Travel sports are killing American families

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, he has a point.
- injuries are real and can become chronic over time
- parents feel their child will be the next rich and famous one
- athletics are important in the US and can open some doors
- weekends do revolve around the sport like it or not. And while this type of recurring activity helps grow bonds not only between the athletes, but also between the parents, most of these bonds are “good while it lasted” and fall apart when the kid goes off to college
- siblings/family members might get resentful with focus on Jack’s sport.
- these kids miss out on other weekend opportunities to hang out with neighborhood friends, pursue other interests

I have a nephew and niece in travel sports. One is in a 2 year college D3 hoping to transfer but not getting any interest. Has had shoulder issues for years. Did not focus on academics so now his options are severely limited due to grades and he just isn’t as good as his parents thought he was. The mental pressure has made him very agitated as he tries to figure out his life without baseball.
Niece is a junior in HS and recruited to play lacrosse at a small D1 school. She feels cheated that she wasn’t picked up by a bigger school. No one on her team was. So now all we hear about is it’s the clubs fault.
Both of them could rarely attend any of their cousins (my kids) events (birthdays, sleepovers, theme parks, etc. They used to be very close until they turned 9 and then grew apart.
I think the whole travel experience is ridiculous. My sister defended it and touted how amazing the experience was/is for her kids. But at what cost? She complains now that her former travel mom friends don’t get together anymore. How her son’s club did him wrong. How her son’s shoulder injury prevented him from being selected. It’s exhausting to hear and probably more exhausting to live. When your life revolves around one thing, what do you do when it’s gone?

We held out but there were no friends to just hang out with on the weekends. Most were in sports, dance or music, and others were off on vacation bc OMG we can’t just stay home on a weekend. When our oldest expressed interest in trying out for the all-star team we said sure thinking it was just that extra post season time. Nope — the all-star team tryouts required commitment for the travel season. It does require quite a bit of time but it is chill. Our other kids also plays this sport but didn’t make a travel team until later. They are in HS and are still connected with those friends even though they are at different schools and not everyone is still playing. Their teams are extensions of the rec programs and it has been kind of nice especially since the staying to socialize plan failed. Truly, it’s a ghost town bc all the kids are in some program. In ES everyone except us had their kids at SACC / day care until dinner and then they’d go to bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s sad. The amount of time and money spent for 5-10 years and then poof!

Most kids will not play in college, most will not get scholarships, none will make the Olympics.

Life goes on. No one cares if you were in a club team and most won’t even care of you play D1.

Once you get have a job, get married and have kids none of this matters. No one cares.

Why do you think it's about other people caring? You must not be or never have been an athlete. The athletes care. My son loved playing lacrosse for as long as he could. There are no rec lacrosse teams after 6th grade around here. No desire to play in college, but he didn't keep playing because people cared that he played club lacrosse. What a weird argument against it.

But lacrosse is a weird sport with weird equipment, of course there is no wide interest in it: probably the people in clubs are the only ones playing (another reason for no one caring).

It’s been popular since the 70s in the northeast. Probably all our Canadian relatives brought it with the. It’s a really fun sport but so much safety equipment now, like hockey. There’s no high school team to play on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a total racket but “killing the American family” seems a bit much.

Our neighbors are getting divorced and she has alluded to the fact that spending most weekends apart as she took one child out of state for a soccer tournament and her husband took a different child to a different region for another sport didn’t help. They did this for like five years including the day after thanksgiving etc. This doesn’t seem great for communication particularly if you both work during the week and seems to provide a lot of temptation to cheat if you were so inclined.

This is a really weird post. Traveling or not traveling has zip to do with ability to communicate effectively, and cheaters will always cheat, while the faithful will always be faithful. Your neighbor is blaming travel sports for problems in her marriage that would have come to the breaking point no matter what.

There's really no shades of gray. The world seen through American lenses: good and evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s sad. The amount of time and money spent for 5-10 years and then poof!

Most kids will not play in college, most will not get scholarships, none will make the Olympics.

Life goes on. No one cares if you were in a club team and most won’t even care of you play D1.

Once you get have a job, get married and have kids none of this matters. No one cares.

No, then you start your own travel team and continue your lifelong passion coaching, teaching others, etc.

I'm not musical but don't begrudge people who spend a lot of time learning their instrument who will never play in college, get a scholarship, join the symphony, and will get a job like everyone else that has nothing to do with music. I don't care what they do with their time and money. They can play their instrument on the side as much as a former athlete can play their sport in the adult clubs out there.

Do you understand humor when you see it? Does it have to start with "knock-knock" or "yo mamma" for you to tell it's a joke?

Obviously it's ridiculous but we have a whole thread dedicated to "ruined American families" with people voicing this sentiment in unjoking terms. You may think you're joking but for sure people agree with you anyway. We see loads of negativity around sports but nobody starts threads to bash the musicians, chess players and spelling bee aficionados.

