Considering moving to DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hate to break it to y'all.

https://www2.ed.gov/datastory/stem/algebra/index.html

In America, only 24% of public school students take algebra in 8th grade.


There is also research that suggests that every student is not actually ready for Algebra even in 8th grade (and before). https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/working_papers/WR1200/WR1209/RAND_WR1209.pdf
https://www.nctm.org/News-and-Calendar/Messages-from-the-President/Archive/Linda-M_-Gojak/Algebra_-Not-_If_-but-_When_/
https://hechingerreport.org/kids-are-failing-algebra-the-solution-slow-down/

This area is not representative of general America. You obviously don’t realize that the DC area is the most highly educated area in the country. DC is the most highly educated city in the country.

For Algebra to be consider advance in 8th grade with this premise is a low caliber. The kids have so much more potential that is not being met. That is how DCPS tries to narrow the achievement gap but lowering the potential of the top. Story as old as tine.

The articles mentioned are not parents' socioeconomic level or education level, its about what is developmentally appropriate for kids.

So you seriously don’t think there is a good cohort of kids who are able to do Algebra earlier than 8th grade? I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Just look at TJ.

Of course there is. But there are also parents, like those on this board pushing their kids to go faster and faster so they can claim how amazing their kid is (even before their kid is ready). There are high achieving students who admit they didn't truly understand math at certain levels, but they were pushed and figured out their way through.

sure, but calling algebra in 8th grade accelerated is total DCPS bullcrap.

It simply gets you to calculus in high school.

So you're saying that anyone who does calculus in high school is "ACCELERATED", according to DCPS?

Could we lower the standard anymore? It's just pathetic.

I don't consider calculus in high school to be accelerated but also not all kids need to do calculus (at all, not just not in high school). It's fine for many if not most students to take Algebra and Geometry and go no further.

A truly accelerated student could take college courses in high school after completing high school calc. In DC this is much easier than in other locations where a college course might not be available nearby.

The problem in DC is that EVERY UMC family thinks their kid is accelerated simply because they are bright. They aren't! It's totally fine for a bright, engaged student to take Algebra in 8th grade and take Calc or not in high school. Many college majors will expect students to have a basis in calculus and that sets you up for those majors and helps avoid needing to take a remedial math course in college. That's enough for the vast majority of students.

I'm fine with tracking but that's different from what people on this board are talking about where what the really want is for their child to be in a special class with all the "smart" kids and never be bored or feel average.

Wow. No, no that is not fine.

Why not? Most people do not use Calculus as adults, at work or in their private lives. Most people who work in finance don't even use calculus! You need it for STEM fields. Not everyone is going into STEM.

The main reason people (in general but especially in this area and on DCUM) want their kids to take calculus, outside of a genuine interest and/or aptitude in math that indicates they might pursue STEM, is because it is an AP class and people want APs for weighted GPAs and for college transcripts. The end. It's also why people want their kids to take AP Physics, AP English, AP History, AP languages, etc. But it's not a course people actually need. You can skip calculus and go into almost any non-STEM field and be fine. You can do advanced statistics without calculus (I know because I do advanced statistics and data analysis for work and I never took calculus -- any I might use were learned easily on the job and no further basis was needed).

I want my kid to have the opportunity to take Calculus and for that reason I want a middle school that ensures my child can take Algebra by 8th at the latest. If she is very interested in and talented at math, I will make sure she can get it in 7th if that's what makes sense. But if she's just an average math student, I am fine with 8th and no, I don't think those are low expectations. There are lots of other things I want my kid to learn and if she never takes calculus at all, I won't worry that she will somehow be handicapped for life by it.

People in this area are INSANE about this stuff, as though if you aren't taking algebra by 7th grade you might as well just lay down and die. People need to chill out, your obsessive intensity about academic achievement is worse for you kid than these alleged "low expectations."

You are incorrect. There are lots of kids who are interested in taking AP courses, kids who are bored and not challenged, kids who love a subject. The AP courses are there for the kids, not the parents. Taking only courses that you need for some future job is not the purpose of education.

Also I don’t really care what expectations parents have but for a school district to not widely offer a track past calculus when we know students are capable of this is a school district that has low expectations of its students. The end.

What is this "track past Calculus" you are talking about? Are there actually high schools offering differential equations or linear algebra in high school? And are there kids who have no intention of pursuing degrees in math, engineering, or hard sciences who take them? It's okay to just take that stuff in college, where you can be taught by someone with a PhD. It would be incredibly hard to find high school math teachers capable of teaching these subjects, and even if you did, the odds are good you'd be expected to retake them in college because it's just very unlikely that a high school class, even at a very good school, could be rigorous enough to master these concepts.

Sorry, but Calc I and maybe Calc II are more than enough for most high school students. This is not low expectations, this is realistic. High school is not intended to be college. These are children.

