hobson if your kid doesn't excel at math, folks.