I haven't heard of spelling bee parents paying thousands of dollars to put their spelling bee-ers in spelling bee clubs and wasting their weekends in spelling bee tournaments. Is there a whole industry taking advantage of these poor parents?

Yes, yes there is. Costs hundreds/thousands for the materials, private coaches ($50-200 per hour), entrance fees ($750) then travel to the various qualifying competitions. Must be terrible on the family life. All those hours studying alone or in groups. Sounds a lot like a travel sport.

https://theconversation.com/what-it-takes-to-become-a-spelling-bee-champ-206046
https://money.com/national-spelling-bee-costs/

There's a difference between the need to invest $1000s in an elite child trying to be a spelling bee champion (or an elite young athlete that can realistically be a D1 athlete/pro/Olympian/or the sports equivalent) vs investing $1000s to participate in local spelling bees (which doesn't occur). The bar for entry into relatively compelling spelling bees is extremely low. The bar for entry into competitive sports is unreasonably higher.

It makes sense to pay $1000s and dedicate hundreds of hours on a kid that can be a national champion in any activity. It doesn't make sense to pay $1000s for an average child to play soccer, baseball, basketball against other average kids

[Anonymous]

It's not just team sports (which seems to be the focus of this thread). Someone mentioned spelling kids, I know a family that travels WAY more than we do with travel baseball for Robotics, there's also individual sports like gymnastics, there's dance, etc.

We do a travel sport for our older kid, but didn't start it til 13. There was a lot of pressure to start earlier, but we held out with rec until middle school and he is just as good as the other kids on his travel team who have been playing travel since age 8 or 9. We do the travel sport because our son wants to play on the high school team and it's insanely competitive. He (and we) don't think he'd learn the skills he needs from the rec option.

My younger child is really into music and while it's less travel, the schedule is just as intense with school music plus a community orchestra, private lessons, and very expensive summer camps.

My point is that all "extra curriculars" have become monetized. It's America, people! Colleges want to see these things so UMC parents are willing to pay.

The really sad thing is that it shuts out a lot of kids who don't have parental support - both in terms of time and money. And none of those kids are getting on free(ish) public school teams or auditioned bands/orchestras because they aren't getting the extra learning outside of school.

[Anonymous]

John Delony is not a medical doctor or licensed therapist, he’s someone who cosplays a physician to spout opinions base on his political inclinations. Much of what he says - at least about anxiety — is directly contrary to the findings of actual research done by real doctors. But even a stoped clock is right twice a day.

[Anonymous]

It is pretty much everything. We dropped scouting because we kept hearing from other parents in the troop: “Eagle Scout is pretty much the only thing from your youth that you can put on a resume.” They acted accordingly.

Everything starts with noble intentions. But eventually that which is good can and will be corrupted as people try to exploit and optimize it.

FOMO is the other part. Many parents will do travel sports (dance, music, robotics, spelling, etc…) because they wish they had experienced that kind of investment as children. But your kid won’t appreciate it because they never knew not having it. Indeed, they may instead grow up shunning it because they want their eventual kids to have what they did not have: a laid back childhood.

We have one in travel and one on a local club team. We’ve tried to respond to their specific needs and situations, but ultimately they may choose a different path for their own children someday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s sad. The amount of time and money spent for 5-10 years and then poof!

Most kids will not play in college, most will not get scholarships, none will make the Olympics.

Life goes on. No one cares if you were in a club team and most won’t even care of you play D1.

Once you get have a job, get married and have kids none of this matters. No one cares.

No, then you start your own travel team and continue your lifelong passion coaching, teaching others, etc.

I'm not musical but don't begrudge people who spend a lot of time learning their instrument who will never play in college, get a scholarship, join the symphony, and will get a job like everyone else that has nothing to do with music. I don't care what they do with their time and money. They can play their instrument on the side as much as a former athlete can play their sport in the adult clubs out there.

Do you understand humor when you see it? Does it have to start with "knock-knock" or "yo mamma" for you to tell it's a joke?

Obviously it's ridiculous but we have a whole thread dedicated to "ruined American families" with people voicing this sentiment in unjoking terms. You may think you're joking but for sure people agree with you anyway. We see loads of negativity around sports but nobody starts threads to bash the musicians, chess players and spelling bee aficionados.

I haven't heard of spelling bee parents paying thousands of dollars to put their spelling bee-ers in spelling bee clubs and wasting their weekends in spelling bee tournaments. Is there a whole industry taking advantage of these poor parents?