Also, hate to be the one to break this to you, but a kid taking Calculus their junior or senior year who feels insufficiently challenged? Doesn't need a harder math class. They need a different approach to life. You want a challenge? Get an A+ in Calc and a perfect score on your AP exam. Too easy? Okay great, develop the life skills needed to find out which local universities offer higher level math and investigate taking one, or even just auditing it -- smart, ambitious kid who is bored by his current AP classes should find a complex problem like that engaging to solve. Use your social skills to reach out to the professor to ask permission to take their course. Talk to you parents about tuition or see if you can audit it for a reduced price or for free. Talk to your school's administration about getting credit.

The answer to "my child isn't challenged in his high school calculus class" is not "the school district should be offering college level math in junior year." It's to figure out what other skills your kid needs to work on and to work on them. Taking a difficult course load in high school is impressive but not sufficient. It's not up to the school district to ensure that you can specialize in every possible academic area in high school. Do something you are bad at. Join the wrestling team, audition for the school musical, challenge yourself to make a new group of friends.

Many DCPS high schools are inadequate but the idea that the main problem is that middle school students aren't taking algebra in 7th grade is insane. That's not the problem.

+100

And just as a note, this is taken from Harvard's website:

"Specifically, calculus is neither a requirement nor a preference for admission to Harvard. We understand that many students have no intention to pursue college coursework that requires a knowledge of calculus, and that other students are unsure of their future college studies. We also understand that not all students have the same opportunities to take certain math classes in high school, including calculus. Thus, we encourage applicants to pursue the pathways through math that are available to them and aligned with their interests and goals."

https://college.harvard.edu/resources/faq/are-there-secondary-school-course-requirements-admission

It’s obvious the above is targeting kids in poorly performing schools that don’t offer calculus, likely are URM. They say that but you are truly delusional if you don’t think that all the other kids getting in at least have taken the minimum of calculus.

If you are not even strong enough in math to go this basic track, I highly doubt you will have the scores and stats needed to even be considered. Above is any major but if you are interested in STEM without calculus, forget about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hate to break it to y'all.

https://www2.ed.gov/datastory/stem/algebra/index.html

In America, only 24% of public school students take algebra in 8th grade.


There is also research that suggests that every student is not actually ready for Algebra even in 8th grade (and before). https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/working_papers/WR1200/WR1209/RAND_WR1209.pdf
https://www.nctm.org/News-and-Calendar/Messages-from-the-President/Archive/Linda-M_-Gojak/Algebra_-Not-_If_-but-_When_/
https://hechingerreport.org/kids-are-failing-algebra-the-solution-slow-down/

This area is not representative of general America. You obviously don’t realize that the DC area is the most highly educated area in the country. DC is the most highly educated city in the country.

For Algebra to be consider advance in 8th grade with this premise is a low caliber. The kids have so much more potential that is not being met. That is how DCPS tries to narrow the achievement gap but lowering the potential of the top. Story as old as tine.

The articles mentioned are not parents' socioeconomic level or education level, its about what is developmentally appropriate for kids.

So you seriously don’t think there is a good cohort of kids who are able to do Algebra earlier than 8th grade? I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Just look at TJ.

Of course there is. But there are also parents, like those on this board pushing their kids to go faster and faster so they can claim how amazing their kid is (even before their kid is ready). There are high achieving students who admit they didn't truly understand math at certain levels, but they were pushed and figured out their way through.

sure, but calling algebra in 8th grade accelerated is total DCPS bullcrap.

It simply gets you to calculus in high school.

So you're saying that anyone who does calculus in high school is "ACCELERATED", according to DCPS?

Could we lower the standard anymore? It's just pathetic.

I don't consider calculus in high school to be accelerated but also not all kids need to do calculus (at all, not just not in high school). It's fine for many if not most students to take Algebra and Geometry and go no further.

A truly accelerated student could take college courses in high school after completing high school calc. In DC this is much easier than in other locations where a college course might not be available nearby.

The problem in DC is that EVERY UMC family thinks their kid is accelerated simply because they are bright. They aren't! It's totally fine for a bright, engaged student to take Algebra in 8th grade and take Calc or not in high school. Many college majors will expect students to have a basis in calculus and that sets you up for those majors and helps avoid needing to take a remedial math course in college. That's enough for the vast majority of students.

I'm fine with tracking but that's different from what people on this board are talking about where what the really want is for their child to be in a special class with all the "smart" kids and never be bored or feel average.

Wow. No, no that is not fine.

Why not? Most people do not use Calculus as adults, at work or in their private lives. Most people who work in finance don't even use calculus! You need it for STEM fields. Not everyone is going into STEM.

The main reason people (in general but especially in this area and on DCUM) want their kids to take calculus, outside of a genuine interest and/or aptitude in math that indicates they might pursue STEM, is because it is an AP class and people want APs for weighted GPAs and for college transcripts. The end. It's also why people want their kids to take AP Physics, AP English, AP History, AP languages, etc. But it's not a course people actually need. You can skip calculus and go into almost any non-STEM field and be fine. You can do advanced statistics without calculus (I know because I do advanced statistics and data analysis for work and I never took calculus -- any I might use were learned easily on the job and no further basis was needed).

