Reasons why one would not accept TJ offer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is significantly and by a large margin much harder than base HS.

Experience of same kid at base HS and TJ. Kid moved to TJ in 10th grade.

At base HS, all homework is finished at school itself and child home by 3 PM. Absolutely no additional effort needed at home - child took 2 AP classes in 9th, even then school is pretty easy. Tests took maybe 15 minutes more of effort at home. Grade book frequently had 100+ scores out of 100 in many subjects because they give bonus points for some things.

At TJ, the amount of effort is lot more. 2-3 hours per day. Highly kid dependent but heard lot of classmates were spending a lot more time. Some courses are at the same level of rigor as college.

At base HS if you understand the content you are good for an A. At TJ, you need in depth understanding of the subject. So you need to be able to apply the concept in a different situation, so you need to understand it very thoroughly. About 20% of test questions are in this category.

At TJ you get a fantastic education. But when applying to colleges, it might be a slight disadvantage for the top colleges.

At base child's recommendations would have been off the chart. Child was able to get into a very selective program from base HS because one teacher wrote something like "never saw anyone like this in my 18 years of teaching...".

At TJ, same child would get a good recommendation but nothing like at base HS. In one activity child is in top 100 in nation but there is at least one child every two years who is in the top 10. So the recommendation letters would likewise be much less strong coming from TJ than at base HS.

For our second child we decided not to go to TJ.

TJ is the right place for child 1 but not for child 2.

+1

You have to take a step beyond this, though.

Child 1 learns to self-study at TJ, gets into mediocre state school, excels with 4.0 GPA and amazes all her professors who usually don't see this type of student. Gets great recommendation to get into Ivy+ grad school (free since they would be grad TAs). Child 2 is at the top of their class at Base HS and is shocked at when Ivy+ Econ 101 is using grad-level differential equations (based on a true story, BTW). Child 2 has a mediocre (and expensive) Ivy+ undergrad and goes to Mediocre Grad school.

What's the better outcome?

Who has the better SAT?

[Anonymous]

Do they allow retakes at TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do they allow retakes at TJ?

Yes in some classes at least (maybe all?) but I think only up to a certain score. Also I would think it is hard to stay caught up if you need to rely on that net too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do they allow retakes at TJ?

Yes in some classes at least (maybe all?) but I think only up to a certain score. Also I would think it is hard to stay caught up if you need to rely on that net too much.

Per my freshman TJ kid just now, the answer is no, but there are ways to get points back through corrections and recovery points. I’ve looked at the syllabi, and it’s actually pretty complicated.

[Anonymous]

How are this year's freshmen doing so far?

[Anonymous]

Has freshman year always been this easy? or is freshman the calm before the storm?

[Anonymous]

Parents really need to get out of their head the idea that there is (or should be) anything objective about the admissions process at any college.

Colleges, because they have the freedom to do so, evaluate the entire admissions profile and make decisions about how to put together a class that fits and achieves the goals of the university, whatever they might be. Businesses do the same thing when they hire people.

UVA admits and gives full scholarships to kids with low-3 GPAs and 11-1200 SAT scores because they need help on the football, baseball, or lacrosse team. They have the right to do that and it's in their best interest to do so. They have the capacity to admit more students than they might otherwise because of money that flows in either directly from their extremely successful athletic program or because of donations that are inspired by their extremely successful athletic program. That's how many colleges work.

Stop obsessing over all of the metrics - they matter a lot less than you think they do - and start developing kids that universities believe will either give donations or inspire them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents really need to get out of their head the idea that there is (or should be) anything objective about the admissions process at any college.

Colleges, because they have the freedom to do so, evaluate the entire admissions profile and make decisions about how to put together a class that fits and achieves the goals of the university, whatever they might be. Businesses do the same thing when they hire people.

UVA admits and gives full scholarships to kids with low-3 GPAs and 11-1200 SAT scores because they need help on the football, baseball, or lacrosse team. They have the right to do that and it's in their best interest to do so. They have the capacity to admit more students than they might otherwise because of money that flows in either directly from their extremely successful athletic program or because of donations that are inspired by their extremely successful athletic program. That's how many colleges work.

Stop obsessing over all of the metrics - they matter a lot less than you think they do - and start developing kids that universities believe will either give donations or inspire them.

To follow up on this - parents and students who spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the "magic formula" are wasting their time. There isn't one.

Schools are looking for what they are looking for and they don't publish that information for very understandable reasons. And what they are looking for changes constantly in response to how each admitted class looks and how each admitted class performs.

I don't blame parents for wanting to understand exactly what the rules of the game are so that they can follow them to the letter - but expecting that schools are going to tell you exactly what to do, or even have an explicit set of rules that they follow relentlessly, is just silly nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents really need to get out of their head the idea that there is (or should be) anything objective about the admissions process at any college.

