If a kid will fall in top 30-50% in TJ, is going to TJ a better idea

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

I am the (stupid) poster your are referring too.

I did not say TJ kids now aren’t prep for SAT, and I did not try to spin anything.
TJ kids now is less of students that trained to test, as prior.

And even though I am stupid, I know that in order to apply to Ivy you need to submit SAT score, but you also need to show your GPA, your HS, your rigor, classes taken, your achievement, essay, extracurricular, rec letter, economy background, social background, geography, and etc.

Do you see my point?

Yes. I understand your point.

What kind of SAT score do you have to submit with all those other thinigs? 1520 or 1440?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

So you're saying that 4 years going to TJ was possibly a good idea but it isn't today? Why?

DP - College admissions should not be the end-stage outcome nor should it be considered a pre-requisite for the end-stage outcome.

Even if it is slightly harder to get to certain schools from TJ than it is elsewhere (and I'm not convinced it is except in certain cases), it doesn't matter because college admissions just isn't that big a deal anymore.

TJ kids are increasingly exiting college early to found their companies that they'll sell for 7-8 figures and start over again. And the colleges they're leaving aren't Harvard or Princeton.

Don't screw your kid over because you're stuck in a 2005 mindset.

I think what a lot of parents don't understand is that undergrad is not really a terminal degree anymore.

Spot on. Or how easy transferring can be in a lot of cases, especially in-state.

I don't think people go to TJ thinking that college options will be worse for many (had they just stayed at their base school) but they realize they can just transfer. Our friends with current seniors are all disappointed right now (ED rejections, UVA deferrals).

I think a lot of people (including the FCPS board) have the wrong idea about TJ
It's not an award, it's an opportunity.
It's an opportunity in a "that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger" sort of way.
Admitting kids along hierarchies of equity rather than hierarchies of competency was a disservice to everyone.

It's been said on this board a thousand times and it is not controversial to say that you shouldn't go to TJ to improve college admissions results.

Yeah, why do merely smart kids deserve opportunity?

Because they are the [b]only ones that can take advantage of that opportunity. The only ones it won't kill but will actually make stronger.

🤦‍♀️ people believe this.

Because it's true.

Place an unprepared kid at TJ and they drown and fail.

Lots of smart kids don't attend TJ. Lots and lots and lots.

The questions was why the opportunity was limited to smart kids.

It may not catch all smart kids but that is an argument for expanding the program not lowering standards.

Are you implying that TJ catches the majority of smart kids in FCPS?

How did I imply that TJ catches the majority of smart kids?

I am saying that not all kids are smart enough to benefit from TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

This!

👍 +1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

This!

👍 +1000

DP: not based on assumptions. 7 different TJ families (out of 7 I talked to) all regret picking TJ over base as a result of college results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

This!

👍 +1000

The top schools all meet 100% of demonstrated need. A lot of them have full rides for any family making less than 100K and free tuition for families making less than 200K.

The reason for the reduced college admission results is the lower test scores, lower GPAs, lower extracurriculars the whole kit and kaboodle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

My friend, *colleges* don’t care about college success. They care about who is going to donate or inspire others to donate.

They want kids who are not just smart but interesting, talented, and enthusiastic.

If a kid comes to their school for four years and gets a 4.0 GPA, then proceeds to go on with their lives, works for some fantastic company and makes millions of dollars, but never accomplishes anything of significance or gives back to the school, that kid was a bad admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

My friend, *colleges* don’t care about college success. They care about who is going to donate or inspire others to donate.

They want kids who are not just smart but interesting, talented, and enthusiastic.

If a kid comes to their school for four years and gets a 4.0 GPA, then proceeds to go on with their lives, works for some fantastic company and makes millions of dollars, but never accomplishes anything of significance or gives back to the school, that kid was a bad admit.

Hi friend,

Someone mention Tj’s dropped sat scores.

A person responded: “There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.”

The follow up question was: “ Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.”

—

No idea what you were answering but the question was: Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

My friend, *colleges* don’t care about college success. They care about who is going to donate or inspire others to donate.

They want kids who are not just smart but interesting, talented, and enthusiastic.