I want my kid to have the opportunity to take Calculus and for that reason I want a middle school that ensures my child can take Algebra by 8th at the latest. If she is very interested in and talented at math, I will make sure she can get it in 7th if that's what makes sense. But if she's just an average math student, I am fine with 8th and no, I don't think those are low expectations. There are lots of other things I want my kid to learn and if she never takes calculus at all, I won't worry that she will somehow be handicapped for life by it.

People in this area are INSANE about this stuff, as though if you aren't taking algebra by 7th grade you might as well just lay down and die. People need to chill out, your obsessive intensity about academic achievement is worse for you kid than these alleged "low expectations."

You are incorrect. There are lots of kids who are interested in taking AP courses, kids who are bored and not challenged, kids who love a subject. The AP courses are there for the kids, not the parents. Taking only courses that you need for some future job is not the purpose of education.

Also I don’t really care what expectations parents have but for a school district to not widely offer a track past calculus when we know students are capable of this is a school district that has low expectations of its students. The end.

What is this "track past Calculus" you are talking about? Are there actually high schools offering differential equations or linear algebra in high school? And are there kids who have no intention of pursuing degrees in math, engineering, or hard sciences who take them? It's okay to just take that stuff in college, where you can be taught by someone with a PhD. It would be incredibly hard to find high school math teachers capable of teaching these subjects, and even if you did, the odds are good you'd be expected to retake them in college because it's just very unlikely that a high school class, even at a very good school, could be rigorous enough to master these concepts.

Sorry, but Calc I and maybe Calc II are more than enough for most high school students. This is not low expectations, this is realistic. High school is not intended to be college. These are children.

Also, hate to be the one to break this to you, but a kid taking Calculus their junior or senior year who feels insufficiently challenged? Doesn't need a harder math class. They need a different approach to life. You want a challenge? Get an A+ in Calc and a perfect score on your AP exam. Too easy? Okay great, develop the life skills needed to find out which local universities offer higher level math and investigate taking one, or even just auditing it -- smart, ambitious kid who is bored by his current AP classes should find a complex problem like that engaging to solve. Use your social skills to reach out to the professor to ask permission to take their course. Talk to you parents about tuition or see if you can audit it for a reduced price or for free. Talk to your school's administration about getting credit.

The answer to "my child isn't challenged in his high school calculus class" is not "the school district should be offering college level math in junior year." It's to figure out what other skills your kid needs to work on and to work on them. Taking a difficult course load in high school is impressive but not sufficient. It's not up to the school district to ensure that you can specialize in every possible academic area in high school. Do something you are bad at. Join the wrestling team, audition for the school musical, challenge yourself to make a new group of friends.

Many DCPS high schools are inadequate but the idea that the main problem is that middle school students aren't taking algebra in 7th grade is insane. That's not the problem.

+100

And just as a note, this is taken from Harvard's website:

"Specifically, calculus is neither a requirement nor a preference for admission to Harvard. We understand that many students have no intention to pursue college coursework that requires a knowledge of calculus, and that other students are unsure of their future college studies. We also understand that not all students have the same opportunities to take certain math classes in high school, including calculus. Thus, we encourage applicants to pursue the pathways through math that are available to them and aligned with their interests and goals."

https://college.harvard.edu/resources/faq/are-there-secondary-school-course-requirements-admission

It’s obvious the above is targeting kids in poorly performing schools that don’t offer calculus, likely are URM. They say that but you are truly delusional if you don’t think that all the other kids getting in at least have taken the minimum of calculus.

If you are not even strong enough in math to go this basic track, I highly doubt you will have the scores and stats needed to even be considered. Above is any major but if you are interested in STEM without calculus, forget about it.

Sure, if a UMC applicant whose school offers Calculus and who expressed an interest in a STEM field in their application did not take calculus, I'm sure that would send up a red flag for the person reviewing the application because it indicates they are not taking advantage of opportunities offered to them and that raises the question of whether or not they would adequately take advantage of the many opportunities a school like Harvard can option.

But the point is that for a student with no interest in STEM but clear demonstrated interests in other areas, and a stellar transcript, but no calculus, the lack of calculus is not going to be the determining factor. The admissions office isn't going to be like "oh they have phenomenal test scores, started a business their junior year, are fully bilingual, have a 4.5 GPA, and won a national fiction competition, but they didn't take calculus, so obviously they don't care to challenge themselves." That would be silly. Calculus is not required for many fields of study and an ambitious kid who is engaged and excelling in other areas need not take it just to get into a good college. That's the point.

And yes, for students who do not have the good fortune to attend strong schools that offer calculus or other AP classes, it enables Harvard to evaluate that applicant holistically without just doing a one to one comparison to the many much more privileged applicants. That's Harvard's prerogative and enables them to admit a more diverse class that includes students from less advantaged backgrounds. You know, like some of the many DCPS students who are very bright but are underserved by the cities MS and HS options. Sounds fine.