Yes, yes there is. Costs hundreds/thousands for the materials, private coaches ($50-200 per hour), entrance fees ($750) then travel to the various qualifying competitions. Must be terrible on the family life. All those hours studying alone or in groups. Sounds a lot like a travel sport.

https://theconversation.com/what-it-takes-to-become-a-spelling-bee-champ-206046
https://money.com/national-spelling-bee-costs/

There's a difference between the need to invest $1000s in an elite child trying to be a spelling bee champion (or an elite young athlete that can realistically be a D1 athlete/pro/Olympian/or the sports equivalent) vs investing $1000s to participate in local spelling bees (which doesn't occur). The bar for entry into relatively compelling spelling bees is extremely low. The bar for entry into competitive sports is unreasonably higher.

It makes sense to pay $1000s and dedicate hundreds of hours on a kid that can be a national champion in any activity. It doesn't make sense to pay $1000s for an average child to play soccer, baseball, basketball against other average kids

Only one will win and there's no predicting who will win in the beginning. So, no, it doesn't make "sense" you've just decided that some expenses align with your personal values and some don't. Because we don't actually know who will go all the way but plenty of people are willing to shoot their shot be it in sports, spelling bees, music, dance, singing, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty much everything. We dropped scouting because we kept hearing from other parents in the troop: “Eagle Scout is pretty much the only thing from your youth that you can put on a resume.” They acted accordingly.

Everything starts with noble intentions. But eventually that which is good can and will be corrupted as people try to exploit and optimize it.

FOMO is the other part. Many parents will do travel sports (dance, music, robotics, spelling, etc…) because they wish they had experienced that kind of investment as children. But your kid won’t appreciate it because they never knew not having it. Indeed, they may instead grow up shunning it because they want their eventual kids to have what they did not have: a laid back childhood.

We have one in travel and one on a local club team. We’ve tried to respond to their specific needs and situations, but ultimately they may choose a different path for their own children someday.

That’s a good point. I sometimes wonder whether the pendulum will swing the other way when the current generation grows up and has kids of their own. Maybe local rec sports and unstructured pickup games will become more popular. It’s interesting how many Olympic and pro athletes say they aren’t going to push their kids to do their sport (unless they want to).

[Anonymous]

I can't read this whole thread. Do middle schools have sports teams? That's what we did, and what fed into hs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't read this whole thread. Do middle schools have sports teams? That's what we did, and what fed into hs.

Many do. However, the seasons are short and (for many sports) those wishing to make the high school teams also play travel/club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty much everything. We dropped scouting because we kept hearing from other parents in the troop: “Eagle Scout is pretty much the only thing from your youth that you can put on a resume.” They acted accordingly.

Everything starts with noble intentions. But eventually that which is good can and will be corrupted as people try to exploit and optimize it.

FOMO is the other part. Many parents will do travel sports (dance, music, robotics, spelling, etc…) because they wish they had experienced that kind of investment as children. But your kid won’t appreciate it because they never knew not having it. Indeed, they may instead grow up shunning it because they want their eventual kids to have what they did not have: a laid back childhood.

We have one in travel and one on a local club team. We’ve tried to respond to their specific needs and situations, but ultimately they may choose a different path for their own children someday.

That’s a good point. I sometimes wonder whether the pendulum will swing the other way when the current generation grows up and has kids of their own. Maybe local rec sports and unstructured pickup games will become more popular. It’s interesting how many Olympic and pro athletes say they aren’t going to push their kids to do their sport (unless they want to).

Also interesting how many athletes have athletic kids. Maybe they don't always play the same sport, but goes to show there are inherited aspects. Famous children of athletes: Nastia Liukin, the Peyton and Eli Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Bronny James, Steph Curry, and on and on.

Nobody is going back to unstructured pick up games any more than we're going back to latch key kids. The kids aren't allowed to be unstructured or unsupervised like the good old days. So having your kids just sit out and be bored at home on weekends with nothing to do isn't going to change any minds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s sad. The amount of time and money spent for 5-10 years and then poof!

Most kids will not play in college, most will not get scholarships, none will make the Olympics.

Life goes on. No one cares if you were in a club team and most won’t even care of you play D1.

Once you get have a job, get married and have kids none of this matters. No one cares.

No, then you start your own travel team and continue your lifelong passion coaching, teaching others, etc.

I'm not musical but don't begrudge people who spend a lot of time learning their instrument who will never play in college, get a scholarship, join the symphony, and will get a job like everyone else that has nothing to do with music. I don't care what they do with their time and money. They can play their instrument on the side as much as a former athlete can play their sport in the adult clubs out there.

Do you understand humor when you see it? Does it have to start with "knock-knock" or "yo mamma" for you to tell it's a joke?

Obviously it's ridiculous but we have a whole thread dedicated to "ruined American families" with people voicing this sentiment in unjoking terms. You may think you're joking but for sure people agree with you anyway. We see loads of negativity around sports but nobody starts threads to bash the musicians, chess players and spelling bee aficionados.

Who isn’t mocking spelling bee aficionados? I thought we all were?