If a kid comes to their school for four years and gets a 4.0 GPA, then proceeds to go on with their lives, works for some fantastic company and makes millions of dollars, but never accomplishes anything of significance or gives back to the school, that kid was a bad admit.

Hi friend,

Someone mention Tj’s dropped sat scores.

A person responded: “There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.”

The follow up question was: “ Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.”

—

No idea what you were answering but the question was: Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

You missed the point.

I will submit that SAT scores do a decent job of correlating with college grades.

My point, because the entire conversation is about college *admissions*, not grades, is that colleges are not selecting students based on who will get the best grades.

Indeed, they don’t care that much at all about the grades the kids get, and many schools go about inflating them anyway. They care about what the student is going to do for their reputation.

College GPA isn’t a relevant metric for understanding *anything*. So the point is that asking about it is irrelevant? and attributing SAT scores to it is even more irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

My friend, *colleges* don’t care about college success. They care about who is going to donate or inspire others to donate.

They want kids who are not just smart but interesting, talented, and enthusiastic.

If a kid comes to their school for four years and gets a 4.0 GPA, then proceeds to go on with their lives, works for some fantastic company and makes millions of dollars, but never accomplishes anything of significance or gives back to the school, that kid was a bad admit.

Hi friend,

Someone mention Tj’s dropped sat scores.

A person responded: “There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.”

The follow up question was: “ Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.”

—

No idea what you were answering but the question was: Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

You missed the point.

I will submit that SAT scores do a decent job of correlating with college grades.

My point, because the entire conversation is about college *admissions*, not grades, is that colleges are not selecting students based on who will get the best grades.

Indeed, they don’t care that much at all about the grades the kids get, and many schools go about inflating them anyway. They care about what the student is going to do for their reputation.

College GPA isn’t a relevant metric for understanding *anything*. So the point is that asking about it is irrelevant? and attributing SAT scores to it is even more irrelevant.

I didn’t miss the point. I finally got you to admit that you made a false statement claiming it is a tiresome trope to bring up SAT scores in relation to predicting college success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

My friend, *colleges* don’t care about college success. They care about who is going to donate or inspire others to donate.

They want kids who are not just smart but interesting, talented, and enthusiastic.

If a kid comes to their school for four years and gets a 4.0 GPA, then proceeds to go on with their lives, works for some fantastic company and makes millions of dollars, but never accomplishes anything of significance or gives back to the school, that kid was a bad admit.

Hi friend,

Someone mention Tj’s dropped sat scores.

A person responded: “There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.”

The follow up question was: “ Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.”

—

No idea what you were answering but the question was: Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

You missed the point.

I will submit that SAT scores do a decent job of correlating with college grades.

My point, because the entire conversation is about college *admissions*, not grades, is that colleges are not selecting students based on who will get the best grades.

Indeed, they don’t care that much at all about the grades the kids get, and many schools go about inflating them anyway. They care about what the student is going to do for their reputation.

College GPA isn’t a relevant metric for understanding *anything*. So the point is that asking about it is irrelevant? and attributing SAT scores to it is even more irrelevant.

I didn’t miss the point. I finally got you to admit that you made a false statement claiming it is a tiresome trope to bring up SAT scores in relation to predicting college success.

Different poster.
SAT score is one of the predictor of college success. So does GPA and student personality (high motivation, work ethic and such)

But the strongest predictor of college success is undoubtedly family wealth/income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

Nobody thinks that college admissions is based solely on SAT scores. A high SAT score is a necessary but not sufficient factor in elite college admissions. 1440 is not high enough to meet this bar.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids from TJ get into the real world and dominate pretty much regardless of where they go to undergrad.

The differences in opportunities as far as course availability, facilities and equipment, and student groups is just so incredibly stark when compared to even the best base schools.

So yeah, it's possible that it might be a little harder to get into the most elite colleges from TJ... but as the years and decades have gone by, the value add from those schools has been depressed significantly AND you're increasing your chances of admission by a relatively small amount - it's by no means a guarantee.

This is ridiculous. Let me guess: you're sending out annual surveys that are answered by professors and employers from senior year of HS onward? No, this is what you're telling yourself. The answer is that very bright kids generally do well no matter where they are.