It's not some kind of trick. When Harvard says "calculus is not a prerequisite" they mean it. You have to figure out if it makes sense for your specific student to take it or not, but that's a judgement call like anything else. The policy itself is transparent.

Most students at Harvard don't go into STEM fields, actually. MIT or CalTech likely has a different perspective on this, and with reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hate to break it to y'all.

https://www2.ed.gov/datastory/stem/algebra/index.html

In America, only 24% of public school students take algebra in 8th grade.


There is also research that suggests that every student is not actually ready for Algebra even in 8th grade (and before). https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/working_papers/WR1200/WR1209/RAND_WR1209.pdf
https://www.nctm.org/News-and-Calendar/Messages-from-the-President/Archive/Linda-M_-Gojak/Algebra_-Not-_If_-but-_When_/
https://hechingerreport.org/kids-are-failing-algebra-the-solution-slow-down/

This area is not representative of general America. You obviously don’t realize that the DC area is the most highly educated area in the country. DC is the most highly educated city in the country.

For Algebra to be consider advance in 8th grade with this premise is a low caliber. The kids have so much more potential that is not being met. That is how DCPS tries to narrow the achievement gap but lowering the potential of the top. Story as old as tine.

The articles mentioned are not parents' socioeconomic level or education level, its about what is developmentally appropriate for kids.

So you seriously don’t think there is a good cohort of kids who are able to do Algebra earlier than 8th grade? I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

Just look at TJ.

Of course there is. But there are also parents, like those on this board pushing their kids to go faster and faster so they can claim how amazing their kid is (even before their kid is ready). There are high achieving students who admit they didn't truly understand math at certain levels, but they were pushed and figured out their way through.

sure, but calling algebra in 8th grade accelerated is total DCPS bullcrap.

It simply gets you to calculus in high school.

So you're saying that anyone who does calculus in high school is "ACCELERATED", according to DCPS?

Could we lower the standard anymore? It's just pathetic.

I don't consider calculus in high school to be accelerated but also not all kids need to do calculus (at all, not just not in high school). It's fine for many if not most students to take Algebra and Geometry and go no further.

A truly accelerated student could take college courses in high school after completing high school calc. In DC this is much easier than in other locations where a college course might not be available nearby.

The problem in DC is that EVERY UMC family thinks their kid is accelerated simply because they are bright. They aren't! It's totally fine for a bright, engaged student to take Algebra in 8th grade and take Calc or not in high school. Many college majors will expect students to have a basis in calculus and that sets you up for those majors and helps avoid needing to take a remedial math course in college. That's enough for the vast majority of students.

I'm fine with tracking but that's different from what people on this board are talking about where what the really want is for their child to be in a special class with all the "smart" kids and never be bored or feel average.

Wow. No, no that is not fine.

Why not? Most people do not use Calculus as adults, at work or in their private lives. Most people who work in finance don't even use calculus! You need it for STEM fields. Not everyone is going into STEM.

The main reason people (in general but especially in this area and on DCUM) want their kids to take calculus, outside of a genuine interest and/or aptitude in math that indicates they might pursue STEM, is because it is an AP class and people want APs for weighted GPAs and for college transcripts. The end. It's also why people want their kids to take AP Physics, AP English, AP History, AP languages, etc. But it's not a course people actually need. You can skip calculus and go into almost any non-STEM field and be fine. You can do advanced statistics without calculus (I know because I do advanced statistics and data analysis for work and I never took calculus -- any I might use were learned easily on the job and no further basis was needed).

I want my kid to have the opportunity to take Calculus and for that reason I want a middle school that ensures my child can take Algebra by 8th at the latest. If she is very interested in and talented at math, I will make sure she can get it in 7th if that's what makes sense. But if she's just an average math student, I am fine with 8th and no, I don't think those are low expectations. There are lots of other things I want my kid to learn and if she never takes calculus at all, I won't worry that she will somehow be handicapped for life by it.

People in this area are INSANE about this stuff, as though if you aren't taking algebra by 7th grade you might as well just lay down and die. People need to chill out, your obsessive intensity about academic achievement is worse for you kid than these alleged "low expectations."

You are incorrect. There are lots of kids who are interested in taking AP courses, kids who are bored and not challenged, kids who love a subject. The AP courses are there for the kids, not the parents. Taking only courses that you need for some future job is not the purpose of education.

Also I don’t really care what expectations parents have but for a school district to not widely offer a track past calculus when we know students are capable of this is a school district that has low expectations of its students. The end.

What is this "track past Calculus" you are talking about? Are there actually high schools offering differential equations or linear algebra in high school? And are there kids who have no intention of pursuing degrees in math, engineering, or hard sciences who take them? It's okay to just take that stuff in college, where you can be taught by someone with a PhD. It would be incredibly hard to find high school math teachers capable of teaching these subjects, and even if you did, the odds are good you'd be expected to retake them in college because it's just very unlikely that a high school class, even at a very good school, could be rigorous enough to master these concepts.

Sorry, but Calc I and maybe Calc II are more than enough for most high school students. This is not low expectations, this is realistic. High school is not intended to be college. These are children.

