Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

I'm still trying to grasp the sequence of business decisions. When Tom betrayed Shiv at the end of season 3, it was to ensure the Waystar-Gojo deal moved forward, correct? Cut out, the siblings made the move to acquire the Pierce media empire, which seemed to be moving forward? Logan thought that was stupid, even though he had been interested in acquiring Pierce prior? Then he wanted to block Gojo from acquiring ATN? Then the eventual sibling split on the Gojo deal. Is that right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colin looking out for Kendall is like a last gift from Logan. Colin is doing it out of his affection for Logan.

Why can’t the Pierce deal still go through? Aren’t the kids under contract with Pierce?

Good question. What happened to the Pierce deal?

[Anonymous]

"But I'm the eldest son!"

haha

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"But I'm the eldest son!"

haha

No. "But I am the eldest boy!"

[Anonymous]

Was Kendall hurting Roman's injuries while "hugging" him? Roman looked like he was going to puke in the board meeting. The dysfunction and toxicity, wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"But I'm the eldest son!"

haha

No. "But I am the eldest boy!"

And one of them had to remind him that no, he wasn't lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Shiv hadn't voted for Tom, the show wouldn't have really ended. We know the kids would just be stabbing each other in the back at Waystar for the rest of their lives. With Mattson taking over the kids are forced into new lives, whatever those new lives might look like, and we'll never know. But from a writing standpoint the Shiv-Tom-Mattson ending brings (a little) more closure.

Agreed.

+2 She made a rational, sensible decision that offered relative closure. She has a child on the way, can take her fortune and get out. I like that the writers didn't include any fast forwards, just a suggestion that no matter what they'll still probably be miserable. That seems right.

Nope, she made a completely emotional decision.

[Anonymous]

It wasn’t the case that Shiv got nothing if the sibling deal went through. Kendall repeatedly offered her ATN, and Roman social media.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Shiv hadn't voted for Tom, the show wouldn't have really ended. We know the kids would just be stabbing each other in the back at Waystar for the rest of their lives. With Mattson taking over the kids are forced into new lives, whatever those new lives might look like, and we'll never know. But from a writing standpoint the Shiv-Tom-Mattson ending brings (a little) more closure.

Agreed.

+2 She made a rational, sensible decision that offered relative closure. She has a child on the way, can take her fortune and get out. I like that the writers didn't include any fast forwards, just a suggestion that no matter what they'll still probably be miserable. That seems right.

Nope, she made a completely emotional decision.

Well it was the smartest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Greg is just Tom Jr. always angling for the best deal for him.

Yes, but stupider.

Agreed. Tom positioned himself to get what he wanted by working hard. Greg thinks as long as he’s in the room, he’ll get some table scraps.

Alexander Skarsgard said in an interview that Matsson noticed at the funeral that Tom wasn’t there because he was working. Everyone else is there gladhanding and playing the game, Tom was at work. That’s appealing — Tom will do what he’s told and work hard at it. No Roy sibling would do the same.

Wow this so interesting! Great observation.

Idk I felt really bad for Kendall. I was deeply struck by how nasty what Roman said about his kids in the last scene was. (One was adopted and Kendall is not the bio dad of the other? I don't remember if we knew the situation.) Kendall clearly loves his kids and considers them 100% his. I admire that. Also HBO had an instagram post last week of Kendall being "big bro" 2 times... once recently when he told Tom to back off of Shiv and another time when he cursed and screamed at Logan for hitting Roman. He's like a psycho but also somehow earnest and loving.

I don't really get Shiv's point or how Roman's point about them all being BS matters. Like why not just let Kendall do it if he wants to do it, and they can ride off into the sunset? It's so necessary to sabotage him? I think it's really because Shiv "can't stomach" him... that's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Shiv hadn't voted for Tom, the show wouldn't have really ended. We know the kids would just be stabbing each other in the back at Waystar for the rest of their lives. With Mattson taking over the kids are forced into new lives, whatever those new lives might look like, and we'll never know. But from a writing standpoint the Shiv-Tom-Mattson ending brings (a little) more closure.

Agreed.

+2 She made a rational, sensible decision that offered relative closure. She has a child on the way, can take her fortune and get out. I like that the writers didn't include any fast forwards, just a suggestion that no matter what they'll still probably be miserable. That seems right.

Nope, she made a completely emotional decision.

Well it was the smartest.

In your opinion, it left her an empty shell of a person married to a puppet for a man she hated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Shiv hadn't voted for Tom, the show wouldn't have really ended. We know the kids would just be stabbing each other in the back at Waystar for the rest of their lives. With Mattson taking over the kids are forced into new lives, whatever those new lives might look like, and we'll never know. But from a writing standpoint the Shiv-Tom-Mattson ending brings (a little) more closure.