Colleges, because they have the freedom to do so, evaluate the entire admissions profile and make decisions about how to put together a class that fits and achieves the goals of the university, whatever they might be. Businesses do the same thing when they hire people.

UVA admits and gives full scholarships to kids with low-3 GPAs and 11-1200 SAT scores because they need help on the football, baseball, or lacrosse team. They have the right to do that and it's in their best interest to do so. They have the capacity to admit more students than they might otherwise because of money that flows in either directly from their extremely successful athletic program or because of donations that are inspired by their extremely successful athletic program. That's how many colleges work.

Stop obsessing over all of the metrics - they matter a lot less than you think they do - and start developing kids that universities believe will either give donations or inspire them.

To follow up on this - parents and students who spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the "magic formula" are wasting their time. There isn't one.

Schools are looking for what they are looking for and they don't publish that information for very understandable reasons. And what they are looking for changes constantly in response to how each admitted class looks and how each admitted class performs.

I don't blame parents for wanting to understand exactly what the rules of the game are so that they can follow them to the letter - but expecting that schools are going to tell you exactly what to do, or even have an explicit set of rules that they follow relentlessly, is just silly nonsense.

That's a presumptuous thing to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents really need to get out of their head the idea that there is (or should be) anything objective about the admissions process at any college.

Colleges, because they have the freedom to do so, evaluate the entire admissions profile and make decisions about how to put together a class that fits and achieves the goals of the university, whatever they might be. Businesses do the same thing when they hire people.

UVA admits and gives full scholarships to kids with low-3 GPAs and 11-1200 SAT scores because they need help on the football, baseball, or lacrosse team. They have the right to do that and it's in their best interest to do so. They have the capacity to admit more students than they might otherwise because of money that flows in either directly from their extremely successful athletic program or because of donations that are inspired by their extremely successful athletic program. That's how many colleges work.

Stop obsessing over all of the metrics - they matter a lot less than you think they do - and start developing kids that universities believe will either give donations or inspire them.

To follow up on this - parents and students who spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the "magic formula" are wasting their time. There isn't one.

Schools are looking for what they are looking for and they don't publish that information for very understandable reasons. And what they are looking for changes constantly in response to how each admitted class looks and how each admitted class performs.

I don't blame parents for wanting to understand exactly what the rules of the game are so that they can follow them to the letter - but expecting that schools are going to tell you exactly what to do, or even have an explicit set of rules that they follow relentlessly, is just silly nonsense.

That's a presumptuous thing to say.

Uhhh, how so? NP but seems pretty spot on to me, and franky empathetic, but certainly nothing there that seems particularly bold or out-of-bounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents really need to get out of their head the idea that there is (or should be) anything objective about the admissions process at any college.

Colleges, because they have the freedom to do so, evaluate the entire admissions profile and make decisions about how to put together a class that fits and achieves the goals of the university, whatever they might be. Businesses do the same thing when they hire people.

UVA admits and gives full scholarships to kids with low-3 GPAs and 11-1200 SAT scores because they need help on the football, baseball, or lacrosse team. They have the right to do that and it's in their best interest to do so. They have the capacity to admit more students than they might otherwise because of money that flows in either directly from their extremely successful athletic program or because of donations that are inspired by their extremely successful athletic program. That's how many colleges work.

Stop obsessing over all of the metrics - they matter a lot less than you think they do - and start developing kids that universities believe will either give donations or inspire them.

To follow up on this - parents and students who spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the "magic formula" are wasting their time. There isn't one.

Schools are looking for what they are looking for and they don't publish that information for very understandable reasons. And what they are looking for changes constantly in response to how each admitted class looks and how each admitted class performs.

I don't blame parents for wanting to understand exactly what the rules of the game are so that they can follow them to the letter - but expecting that schools are going to tell you exactly what to do, or even have an explicit set of rules that they follow relentlessly, is just silly nonsense.

That's a presumptuous thing to say.

PP. How is all of that presumptuous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents really need to get out of their head the idea that there is (or should be) anything objective about the admissions process at any college.

Colleges, because they have the freedom to do so, evaluate the entire admissions profile and make decisions about how to put together a class that fits and achieves the goals of the university, whatever they might be. Businesses do the same thing when they hire people.

UVA admits and gives full scholarships to kids with low-3 GPAs and 11-1200 SAT scores because they need help on the football, baseball, or lacrosse team. They have the right to do that and it's in their best interest to do so. They have the capacity to admit more students than they might otherwise because of money that flows in either directly from their extremely successful athletic program or because of donations that are inspired by their extremely successful athletic program. That's how many colleges work.

Stop obsessing over all of the metrics - they matter a lot less than you think they do - and start developing kids that universities believe will either give donations or inspire them.