Also, hate to be the one to break this to you, but a kid taking Calculus their junior or senior year who feels insufficiently challenged? Doesn't need a harder math class. They need a different approach to life. You want a challenge? Get an A+ in Calc and a perfect score on your AP exam. Too easy? Okay great, develop the life skills needed to find out which local universities offer higher level math and investigate taking one, or even just auditing it -- smart, ambitious kid who is bored by his current AP classes should find a complex problem like that engaging to solve. Use your social skills to reach out to the professor to ask permission to take their course. Talk to you parents about tuition or see if you can audit it for a reduced price or for free. Talk to your school's administration about getting credit.

The answer to "my child isn't challenged in his high school calculus class" is not "the school district should be offering college level math in junior year." It's to figure out what other skills your kid needs to work on and to work on them. Taking a difficult course load in high school is impressive but not sufficient. It's not up to the school district to ensure that you can specialize in every possible academic area in high school. Do something you are bad at. Join the wrestling team, audition for the school musical, challenge yourself to make a new group of friends.

Many DCPS high schools are inadequate but the idea that the main problem is that middle school students aren't taking algebra in 7th grade is insane. That's not the problem.

You are ridiculous. So a student who has a math aptitude and yes can handle calculus and move past it should not be offered the opportunities and education that literally HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of other kids get just in this area alone. WTF. They should develop life skills? Give me a break. It’s already been said on this board that it’s logistically impossible for DC kids to take college courses.

If a student takes Algebra 1 in 7th, it looks like this in FCPS. MCPS also offer courses past calculus.

7th: algebra 1
8th: geometry
9th: algebra 2
10th: precalc/trig
11th:calc AB or BC
12th: multivariable calc or matrix algebra

Posters like above who think this way is exactly why DCPS is bleeding top students, especially math students. Screws all the advance math students. Let’s have them learn “life skills” to excuse this big deficiencies. And you wonder why the scores are so terrible. Because those with options have already left the system.

Lastly, no one said at all this was the main problem in DCPS. But this example is just one of many of the low expectation and culture represented by low offerings in DCPS.

[Anonymous]

The math kids have left DCPS. No book reading lists in MS or HS and the writing sucks so no strong humanities students. What’s left folks?

No wonder grade level is the best there is. But wait, there must be a few strong students. Ok then have them learn like skills. LOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The math kids have left DCPS. No book reading lists in MS or HS and the writing sucks so no strong humanities students. What’s left folks?

No wonder grade level is the best there is. But wait, there must be a few strong students. Ok then have them learn like skills. LOL!

Typo life not like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem OP is this board skews wealthy and white so they only talk about Ward 3 or Capitol Hill area, which is not zoned for the Ward 3 high school. They have a deep fear of minorities and judge everything solely on test scores. You don’t get a very good picture of DC schools here.

+1

Not even worth discussing other schools bc they’ll just get shouted down. This is the last place I’d go for advice

Are there non-application DCPS high schools other than JR that have more than 20% of kids on grade level (based on test scores)? Honest question.

I don't know. But test scores don't equal good schools.

And the circle of nonsense begins anew

What exactly does this mean? Test scores reflect how academically prepared students are, and most parents with options don’t want their kids to be or to go to school with mostly kids who are multiple grade levels behind.

Please explain your thinking here.

Not my post, but I'll explain as I feel similarly. Likely in the minority here as I am a Black mom to a Black boy, middle class. My son started out a diverse charter school. Pretty good scores, highly rated on charter rating scales at the time. Pulled him from this school because class sizes got larger and he wasn't getting the support/instruction he needed. (Very kind, respectful kid at school though). Used to lottery to get him into an elementary school on CH. This school was not diverse, but students and teachers were welcoming. However, teachers pushed and pushed for him to be tested for SPED. Which he ended up not qualifying for in spite of their insistence. This school had AMAZING test scores though. Guess my kid messed this up.

Now, my son is an 8th grader at a school that is not highly sought after here. Overall school scores were not amazing last year, but his were good and the highest he's ever had. He's in the accelerated math cohort and thriving and now headed to high school. What I believe what he truly needed was teachers who are ACTUALLY TEACHING. He had some of those at the second ES, but in general most kids there were already above grade level I guess. He still has work to do, I still support him at home. However, if I picked school based on test scores alone, he might still not be getting the support he needs when he is at school every day.

There are kids who live in abject poverty, with violence, are malnourished and live on the streets who grow up to be world renowned mathematicians, doctors and the like. By your way of thinking those factors are immaterial to success because a kid escaped. You would be wrong.

It is great that your kid has a positive outcome. But there is no world in which the quality of education for a classroom filled with kids below grade level is better or the same as a classroom filled with kids who are at or above grade level.

People like you who say "test scores don't matter" really mean to say "test scores don't mean everything or guarantee success". The latter is right, but those two things are not the same. Kids at grade level or not is not about the color of your black son. The fact that you interject that little fact is at once nonsense and offensive. DC's tests are not culturally biased. If 5% of a school is at grade level it is because 5% know the minimum to achieve that score, and the scoring sheets don't know what color you are.