Agreed.

+2 She made a rational, sensible decision that offered relative closure. She has a child on the way, can take her fortune and get out. I like that the writers didn't include any fast forwards, just a suggestion that no matter what they'll still probably be miserable. That seems right.

Nope, she made a completely emotional decision.

Well it was the smartest.

In your opinion, it left her an empty shell of a person married to a puppet for a man she hated.

At least she got an overvalued payout for her shares. Kendall was bound to tank the company. We’ve seen him try to pay grownup before in season 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if in some twisted way, Shiv thinks that voting for the deal so that Tom can become CEO might even the playing field in their marriage in a way that might make it almost functional. When their relationship started, Shiv had all the power because she had all the money, and Tom has always had to put up with abuse and disloyalty from her in order to stay in the family and maintain access to the lifestyle he wants.

But even though he's just a figurehead CEO, it's the most real power he's had in his life. He's going to get a big salary, stock options, and he'll have a ton of social power because he's now the US "face" of Waystar/GoJo. He now has real leverage in their relationship, which he's never had before. Shiv still has her billions (more than before thanks to the sale) and all the trappings of being a 1%er -- she knows all the right people and can get access to all the right places. In theory, at least, this move could allow them to operate as something akin to equals. They already have a weird power dynamic where they are both somewhat abusive of the other, maybe maintaining the tension of them both having leverage will help make that work.

Not saying Shiv's a romantic here -- I think she ultimately made a practical choice both for the company and herself. But the shot of her and Tom in the car makes me wonder if she's choosing that dynamic on purpose. Unlike her mom, she comes to the table with a lot of power, so it's not like she's signing up to be the little woman here. She can walk away any time and she doesn't need to ask Tom for anything. She's better off in a divorce now than before the GoJo deal because now she won't have to pay Tom support of any kind, he'll be too rich to justify it.

Interesting perspective. It did seem she was more interested in trying to salvage the relationship once she became pregnant.

Agree. In one scene she's asking Tom if he thinks there's anything left and he's the one saying he doesn't think so. But at the very end he reaches out his hand to her.

For her, the pregnancy could be one of several motives, among other motives like Kendall making a terrible CEO.

I wonder if Shiv and Tom take ACN in a more progressive direction. We'll never know....

I agree Shiv's decision was complicated, and did not come down to one simplistic reason.

She could either be married to the father of her baby with additional billions of dollars and freedom to do as she pleases. Or fighting with her brothers for power when she knows they all aren’t any good at running a business. Seems like an easy choice for Shiv.

The siblings have backstabbed each other many times. They will come back from this at some point.

I don't think Kendall will ever get over it. He's always ready to backstab but never takes any accountability, ever. As one PP said, he saw this as his birthright and sincerely believed he was entitled to it. Shiv needs him for exactly nothing, however. She and Roman will make peace, because he actually gets it. Kendall will continue on as the same self-centered, self-pitying person he's always been, which is why he will inevitably be alone.

,


Yeah, I don't think he'd ever get over it. Not this time. The hired bodyguard is the only one looking over him, no one else even thought to make sure he was okay.

They may still have a relationship even if they don’t trust each other and he never gets over it. Maybe some caustic barbs lobbed at each other. I could see that in a couple years, after Tom is a CEO somewhere else. They are a messed up family and don’t know what healthy relationships look like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Shiv hadn't voted for Tom, the show wouldn't have really ended. We know the kids would just be stabbing each other in the back at Waystar for the rest of their lives. With Mattson taking over the kids are forced into new lives, whatever those new lives might look like, and we'll never know. But from a writing standpoint the Shiv-Tom-Mattson ending brings (a little) more closure.

Agreed.

+2 She made a rational, sensible decision that offered relative closure. She has a child on the way, can take her fortune and get out. I like that the writers didn't include any fast forwards, just a suggestion that no matter what they'll still probably be miserable. That seems right.

Nope, she made a completely emotional decision.

Well it was the smartest.

In your opinion, it left her an empty shell of a person married to a puppet for a man she hated.

At least she got an overvalued payout for her shares. Kendall was bound to tank the company. We’ve seen him try to pay grownup before in season 3.

It was half shares/ half cash so she has to hope Mattson does better then he did with India.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if Shiv would have still voted yes if someone other than Tom would be the CEO (whether a known quantity like Frank or some random person from Mattson’s camp). I’m conflicted. Her decision did seem to be more motivated by Kendall’s incompetency than loyalty to Tom or even wanting her child to have some stake in the company.