To follow up on this - parents and students who spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the "magic formula" are wasting their time. There isn't one.

Schools are looking for what they are looking for and they don't publish that information for very understandable reasons. And what they are looking for changes constantly in response to how each admitted class looks and how each admitted class performs.

I don't blame parents for wanting to understand exactly what the rules of the game are so that they can follow them to the letter - but expecting that schools are going to tell you exactly what to do, or even have an explicit set of rules that they follow relentlessly, is just silly nonsense.

That's a presumptuous thing to say.

Uhhh, how so? NP but seems pretty spot on to me, and franky empathetic, but certainly nothing there that seems particularly bold or out-of-bounds.

Thank you for the kind words. It's just reality - elite college admissions, just like applying for a high-paying job, is incredibly competitive and in the end, the selecting entity is going to do what's in their self-interest - that's how free markets work. It's not that complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are this year's freshmen doing so far?

Other than Math, what courses are considered difficult in Freshman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is significantly and by a large margin much harder than base HS.

Experience of same kid at base HS and TJ. Kid moved to TJ in 10th grade.

At base HS, all homework is finished at school itself and child home by 3 PM. Absolutely no additional effort needed at home - child took 2 AP classes in 9th, even then school is pretty easy. Tests took maybe 15 minutes more of effort at home. Grade book frequently had 100+ scores out of 100 in many subjects because they give bonus points for some things.

At TJ, the amount of effort is lot more. 2-3 hours per day. Highly kid dependent but heard lot of classmates were spending a lot more time. Some courses are at the same level of rigor as college.

At base HS if you understand the content you are good for an A. At TJ, you need in depth understanding of the subject. So you need to be able to apply the concept in a different situation, so you need to understand it very thoroughly. About 20% of test questions are in this category.

At TJ you get a fantastic education. But when applying to colleges, it might be a slight disadvantage for the top colleges.

At base child's recommendations would have been off the chart. Child was able to get into a very selective program from base HS because one teacher wrote something like "never saw anyone like this in my 18 years of teaching...".

At TJ, same child would get a good recommendation but nothing like at base HS. In one activity child is in top 100 in nation but there is at least one child every two years who is in the top 10. So the recommendation letters would likewise be much less strong coming from TJ than at base HS.

For our second child we decided not to go to TJ.

TJ is the right place for child 1 but not for child 2.

+1

You have to take a step beyond this, though.

Child 1 learns to self-study at TJ, gets into mediocre state school, excels with 4.0 GPA and amazes all her professors who usually don't see this type of student. Gets great recommendation to get into Ivy+ grad school (free since they would be grad TAs). Child 2 is at the top of their class at Base HS and is shocked at when Ivy+ Econ 101 is using grad-level differential equations (based on a true story, BTW). Child 2 has a mediocre (and expensive) Ivy+ undergrad and goes to Mediocre Grad school.

What's the better outcome?

This is a fascinating twist of events. If TJ is right for child 1, can I assume that child 1 is the smarter? Did child 1 do better in college because (1) he/she is smarter and would have succeeded anywhere (2) acquired rigorous study habit from TJ which helped with college, or (3) went to a state school and was able to stand out instead of a harder IVY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents really need to get out of their head the idea that there is (or should be) anything objective about the admissions process at any college.

Colleges, because they have the freedom to do so, evaluate the entire admissions profile and make decisions about how to put together a class that fits and achieves the goals of the university, whatever they might be. Businesses do the same thing when they hire people.

UVA admits and gives full scholarships to kids with low-3 GPAs and 11-1200 SAT scores because they need help on the football, baseball, or lacrosse team. They have the right to do that and it's in their best interest to do so. They have the capacity to admit more students than they might otherwise because of money that flows in either directly from their extremely successful athletic program or because of donations that are inspired by their extremely successful athletic program. That's how many colleges work.

Stop obsessing over all of the metrics - they matter a lot less than you think they do - and start developing kids that universities believe will either give donations or inspire them.

To follow up on this - parents and students who spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the "magic formula" are wasting their time. There isn't one.

Schools are looking for what they are looking for and they don't publish that information for very understandable reasons. And what they are looking for changes constantly in response to how each admitted class looks and how each admitted class performs.

I don't blame parents for wanting to understand exactly what the rules of the game are so that they can follow them to the letter - but expecting that schools are going to tell you exactly what to do, or even have an explicit set of rules that they follow relentlessly, is just silly nonsense.

That's a presumptuous thing to say.

Uhhh, how so? NP but seems pretty spot on to me, and franky empathetic, but certainly nothing there that seems particularly bold or out-of-bounds.

Really? Everyone on this board is obsessing over all the metrics which is a problem because metrics do not equate to acceptance rate? I disagree. All else being equal, the higher the score, the better the odds.