If your argument is that caring about high test scores and objective measures of academic success is racist then you aren't hurting people who are succeeding. You are perpetuating a culture of lowered expectations and hurting your kids and others like them.

Are you Asian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem OP is this board skews wealthy and white so they only talk about Ward 3 or Capitol Hill area, which is not zoned for the Ward 3 high school. They have a deep fear of minorities and judge everything solely on test scores. You don’t get a very good picture of DC schools here.

+1

Not even worth discussing other schools bc they’ll just get shouted down. This is the last place I’d go for advice

Are there non-application DCPS high schools other than JR that have more than 20% of kids on grade level (based on test scores)? Honest question.

I don't know. But test scores don't equal good schools.

And the circle of nonsense begins anew

What exactly does this mean? Test scores reflect how academically prepared students are, and most parents with options don’t want their kids to be or to go to school with mostly kids who are multiple grade levels behind.

Please explain your thinking here.

Not my post, but I'll explain as I feel similarly. Likely in the minority here as I am a Black mom to a Black boy, middle class. My son started out a diverse charter school. Pretty good scores, highly rated on charter rating scales at the time. Pulled him from this school because class sizes got larger and he wasn't getting the support/instruction he needed. (Very kind, respectful kid at school though). Used to lottery to get him into an elementary school on CH. This school was not diverse, but students and teachers were welcoming. However, teachers pushed and pushed for him to be tested for SPED. Which he ended up not qualifying for in spite of their insistence. This school had AMAZING test scores though. Guess my kid messed this up.

Now, my son is an 8th grader at a school that is not highly sought after here. Overall school scores were not amazing last year, but his were good and the highest he's ever had. He's in the accelerated math cohort and thriving and now headed to high school. What I believe what he truly needed was teachers who are ACTUALLY TEACHING. He had some of those at the second ES, but in general most kids there were already above grade level I guess. He still has work to do, I still support him at home. However, if I picked school based on test scores alone, he might still not be getting the support he needs when he is at school every day.

There are kids who live in abject poverty, with violence, are malnourished and live on the streets who grow up to be world renowned mathematicians, doctors and the like. By your way of thinking those factors are immaterial to success because a kid escaped. You would be wrong.

It is great that your kid has a positive outcome. But there is no world in which the quality of education for a classroom filled with kids below grade level is better or the same as a classroom filled with kids who are at or above grade level.

People like you who say "test scores don't matter" really mean to say "test scores don't mean everything or guarantee success". The latter is right, but those two things are not the same. Kids at grade level or not is not about the color of your black son. The fact that you interject that little fact is at once nonsense and offensive. DC's tests are not culturally biased. If 5% of a school is at grade level it is because 5% know the minimum to achieve that score, and the scoring sheets don't know what color you are.

If your argument is that caring about high test scores and objective measures of academic success is racist then you aren't hurting people who are succeeding. You are perpetuating a culture of lowered expectations and hurting your kids and others like them.

Are you Asian?

Nope. Sorry to disappoint your stereotype.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem OP is this board skews wealthy and white so they only talk about Ward 3 or Capitol Hill area, which is not zoned for the Ward 3 high school. They have a deep fear of minorities and judge everything solely on test scores. You don’t get a very good picture of DC schools here.

+1

Not even worth discussing other schools bc they’ll just get shouted down. This is the last place I’d go for advice

Are there non-application DCPS high schools other than JR that have more than 20% of kids on grade level (based on test scores)? Honest question.

I don't know. But test scores don't equal good schools.

And the circle of nonsense begins anew

What exactly does this mean? Test scores reflect how academically prepared students are, and most parents with options don’t want their kids to be or to go to school with mostly kids who are multiple grade levels behind.

Please explain your thinking here.

Not my post, but I'll explain as I feel similarly. Likely in the minority here as I am a Black mom to a Black boy, middle class. My son started out a diverse charter school. Pretty good scores, highly rated on charter rating scales at the time. Pulled him from this school because class sizes got larger and he wasn't getting the support/instruction he needed. (Very kind, respectful kid at school though). Used to lottery to get him into an elementary school on CH. This school was not diverse, but students and teachers were welcoming. However, teachers pushed and pushed for him to be tested for SPED. Which he ended up not qualifying for in spite of their insistence. This school had AMAZING test scores though. Guess my kid messed this up.

Now, my son is an 8th grader at a school that is not highly sought after here. Overall school scores were not amazing last year, but his were good and the highest he's ever had. He's in the accelerated math cohort and thriving and now headed to high school. What I believe what he truly needed was teachers who are ACTUALLY TEACHING. He had some of those at the second ES, but in general most kids there were already above grade level I guess. He still has work to do, I still support him at home. However, if I picked school based on test scores alone, he might still not be getting the support he needs when he is at school every day.

There are kids who live in abject poverty, with violence, are malnourished and live on the streets who grow up to be world renowned mathematicians, doctors and the like. By your way of thinking those factors are immaterial to success because a kid escaped. You would be wrong.