That's like a base HS kid who goes to an ivy league looking at the TJ kid going to VCU and saying "kids in the top of their HSs who get into the ivies dominate because their colleges are far superior to lower ranked colleges. We have more money from the endowment pouring in!!" The answer is that bright kids are bright and do well no matter where they are, and that includes middle school to base HS OR TJ and then base HS OR TJ on to x college.

- We turned TJ down for base HS and my kid is heading to an ivy next year. It is NOT "a little" harder to getting into elite schools from TJ. It's a lot harder. We strategically picked our local HS.

This is smart.

Thanks…hard decision four years ago - but we felt it was the right one for us then and we are very glad we did it.

No offense but I don't buy that it is a LOT harder to get into elite schools from TJ.

None of the kids I know that got into HYPSM from Langley would have had much trouble at TJ.
Most of the handw5ringing these days is the gross underperformance of the kids that are getting in under the new admissions process that would not have gotten in under the prior admissions process.
Aside from that there is a fairly significant effect for kids that might have gotten into UVA from their base school that will not get in from TJ.

TJ sends almost as many kids to HYPSM as the rest of FCPS combined.

-1,000

Do you even have a current 11th-12th grade TJ student or a TJ grad from ‘25?

I'd love the answer to this...

I have a TJ grad, not '25.

Year? If you don't have current information, your input needs to be viewed through that lens. College admissions are not what they were even 4 years ago.

DP. I hate to be pedantic about this but strategizing a decision about TJ around college admissions is not a great value proposition. The delta between what you're getting at TJ vs. base school in FCPS is so much greater than the delta between typical TJ destinations and HYPSM - assuming you even get in.

- access to exceptional club opportunities *during the school day*
- access to extremely advanced STEM classes
- access to equipment and facilities that exceed what exists at many universities for first and second year students
- access to a student body that is 100% focused on school
- access to far greater athletic opportunities than are available at most FCPS schools
- access to TJ's insane alumni network

Now, if your kid can't handle it, or if your kid genuinely hates STEM, then yes, it's not the right fit. But to choose not to apply or to decline the offer without even trying it for a year for other reasons... tough to understand that.

The biggest difference in college admissions between Tj and base school is probably UVA. If UVA is a target at base school it can become a reach at TJ both because of the effect TJ rigor has on GPA and because UVA gets so many TJ applications.

But if you have what it takes to be successful at TJ, then all other things being equal, having the TJ name on your application is undeniably a benefit. The primary downside is the effect of rigor on GPA.
Top schools are used to taking more students from TJ than they are getting right now so they are not saying no to TJ because they already have too many kids from TJ.

The bolded is not factual.

Your penultimate paragraph is true: IF you will be a top TJ student, that’s better for college admissions than a top base student. Obviously, there is no way to tell where your kid’s GPA will land at TJ 3 years in, until it’s too late.

Class of 2024 had significantly better college admission results than class of 2025

You need a citation on this and it can't be the instagram feeds that only had like a quarter to a fifth of the graduating classes reporting.

Of course it can be instragram feeds. Unless you have some reason to believe that they are not similarly representative those two years?
That plus the fact that the average SAT dropped like 80 points.

Why would they be? There's no reason to assume that they are. It's not like the ones that were posted out were necessarily the best in each class.

The law of large numbers implies that a sample size this large was as representative in 20243 as it was in 2025.
That combined with the fact that SAT scores dropped by 80 points is pretty good evidence that college outcomes declined.

To this poster who wrote “SAT score dropped by 80 points” multiple times in every TJ thread (I know, you just want to emphasize it to make sure everyone read it).

The SAT score dropped 80 points is because TJ kids from new admission is different kind of kids, of course they both the same kind of smart kids.

Large percentage of old TJ kids got in because of heavy and costly test prep, and certainly they continue with heavy SAT prep to continue the rat race.

It is no longer that way, and won’t be back that way pretty soon, no matter how hard you pushed to back to the glory of test prep industry.

The “dropped SAT score” that you keep repeating doesn’t dismiss the intellectual quality of present TJ kids.

SAT score is only one factor from many of college admission.

Wait. You think the kids at TJ now aren't prepping for the SAT?!?! Are you stupid?

Going from 1520 to 1440 is a pretty big drop, no matter how you try to spin it.

Almost every Ivy+ school is going test required.

