Kid wants to work on Wall Street

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone has to do the back office jobs. That's where Bucknell fits in. As they say, it's a living.

What kind of pay and working hours do these mundane (?) back office jobs have?

You can do very well if you stay and move up in the ranks. Top compliance and other senior back office folks make millions as those are senior positions.

Just that it will normally take 20+ years to get there…your hours actually go up as you get more senior…you usually start at 40 hours but then you are probably 50-60 if you are getting to Director Level.

You won’t see $10MM+ bonuses like bankers and traders…but you also won’t get the axe as quickly as some of those folks.

And between IB and compliance / back office is middle market. You’re doing 70 hours a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bucknell 1000% if kid wants a path to the street and big bucks. Bucknell punches well above its weight in this regard, and the alumni network is unmatched. Rivals the ivies in this regard

Lehigh used to be just as good, if not better than Bucknell for finance. Has that really changed or are they still in the mix? Lehigh has Wall Street Alliance.

Lehigh does better than Bucknell. There’s just one poster hell bent on talking about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is silly, he's 17. He's still a kid. Tell him to get an internship during college and see what it's like, then he can decide if it's for him. I can probably count on one hand the people I know who ended up in the career they wanted when they were 17.

+ 1 million

The kid needs to work and see what he likes. He needs to learn finance and talk about it with pros.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why?

I don’t think I know a single HS kid who wants to work on Wall Street unless their parents or close adults already are.

Kids are usually more romantic. They know they need a job and need to find a major that will get them a job. But they are usually looking to 1. Be in a helping profession (doctor, teacher, social worker); 2. Be the smartest one around (collect advanced degrees); 3. Be in a follower of their passion (theatre, math, French poetry); 4. Be an entrepreneur (specifics not needed) and 5. Be like mom/dad or not be like mom/dad.

PP, where are you posting from? Because I don’t know many kids like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why?

I don’t think I know a single HS kid who wants to work on Wall Street unless their parents or close adults already are.

Kids are usually more romantic. They know they need a job and need to find a major that will get them a job. But they are usually looking to 1. Be in a helping profession (doctor, teacher, social worker); 2. Be the smartest one around (collect advanced degrees); 3. Be in a follower of their passion (theatre, math, French poetry); 4. Be an entrepreneur (specifics not needed) and 5. Be like mom/dad or not be like mom/dad.

That’s odd…I actually know several, but they don’t really know what an investment banker does. I wonder if there is some influencer on Tik Tok or something flashing their cash or something.

When I actually explain what the job actually is (for say the first five years)…at least my kid is less interested.

I actually find this entire thread somewhat laughable because investment banking really doesn’t require much intellect…you don’t need to know math above Algebra I and you don’t need to be able to write in complete sentences (it’s all PPTs with bullets)z

Most analyst classes have very high attrition rates…people like the idea of the job but never quite get what the actual job is until they are living it.

This is specifically investment banking…not trading, or P/E or quant/hedge funds.

To be fair, this is by design. Businesses don’t make it at all clear what these different roles are, because it’s not about hiring whose actually best for the job, but who went to your college and seems fun to drink with.

This is untrue, for both IB and MMB. The hiring process is rigorous and lengthy. Multiple rounds, technical questions, case studies, etc. Then you get a job and at least for my kid it’s a three month training program with more case studies and assessments (graded) before you even begin your actual job. Next up is they are all studying for the exams in the next few weeks. And there are kids there from all the schools mentioned plus non-target schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why?

I don’t think I know a single HS kid who wants to work on Wall Street unless their parents or close adults already are.

Kids are usually more romantic. They know they need a job and need to find a major that will get them a job. But they are usually looking to 1. Be in a helping profession (doctor, teacher, social worker); 2. Be the smartest one around (collect advanced degrees); 3. Be in a follower of their passion (theatre, math, French poetry); 4. Be an entrepreneur (specifics not needed) and 5. Be like mom/dad or not be like mom/dad.

This is ridiculous. My DC wants to be an engineer and design weapons for the military with neither parent having a connection to the military. Doesn't really fit under any of your numbers above unless they scribble French poetry on the missiles they want to design.

PP is right, though. They also said “usually”.
Around here though, I can see why kids focus on Wall Street as a way to get rich.

In elite college students minds, the only paths are consulting/ib/doctor/lawyer or poverty. They really need to beef up those career centers a bit

+2 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering OPs stats
NYU>Georgetown>UMich>Notre Dame> Emory>UVA>WashU>BC>Vandy

I would ED1 Emory for the best odds at getting into a school with a pipeline. Or ED1 NYU Stern as an overall best pick.

Sorry, OP's kid isn't getting into a single one of these schools with his stats. Bucknell or Colgate.