Well, especially now that we know how much they pay to spell words that nobody uses in real life.

They are out of shape but can spell useless words. At least sports offers health benefits.

Especially football. Who doesn't want a little bit of chronic traumatic encephalopathy?

Well for some kids that’s the best chance they have.

Football is not an easy sport and let’s face it, men are awe of players like Tom Brady and wish they could do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty much everything. We dropped scouting because we kept hearing from other parents in the troop: “Eagle Scout is pretty much the only thing from your youth that you can put on a resume.” They acted accordingly.

Everything starts with noble intentions. But eventually that which is good can and will be corrupted as people try to exploit and optimize it.

FOMO is the other part. Many parents will do travel sports (dance, music, robotics, spelling, etc…) because they wish they had experienced that kind of investment as children. But your kid won’t appreciate it because they never knew not having it. Indeed, they may instead grow up shunning it because they want their eventual kids to have what they did not have: a laid back childhood.

We have one in travel and one on a local club team. We’ve tried to respond to their specific needs and situations, but ultimately they may choose a different path for their own children someday.

That’s a good point. I sometimes wonder whether the pendulum will swing the other way when the current generation grows up and has kids of their own. Maybe local rec sports and unstructured pickup games will become more popular. It’s interesting how many Olympic and pro athletes say they aren’t going to push their kids to do their sport (unless they want to).

Also interesting how many athletes have athletic kids. Maybe they don't always play the same sport, but goes to show there are inherited aspects. Famous children of athletes: Nastia Liukin, the Peyton and Eli Manning, Patrick Mahomes, Bronny James, Steph Curry, and on and on.

Nobody is going back to unstructured pick up games any more than we're going back to latch key kids. The kids aren't allowed to be unstructured or unsupervised like the good old days. So having your kids just sit out and be bored at home on weekends with nothing to do isn't going to change any minds.

Some parents in my town started a pickup sports program recently. It’s lightly supervised, but the kids show up and organize their own games. So far it’s been successful and popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s sad. The amount of time and money spent for 5-10 years and then poof!

Most kids will not play in college, most will not get scholarships, none will make the Olympics.

Life goes on. No one cares if you were in a club team and most won’t even care of you play D1.

Once you get have a job, get married and have kids none of this matters. No one cares.

No, then you start your own travel team and continue your lifelong passion coaching, teaching others, etc.

I'm not musical but don't begrudge people who spend a lot of time learning their instrument who will never play in college, get a scholarship, join the symphony, and will get a job like everyone else that has nothing to do with music. I don't care what they do with their time and money. They can play their instrument on the side as much as a former athlete can play their sport in the adult clubs out there.

Do you understand humor when you see it? Does it have to start with "knock-knock" or "yo mamma" for you to tell it's a joke?

Obviously it's ridiculous but we have a whole thread dedicated to "ruined American families" with people voicing this sentiment in unjoking terms. You may think you're joking but for sure people agree with you anyway. We see loads of negativity around sports but nobody starts threads to bash the musicians, chess players and spelling bee aficionados.

I haven't heard of spelling bee parents paying thousands of dollars to put their spelling bee-ers in spelling bee clubs and wasting their weekends in spelling bee tournaments. Is there a whole industry taking advantage of these poor parents?

Yes, yes there is. Costs hundreds/thousands for the materials, private coaches ($50-200 per hour), entrance fees ($750) then travel to the various qualifying competitions. Must be terrible on the family life. All those hours studying alone or in groups. Sounds a lot like a travel sport.

https://theconversation.com/what-it-takes-to-become-a-spelling-bee-champ-206046
https://money.com/national-spelling-bee-costs/

There's a difference between the need to invest $1000s in an elite child trying to be a spelling bee champion (or an elite young athlete that can realistically be a D1 athlete/pro/Olympian/or the sports equivalent) vs investing $1000s to participate in local spelling bees (which doesn't occur). The bar for entry into relatively compelling spelling bees is extremely low. The bar for entry into competitive sports is unreasonably higher.

It makes sense to pay $1000s and dedicate hundreds of hours on a kid that can be a national champion in any activity. It doesn't make sense to pay $1000s for an average child to play soccer, baseball, basketball against other average kids

Only one will win and there's no predicting who will win in the beginning. So, no, it doesn't make "sense" you've just decided that some expenses align with your personal values and some don't. Because we don't actually know who will go all the way but plenty of people are willing to shoot their shot be it in sports, spelling bees, music, dance, singing, etc.

Well, you just need to convince enough parents that their kids have no chance to make the high school team without club experience, and they are willing to throw 1000s of dollars at the clubs. And yes, you can predict that most of the kids are not going to get a college scholarships and / or go to the Olympics. After one season, you can likely predict who is not even going to make the high school teams. But it's too tempting to milk the parents and maintain ther belief that Billy can become special if they spend more money on this hobby.