Middle Schools - Ward 6 Centric

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker or SWW are selective admissions schools. SH is not.

Size is one element for making a great school in Ward Six - not the only element. Dunbar needs more than size to make it strong.

DCPS is not selling this line - the facts making the case on their own.

WARD SIX ENROLLMENT/CAPACITY
SH – 428 / 460
EH - 284 / 850
Jeff – 279 / 900

TOTAL IN-BOUNDS STUDENTS
SH - 90
EH – 94
Jeff – 151

* Ward Six has capacity for 2,210 students in three middle schools.
* Ward Six middle schools use 45% of their capacity.
* Ward Six has 991 total middle school students enrolled.
* Ward Six has 335 in-bounds middle school students.
* Ward Six students fill 15% of the Ward Six middle school capacity.

Yes, all of these point to the need for a larger MS in Ward Six in order to rationalize the costs. They do not prove that size = quality.

“Middle school is the age where kids figure out what excites them,” said Councilmember Wells. “Are they motivated by languages? By sports? By art? The more options you can provide in a middle school, the better. That’s why Deal is the ideal.”

Deal is the best DCPS has to offer, that doesn't mean it's ideal. Tommy Wells is DC Councilmember, not an expert on education.

Do you have an affirmative point to make? Or are you just Johnny Negative? Can you lay out a vision where a small middle school works within the context of Ward Six?

Neither. I have a cautionary point to make. Namely, that we should be seduced by the promise of larger = better. That is not empirically true. What is empirically true, is that larger = better economies of scale. And economies of scale may very well be one ingredient in the recipe of a successful MS in DCPS. However, if that's all anyone has to say or to offer for a Ward 6 MS, then Jeff-Eliot-Hobson is only going to be one big agglomerated mess of the current MS options. This is not a compelling vision.

I would suggest that what's needed is:

A strong principal
A visionary and specialized program (IB, or an expanded version of SH's museum partnerships, or an MS-level immersion opportunity such as art taught strictly in Spanish/Chinese/French, - something to capture the attention of the inbounds families who are leaving for greener pastures)
A strong catchment area (more than one decent elementary feeder, so some combination of Brent, Watkins, and/or Maury)
A magnet offering to draw some good and under-challenged students from other Wards (such as Honors Math classes and a Robotics class) to create a destination appeal for the school

Is size good? Yes, probably here it is. But size in and of itself is becoming the talking point and frankly that sets the bar too low.

[Anonymous]

BTW, were someone to create this school, the 1,000 sized Deal would be a disaster. In order to for the magnet to create enough appeal to draw the best students from outside the catchment area, it has to be somewhat limited. If anyone can get in, that's not necessarily a magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: But Maury parent of a fourth grader, you still didn't answer. You said what your son's peers chose. But will he goto Eliot Hine? Is it your first choice? Are you applying to Latin this year? Are you applying out of boundary for Cluster schools? Is your kid definitely going to Eliot Hine or are you waiting for more to become clear?

That's me: Yes, I can totally see us do that because those are people I trust (other parents as well as teachers), the same I trusted when we chose Maury in the first place, never bothering with lotteries (and Maury wasn't exactly a school of choice back then). Our children are doing very well, academically and socially, with enough room left to grow and by far not bored or under challenged. While sometimes working against the odds and hitting a rough patch here and there (but is there a school were you won't?), we've benefited from some of the early bird effects. (If I get there before you, then that next foreign language, in addition to Spanish, is going to be French, not Chinese

Actually not interested in Chinese. What about Arabic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest that what's needed is:

A strong principal
A visionary and specialized program (IB, or an expanded version of SH's museum partnerships, or an MS-level immersion opportunity such as art taught strictly in Spanish/Chinese/French, - something to capture the attention of the inbounds families who are leaving for greener pastures)
A strong catchment area (more than one decent elementary feeder, so some combination of Brent, Watkins, and/or Maury)
A magnet offering to draw some good and under-challenged students from other Wards (such as Honors Math classes and a Robotics class) to create a destination appeal for the school

Is size good? Yes, probably here it is. But size in and of itself is becoming the talking point and frankly that sets the bar too low.

As a Brent parent I would be over the moon if we could create a single middle school that Watkins, Maury and Brent fed into. We'd have a strong cohort from day one. And we would also have a major league group of parents with the ability (and juice) to make it great.

Plus, we have a strong hand in our negotiations with DCPS about setting up a program like you describe above. If it happened before the studies are completed and the consultants ink their reports we could actually shape the outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest that what's needed is:

A strong principal
A visionary and specialized program (IB, or an expanded version of SH's museum partnerships, or an MS-level immersion opportunity such as art taught strictly in Spanish/Chinese/French, - something to capture the attention of the inbounds families who are leaving for greener pastures)
A strong catchment area (more than one decent elementary feeder, so some combination of Brent, Watkins, and/or Maury)
A magnet offering to draw some good and under-challenged students from other Wards (such as Honors Math classes and a Robotics class) to create a destination appeal for the school

Is size good? Yes, probably here it is. But size in and of itself is becoming the talking point and frankly that sets the bar too low.