I personally don’t agree with this. These schools are reaches but worth applying to. Bucknell and Colgate simply do not place well in high finance outside of nepo hires and lucky breakthroughs. A better target school is IU Kelley of OPs kid really wants Wall Street.

My DS graduated from IU Kelley in May and is still looking for a job on Wall Street. Not sure what you guys are smoking.

There was just an article in the NYT about where finance grads are being placed. It’s TX, FL, NC - they are not going to NYC by and large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering OPs stats
NYU>Georgetown>UMich>Notre Dame> Emory>UVA>WashU>BC>Vandy

I would ED1 Emory for the best odds at getting into a school with a pipeline. Or ED1 NYU Stern as an overall best pick.

Sorry, OP's kid isn't getting into a single one of these schools with his stats. Bucknell or Colgate.

I personally don’t agree with this. These schools are reaches but worth applying to. Bucknell and Colgate simply do not place well in high finance outside of nepo hires and lucky breakthroughs. A better target school is IU Kelley of OPs kid really wants Wall Street.

My DS graduated from IU Kelley in May and is still looking for a job on Wall Street. Not sure what you guys are smoking.

There was just an article in the NYT about where finance grads are being placed. It’s TX, FL, NC - they are not going to NYC by and large.

Many places are moving. DC just moved from NY to FL for a hedge fund position. It’s a very different landscape in finance these days

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm...mine went to Princeton to work on Wall Street. Friends on Wall Street went to a myriad of schools.. ND, Georgetown, Penn, Stanford, Harvard, MIT, and one even went to Drexel. I didn't hear of any from Bucknell. Your child may need to " back door it" with those stats OP if they can' t get into a plum uni. Maybe aim for operations in an undesirable city to work in a big bank first (such as JP Morgan in Columbus, Ohio). I know someone who did that from Miami U in OH + ended up on Wall Street.

I think this will happen more frequently. So many of these kids have been stage managed by their parents…they need to work and actually perform. JPM in particular likes to promote from within.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all of you arguing over Bucknell, they actually publish an annual comprehensive list of where their most recent class is working or attending graduate school.

Here's the one from 2023:

https://www.bucknell.edu/sites/default/files/file/2024-05/final_post_grad_report_2023.pdf

There are degrees within in the school of liberal arts (economics, etc) that appear to lead to Wall Street jobs and then if you scroll further you'll come to their Business school (Freeman College of Management).

I have no affiliation with Bucknell. My son is a rising senior, we toured this summer and he decided that it's not for him.

PP, thank you for posting this. It is an excellent report. All institutions should publish similar. You can clearly see that 90% of the finance grads are in IB-adjacent fields. These are great positions! Here is an analogy: they made the pro football team, they can’t all be quarterbacks (IB analysts). It seems like most kids and parents think it’s IB Analyst or bust. It’s not. Learn the game, play, and make the team. At 17 you can’t set yourself up to be a Pro Football QB (IB Banking Analyst) or bust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all of you arguing over Bucknell, they actually publish an annual comprehensive list of where their most recent class is working or attending graduate school.

Here's the one from 2023:

https://www.bucknell.edu/sites/default/files/file/2024-05/final_post_grad_report_2023.pdf

There are degrees within in the school of liberal arts (economics, etc) that appear to lead to Wall Street jobs and then if you scroll further you'll come to their Business school (Freeman College of Management).

I have no affiliation with Bucknell. My son is a rising senior, we toured this summer and he decided that it's not for him.

PP, thank you for posting this. It is an excellent report. All institutions should publish similar. You can clearly see that 90% of the finance grads are in IB-adjacent fields. These are great positions! Here is an analogy: they made the pro football team, they can’t all be quarterbacks (IB analysts). It seems like most kids and parents think it’s IB Analyst or bust. It’s not. Learn the game, play, and make the team. At 17 you can’t set yourself up to be a Pro Football QB (IB Banking Analyst) or bust.

90% can’t be in IB adjacent fields and the average starting income is $70k, someone is lying here (hint it’s you)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all of you arguing over Bucknell, they actually publish an annual comprehensive list of where their most recent class is working or attending graduate school.

Here's the one from 2023:

https://www.bucknell.edu/sites/default/files/file/2024-05/final_post_grad_report_2023.pdf

There are degrees within in the school of liberal arts (economics, etc) that appear to lead to Wall Street jobs and then if you scroll further you'll come to their Business school (Freeman College of Management).

I have no affiliation with Bucknell. My son is a rising senior, we toured this summer and he decided that it's not for him.

PP, thank you for posting this. It is an excellent report. All institutions should publish similar. You can clearly see that 90% of the finance grads are in IB-adjacent fields. These are great positions! Here is an analogy: they made the pro football team, they can’t all be quarterbacks (IB analysts). It seems like most kids and parents think it’s IB Analyst or bust. It’s not. Learn the game, play, and make the team. At 17 you can’t set yourself up to be a Pro Football QB (IB Banking Analyst) or bust.