It is great that your kid has a positive outcome. But there is no world in which the quality of education for a classroom filled with kids below grade level is better or the same as a classroom filled with kids who are at or above grade level.

People like you who say "test scores don't matter" really mean to say "test scores don't mean everything or guarantee success". The latter is right, but those two things are not the same. Kids at grade level or not is not about the color of your black son. The fact that you interject that little fact is at once nonsense and offensive. DC's tests are not culturally biased. If 5% of a school is at grade level it is because 5% know the minimum to achieve that score, and the scoring sheets don't know what color you are.

If your argument is that caring about high test scores and objective measures of academic success is racist then you aren't hurting people who are succeeding. You are perpetuating a culture of lowered expectations and hurting your kids and others like them.

Are you Asian?

Nope. Sorry to disappoint your stereotype.

I like your strong opinions. Can I ask where you would recommend sending kids to school in DC or MD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem OP is this board skews wealthy and white so they only talk about Ward 3 or Capitol Hill area, which is not zoned for the Ward 3 high school. They have a deep fear of minorities and judge everything solely on test scores. You don’t get a very good picture of DC schools here.

+1

Not even worth discussing other schools bc they’ll just get shouted down. This is the last place I’d go for advice

Are there non-application DCPS high schools other than JR that have more than 20% of kids on grade level (based on test scores)? Honest question.

I don't know. But test scores don't equal good schools.

And the circle of nonsense begins anew

What exactly does this mean? Test scores reflect how academically prepared students are, and most parents with options don’t want their kids to be or to go to school with mostly kids who are multiple grade levels behind.

Please explain your thinking here.

Not my post, but I'll explain as I feel similarly. Likely in the minority here as I am a Black mom to a Black boy, middle class. My son started out a diverse charter school. Pretty good scores, highly rated on charter rating scales at the time. Pulled him from this school because class sizes got larger and he wasn't getting the support/instruction he needed. (Very kind, respectful kid at school though). Used to lottery to get him into an elementary school on CH. This school was not diverse, but students and teachers were welcoming. However, teachers pushed and pushed for him to be tested for SPED. Which he ended up not qualifying for in spite of their insistence. This school had AMAZING test scores though. Guess my kid messed this up.

Now, my son is an 8th grader at a school that is not highly sought after here. Overall school scores were not amazing last year, but his were good and the highest he's ever had. He's in the accelerated math cohort and thriving and now headed to high school. What I believe what he truly needed was teachers who are ACTUALLY TEACHING. He had some of those at the second ES, but in general most kids there were already above grade level I guess. He still has work to do, I still support him at home. However, if I picked school based on test scores alone, he might still not be getting the support he needs when he is at school every day.

There are kids who live in abject poverty, with violence, are malnourished and live on the streets who grow up to be world renowned mathematicians, doctors and the like. By your way of thinking those factors are immaterial to success because a kid escaped. You would be wrong.

It is great that your kid has a positive outcome. But there is no world in which the quality of education for a classroom filled with kids below grade level is better or the same as a classroom filled with kids who are at or above grade level.

People like you who say "test scores don't matter" really mean to say "test scores don't mean everything or guarantee success". The latter is right, but those two things are not the same. Kids at grade level or not is not about the color of your black son. The fact that you interject that little fact is at once nonsense and offensive. DC's tests are not culturally biased. If 5% of a school is at grade level it is because 5% know the minimum to achieve that score, and the scoring sheets don't know what color you are.

If your argument is that caring about high test scores and objective measures of academic success is racist then you aren't hurting people who are succeeding. You are perpetuating a culture of lowered expectations and hurting your kids and others like them.

Are you Asian?

WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem OP is this board skews wealthy and white so they only talk about Ward 3 or Capitol Hill area, which is not zoned for the Ward 3 high school. They have a deep fear of minorities and judge everything solely on test scores. You don’t get a very good picture of DC schools here.

+1

Not even worth discussing other schools bc they’ll just get shouted down. This is the last place I’d go for advice

Are there non-application DCPS high schools other than JR that have more than 20% of kids on grade level (based on test scores)? Honest question.

I don't know. But test scores don't equal good schools.

And the circle of nonsense begins anew

What exactly does this mean? Test scores reflect how academically prepared students are, and most parents with options don’t want their kids to be or to go to school with mostly kids who are multiple grade levels behind.

Please explain your thinking here.

Not my post, but I'll explain as I feel similarly. Likely in the minority here as I am a Black mom to a Black boy, middle class. My son started out a diverse charter school. Pretty good scores, highly rated on charter rating scales at the time. Pulled him from this school because class sizes got larger and he wasn't getting the support/instruction he needed. (Very kind, respectful kid at school though). Used to lottery to get him into an elementary school on CH. This school was not diverse, but students and teachers were welcoming. However, teachers pushed and pushed for him to be tested for SPED. Which he ended up not qualifying for in spite of their insistence. This school had AMAZING test scores though. Guess my kid messed this up.