As a Brent parent I would be over the moon if we could create a single middle school that Watkins, Maury and Brent fed into. We'd have a strong cohort from day one. And we would also have a major league group of parents with the ability (and juice) to make it great.

Plus, we have a strong hand in our negotiations with DCPS about setting up a program like you describe above. If it happened before the studies are completed and the consultants ink their reports we could actually shape the outcome.

Sure, that would be great, if DCPS would make it happen. That's a big "if." Does DCPS have the political will or the cojones to make it so? We didn't get a good option from Rhee, despite tons of effort; I doubt we'll get that from the current gang in place. Pragmatically speaking, then, it's worth looking at other options. Deal and Latin only have so many seats. CHDS is expensive, as are all the other privates. That leaves those of us in "the other 99%" to look to charters. Promoting school choice and encouraging good charters to set up in DC might be our best chance, in practical terms, to give kids across Capitol Hill and DC a fighting chance to get a credible education while the clowns in charge of the city continue to focus on more important things, like getting nice vehicles for themselves.

[Anonymous]

(If I get there before you, then that next foreign language, in addition to Spanish, is going to be French, not Chinese

The Census Bureau forecasts that almost 25% of the U.S. population will be Latino by 2050, making Spanish a pragmatic language to learn. In global terms, about 1/3 of the world speaks Chinese or Hindi. Arabic, Russian, and Japanese are the "hard languages" that open up worlds of career options for those few Americans who speak them. French, by contrast, may be a beautiful language but it is almost completely useless (trust me on that - that's my main second language). If you are an activist parent interested in shaping options for foreign language classes in a Capitol Hill school, please consider the impact of your actions on all the families that will rely on whatever school you are working to shape. There are only so many classrooms, only so many languages that will be offered in any given academic setting. I, for one, would be far less interested in a school that offers French than in one that offers any one of the other choices mentioned above.

[Anonymous]

As a parent of a child at Brent, I love the idea of a middle school that would get soley the kids from Brent, Maury and Watkins.

But I'm also a parent of younger children at Payne, and I don't want to see Payne and Miner left out in the cold. I can only speak for Payne - it is a very orderly, well run small school with a lot of really nice kids. The preschool teachers are excellent. I do think Payne has serious potential. The preschool class is diverse and the middle class families seem very happy with the school. Having visited Watkins and Payne - Payne is much less chaotic. Payne is less chaotic than Brent - mainly because its a smaller school.

It's hard balancing the middle school we need right now with what the school landscape might look like in 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child at Brent, I love the idea of a middle school that would get solely the kids from Brent, Maury and Watkins.

But I'm also a parent of younger children at Payne, and I don't want to see Payne and Miner left out in the cold. I can only speak for Payne - it is a very orderly, well run small school with a lot of really nice kids. The preschool teachers are excellent. I do think Payne has serious potential. The preschool class is diverse and the middle class families seem very happy with the school. Having visited Watkins and Payne - Payne is much less chaotic. Payne is less chaotic than Brent - mainly because its a smaller school.

It's hard balancing the middle school we need right now with what the school landscape might look like in 10 years.

Yes, Eliot Hine (Eastern Middle School) must include Payne, Miner, JO Wilson, Amidon, Tyler, Ludlow Taylor, Walker Jones, Peabody, and Thomson (if they want to join the party). In the near term Watkins and Brent have the strongest cohorts in the testing grades - and as a parent with kids in the testing grades, the near-term cohort is crucial to me. Maury is key because their parents are are on the 'roids making Maury into an amazing place and it too has an emerging cohort. Every school has a set of strengths to bring to the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child at Brent, I love the idea of a middle school that would get solely the kids from Brent, Maury and Watkins.

But I'm also a parent of younger children at Payne, and I don't want to see Payne and Miner left out in the cold. I can only speak for Payne - it is a very orderly, well run small school with a lot of really nice kids. The preschool teachers are excellent. I do think Payne has serious potential. The preschool class is diverse and the middle class families seem very happy with the school. Having visited Watkins and Payne - Payne is much less chaotic. Payne is less chaotic than Brent - mainly because its a smaller school.

It's hard balancing the middle school we need right now with what the school landscape might look like in 10 years.

Yes, Eliot Hine (Eastern Middle School) must include Payne, Miner, JO Wilson, Amidon, Tyler, Ludlow Taylor, Walker Jones, Peabody, and Thomson (if they want to join the party). In the near term Watkins and Brent have the strongest cohorts in the testing grades - and as a parent with kids in the testing grades, the near-term cohort is crucial to me. Maury is key because their parents are are on the 'roids making Maury into an amazing place and it too has an emerging cohort. Every school has a set of strengths to bring to the table.