90% can’t be in IB adjacent fields and the average starting income is $70k, someone is lying here (hint it’s you)

This is pp. Excuse me? I don’t follow, and I’m not lying so let’s break it down.

I’m saying only 10% (that was a SWAG) are in IB; the rest are IB adjacent - so finance but not IB Analyst titles.

Where are you getting avg starting salary of 70k? I’m looking at finance grads and the actual starting salary is $89,656. Count up # of IB analysts in that major: seven out of 34 job titles. That’s actually impressive for a small program. They should be the highest paid (over the $89k average, so it follows all of the other job titles drive down the average). In the College of Arts & Sciences, there is 1 Mathematical Economics grad with an IB title at $96k average in the category (again, he would be making more).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the NESCAC schools, they all send people to Wall Street even if not a Bulge Bracket firm. G'town, BC, and ND if you're Catholic. Public Ivies all send lots of kids - UVa, MI, Berkeley, UCLA, etc. NYU is great even not if in Stern - kids can study Econ or CS and then do internships during the school year.

I went to NYU and had a ton of friends do that at hedge funds, PE shops, foreign banks, etc. It's the side door to Wall Street and its wide open.

Bucknell is fine and your kid will have a career, though it might be more middle market focused.

I think most people who talk about Wall Street and IB really have no idea about the career opps in finance. A very small % end up in IB. There are more finance jobs in Dallas than in NY now. Middle market is commercial banking - you are still with the top banks making $110 or $120 out of college; there are lots of on and off ramps to other areas of banking. You just want to avoid being stuck in operations in DE unless that is really your thing.

💯
Thank you!
I think there’s one really agitated poster on here who thinks they know investment banking, finance and banking generally and they work in IT at a bank and are hoping their kids get in.

It’s a very strange myopic view. Most of the new jobs in the industry are in the southeast, and in Texas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why?

I don’t think I know a single HS kid who wants to work on Wall Street unless their parents or close adults already are.

Kids are usually more romantic. They know they need a job and need to find a major that will get them a job. But they are usually looking to 1. Be in a helping profession (doctor, teacher, social worker); 2. Be the smartest one around (collect advanced degrees); 3. Be in a follower of their passion (theatre, math, French poetry); 4. Be an entrepreneur (specifics not needed) and 5. Be like mom/dad or not be like mom/dad.

That’s odd…I actually know several, but they don’t really know what an investment banker does. I wonder if there is some influencer on Tik Tok or something flashing their cash or something.

When I actually explain what the job actually is (for say the first five years)…at least my kid is less interested.

I actually find this entire thread somewhat laughable because investment banking really doesn’t require much intellect…you don’t need to know math above Algebra I and you don’t need to be able to write in complete sentences (it’s all PPTs with bullets)z

Most analyst classes have very high attrition rates…people like the idea of the job but never quite get what the actual job is until they are living it.

This is specifically investment banking…not trading, or P/E or quant/hedge funds.

To be fair, this is by design. Businesses don’t make it at all clear what these different roles are, because it’s not about hiring whose actually best for the job, but who went to your college and seems fun to drink with.

This is untrue, for both IB and MMB. The hiring process is rigorous and lengthy. Multiple rounds, technical questions, case studies, etc. Then you get a job and at least for my kid it’s a three month training program with more case studies and assessments (graded) before you even begin your actual job. Next up is they are all studying for the exams in the next few weeks. And there are kids there from all the schools mentioned plus non-target schools.

You think most kids know what a Fixed Income Analyst or Institutional Equity Derivatives Structuring is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the NESCAC schools, they all send people to Wall Street even if not a Bulge Bracket firm. G'town, BC, and ND if you're Catholic. Public Ivies all send lots of kids - UVa, MI, Berkeley, UCLA, etc. NYU is great even not if in Stern - kids can study Econ or CS and then do internships during the school year.

I went to NYU and had a ton of friends do that at hedge funds, PE shops, foreign banks, etc. It's the side door to Wall Street and its wide open.

Bucknell is fine and your kid will have a career, though it might be more middle market focused.

I think most people who talk about Wall Street and IB really have no idea about the career opps in finance. A very small % end up in IB. There are more finance jobs in Dallas than in NY now. Middle market is commercial banking - you are still with the top banks making $110 or $120 out of college; there are lots of on and off ramps to other areas of banking. You just want to avoid being stuck in operations in DE unless that is really your thing.

💯
Thank you!
I think there’s one really agitated poster on here who thinks they know investment banking, finance and banking generally and they work in IT at a bank and are hoping their kids get in.

It’s a very strange myopic view. Most of the new jobs in the industry are in the southeast, and in Texas.

This is a great point. "Equities in Dallas" used to be where the losers ended up. Now it's where some of the opportunities are.