Now, my son is an 8th grader at a school that is not highly sought after here. Overall school scores were not amazing last year, but his were good and the highest he's ever had. He's in the accelerated math cohort and thriving and now headed to high school. What I believe what he truly needed was teachers who are ACTUALLY TEACHING. He had some of those at the second ES, but in general most kids there were already above grade level I guess. He still has work to do, I still support him at home. However, if I picked school based on test scores alone, he might still not be getting the support he needs when he is at school every day.

There are kids who live in abject poverty, with violence, are malnourished and live on the streets who grow up to be world renowned mathematicians, doctors and the like. By your way of thinking those factors are immaterial to success because a kid escaped. You would be wrong.

It is great that your kid has a positive outcome. But there is no world in which the quality of education for a classroom filled with kids below grade level is better or the same as a classroom filled with kids who are at or above grade level.

People like you who say "test scores don't matter" really mean to say "test scores don't mean everything or guarantee success". The latter is right, but those two things are not the same. Kids at grade level or not is not about the color of your black son. The fact that you interject that little fact is at once nonsense and offensive. DC's tests are not culturally biased. If 5% of a school is at grade level it is because 5% know the minimum to achieve that score, and the scoring sheets don't know what color you are.

If your argument is that caring about high test scores and objective measures of academic success is racist then you aren't hurting people who are succeeding. You are perpetuating a culture of lowered expectations and hurting your kids and others like them.

Are you Asian?

Nope. Sorry to disappoint your stereotype.

I like your strong opinions. Can I ask where you would recommend sending kids to school in DC or MD?

I know nothing about schools in MD. I don't live IB for JKLM (or Deal, Hyde or JR). For those reasons I don't consider myself qualified to speak about those schools (although JR is much larger than I think would be a good fit for my kid). We didn't love our IB ES but got lucky in the lottery for PK3. It was great in ECE and failed us in upper elementary. Latin and BASIS were the only two viable MS options. SH would have swallowed up my kid. TR, ITDS and that ilk have middling rigor that does not meet our needs. We have experience there; those schools benefit from UMC families whose performance on tests is mostly about their advantages by birth. I can assure you they are light years behind what our kid was exposed to when we escaped. Fortunately we got very lucking in the lottery again. I think we would have considered a move had we not gotten lucky. There are no non-charter non-application HS in DC we would for even a second consider. For now we think our charter will work through 12th, but who knows. We have a couple of years before it is decision time. If we need to make a change in 9h and application HS are not an option, we might move or pay for private. We are fortunate to have the means to pony up for private tuition if necessary, although we'd rather not. I don't think we'd move outside of DC just for HS.

Our experience matches that of a lot of Capitol Hill families. We love DC and want to stay. But our liberal views didn't extend to subjecting our kid to underperforming schools if the classes are filled mostly with kids below grade level to prove some sort of liberal street cred. It makes me upset to watch DC institutionalize underperformance as a sign of equity or to just accept that kids from less privileged backgrounds can't excel if excellence is demanded. I get angry that we allow kids to just get advanced up and through HS graduation because some well meaning person decided that holding kids back made them feel bad. DCUM is filled with people who like to present a false choice between having 17 year old's in 6th grade or allowing kids with no education to graduate. As if it is binary. DCUM is filled with people who want to justify or explain why a school with only a small % at or above grade level is OK or won't impact classroom management or rigor. That's nonsense.

My advice is get lucky in the lottery. It makes my stomach turn to type those words.

[Anonymous]

What lottery schools would you focus on for early elementary? Youngest would be prek 3 and oldest 3rd grade? Assume location is not an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What lottery schools would you focus on for early elementary? Youngest would be prek 3 and oldest 3rd grade? Assume location is not an issue.

How long do you plan to remain in the DC system (by grade)?

[Anonymous]

Here is the secret. Many umc people with kids in public schools lived here before they had kids. They are in smaller places. If they get lucky in the lotto they stay and upgrade houses or move to near the charter (often in ward 5). If they don't they move to upper nw or burbs. If you're moving here with school age kids you should think differently than someone who is already here. Many families move for middle school or do moves like trying to get their 5th grader an oob spot at someplace with decent feed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the secret. Many umc people with kids in public schools lived here before they had kids. They are in smaller places. If they get lucky in the lotto they stay and upgrade houses or move to near the charter (often in ward 5). If they don't they move to upper nw or burbs. If you're moving here with school age kids you should think differently than someone who is already here. Many families move for middle school or do moves like trying to get their 5th grader an oob spot at someplace with decent feed.

This is correct. I bought in Ward 5 almost 15 years ago when they were pretty much begging people to buy EOTP. The only things that have kept me in place were 1. lottery luck; and 2. having such a low mortgage that I could afford private when we hit fourth grade. The math is very different if you're thinking of moving into DC now.

[Anonymous]

As someone still living in DC with kids in public high school, I now realize it would have been better to move years ago. Everything is more difficult in DC and the education short falls show up in MS and HS regardless if you are at the best public or charter.