DP. Oh man, this is a short post but there's a LOT to unpack here.

1) Yeah, the kids at TJ are still prepping for the SAT. But categorically I can tell you they're not doing so nearly as obsessively, and they also don't have the same resources to afford the same quality of bespoke prep as their predecessors (on balance because we're talking about a group-wide average). The SAT and all standardized tests have been demonstrably shown to favor affluent students even when controlling for intellect, so it should come as no surprise that a class that is significantly less wealthy would score worse (but still AMAZINGLY WELL!) on standardized exams.

2) Because test-taking ability is no longer a hard and fast requirement to get into TJ, you're far more likely to have a few kids who are bringing down that average significantly as a function of their lack of experience in the standardized testing universe. My SAT score improved by 100 points - to over 1500 - the second time I took it, and I did no additional prep from round 1 to round 2.

3) With regard to almost every Ivy school going test-required... that's fine, but the deeply experienced admissions officers there aren't simply making decisions based on a student's SAT scores. They are paid handsomely to look at the student's entire profile, of which testing is one small part that feeds into a broader narrative including the student's personal circumstances.

And lastly - your original point was that "TJ college admissions outcomes are declining". And a big part of the evidence you're citing is those Instagram accounts. As embarrassing as that choice is on its face, it also has an additional flaw: You cannot assume - especially in today's less-wealthy TJ environment - that TJ students are matriculating to the most prestigious school to which they're admitted.

More and more TJ families are making college choices based on the value proposition, and some TJ students are accepting scholarships to go to less-prestigious schools or are simply choosing less expensive in-state options. GMU is becoming more popular at TJ, partly because of its rapidly growing cybersecurity program but also because kids can stay home rather than paying to live on or near campus.

You can't assume that TJ kids aren't getting admitted to elite schools just because they're not choosing to attend them.

There is actually very little to unpack. You are making excuses.

1. We know that test scores align with college grades better than any other factor and we know that it correlates with GPA regardless of income. If test scores measured income, we would expect to see rich kids underperforming their test cores and poor kids overperforming their test scores, but that is not what happens. A 1500 rich student does about as well as a 1500 poor student. https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

2. It's not a few kids bringing down the average by 80 points. It is the lower half of the class. The ones that would not have gotten in under the merit based admissions process.

3. Admissions officers are not "handsomely paid" Who told you that they are handsomely paid? Sure, they look at the applications holistically but the SATs are a big part of that and a 1440 is practically a disqualifying score for most of the top schools.

And while you can't assume that students don't always matriculate to the most prestigious schools they get into, you can assume that any of them that get into ivy+ schools are matriculating there.

Nobody is picking GMU over Ivy+. Nobody.

You can absolutely assume that if kids get into ivy+ schools, they are going to go to an Ivy+ school with few exceptions.

There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.

Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

My friend, *colleges* don’t care about college success. They care about who is going to donate or inspire others to donate.

They want kids who are not just smart but interesting, talented, and enthusiastic.

If a kid comes to their school for four years and gets a 4.0 GPA, then proceeds to go on with their lives, works for some fantastic company and makes millions of dollars, but never accomplishes anything of significance or gives back to the school, that kid was a bad admit.

Hi friend,

Someone mention Tj’s dropped sat scores.

A person responded: “There is no trope on this board more tiresome and ignorant than the idea that standardized testing has a monopoly on measuring merit.

And these people wonder why their kids have trouble getting into elite schools.”

The follow up question was: “ Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.”

—

No idea what you were answering but the question was: Please submit legit research that shows sat/act is NOT a predictor of college success.

You missed the point.

I will submit that SAT scores do a decent job of correlating with college grades.

My point, because the entire conversation is about college *admissions*, not grades, is that colleges are not selecting students based on who will get the best grades.

Indeed, they don’t care that much at all about the grades the kids get, and many schools go about inflating them anyway. They care about what the student is going to do for their reputation.

College GPA isn’t a relevant metric for understanding *anything*. So the point is that asking about it is irrelevant? and attributing SAT scores to it is even more irrelevant.

If SAT scores are so irrelevant, then why are all these schools going back to requiring test scores?

I agree that the elite colleges cares most about their reputation.
A big part of that reputation is the quality of its graduates.