Don't forget Van Ness - gotta get Van Ness on-line too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Brent parent I would be over the moon if we could create a single middle school that Watkins, Maury and Brent fed into. We'd have a strong cohort from day one. And we would also have a major league group of parents with the ability (and juice) to make it great.

I hope this doesn't mean you'll mind the Miner, Payne, Tyler etc. families in the mix. Other than that, sounds like a deal to me! ... all right, I can live with Chinese, or Arabic (actually a lot of French is spoken in Arabic countries), but you better get there fast to help make that decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child at Brent, I love the idea of a middle school that would get solely the kids from Brent, Maury and Watkins.

But I'm also a parent of younger children at Payne, and I don't want to see Payne and Miner left out in the cold. I can only speak for Payne - it is a very orderly, well run small school with a lot of really nice kids. The preschool teachers are excellent. I do think Payne has serious potential. The preschool class is diverse and the middle class families seem very happy with the school. Having visited Watkins and Payne - Payne is much less chaotic. Payne is less chaotic than Brent - mainly because its a smaller school.

It's hard balancing the middle school we need right now with what the school landscape might look like in 10 years.

Yes, Eliot Hine (Eastern Middle School) must include Payne, Miner, JO Wilson, Amidon, Tyler, Ludlow Taylor, Walker Jones, Peabody, and Thomson (if they want to join the party). In the near term Watkins and Brent have the strongest cohorts in the testing grades - and as a parent with kids in the testing grades, the near-term cohort is crucial to me. Maury is key because their parents are are on the 'roids making Maury into an amazing place and it too has an emerging cohort. Every school has a set of strengths to bring to the table.

Don't forget Van Ness - gotta get Van Ness on-line too.

And Logan and SWS too.

[Anonymous]

Would Watkins families hold hands and jump in? What would it take to get Watkins parents to consider?

[Anonymous]

Here’s what one high profile Cluster parent posted on another DCUM thread yesterday:

“And just to confuse you even more, I personally believe that bigger middle schools and high schools are better for kids - more course offerings, more kids to learn from, clubs, sports, etc. It's why my son is at Wilson for high school - there's no other real comprehensive (meaning full AP and Honors classes, sports team offerings, language offerings, hundreds of clubs, theater, arts, etc.) high school in the city. So, not much "choice" there.” Gina Arlotto - Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what one high profile Cluster parent posted on another DCUM thread yesterday:

“And just to confuse you even more, I personally believe that bigger middle schools and high schools are better for kids - more course offerings, more kids to learn from, clubs, sports, etc. It's why my son is at Wilson for high school - there's no other real comprehensive (meaning full AP and Honors classes, sports team offerings, language offerings, hundreds of clubs, theater, arts, etc.) high school in the city. So, not much "choice" there.” Gina Arlotto - Capitol Hill

Gina is (in)famous for having a lot to say, including her hatred of charters because they siphon talent from neighborhood schools. She never seems to take into account that middle class parents value choice as much as the wealthy do, and the lack of good affordable choices is exactly why so many of them have been leaving DC for decades. Fortunately her S.O.S. initiative was effectively neutered.

I agree with her regarding non-residents, but she's hardly a perfect advocate for parents of public school children in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what one high profile Cluster parent posted on another DCUM thread yesterday:

“And just to confuse you even more, I personally believe that bigger middle schools and high schools are better for kids - more course offerings, more kids to learn from, clubs, sports, etc. It's why my son is at Wilson for high school - there's no other real comprehensive (meaning full AP and Honors classes, sports team offerings, language offerings, hundreds of clubs, theater, arts, etc.) high school in the city. So, not much "choice" there.” Gina Arlotto - Capitol Hill

Gina is (in)famous for having a lot to say, including her hatred of charters because they siphon talent from neighborhood schools. She never seems to take into account that middle class parents value choice as much as the wealthy do, and the lack of good affordable choices is exactly why so many of them have been leaving DC for decades. Fortunately her S.O.S. initiative was effectively neutered.

I agree with her regarding non-residents, but she's hardly a perfect advocate for parents of public school children in DC.

Thank you PP. I don't have a problem with others making different "choices" including putting their kids in mondo public schools - as long as they don't try to dictate the choice for every other parent as well. As for big school advocacy, we live in a big city, with clubs, sports, music, language, clubs, theaters and everything else within easy reach. We live in a salad bowl when it comes to activities. So why the big push to have that all under one roof? In the 'burbs, or in a rural setting, I can see the logic behind the desire for a school that has it all. But when you live in a city that has it all, who needs all that at school?