ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. This is what I get for trying to get legitimate facts on this thread. Play up? Good enough? Should be able to? You mean continue to play with the team she has been on for years (good enough?)? Play with her current grade (play up?), which this rule was supposed to facilitate? I guess I should have been more specific. What is the RULE? Does this rule specify that kids play with their CURRENT grade UNLESS they are in a grade LOWER than they are supposed to be, i.e, held back? Otherwise, what does the term “force up” mean that the USYS announcements reference? What does USYS say about this situation? Clearly they contemplated what happens to the kids that are past this arbitrary cutoff but not past their state’s cutoff for grade. If they didn’t consider what to do with these kids then they are incompetent. Like I said, this is not an insignificant amount of kids. Why can’t they just address what happens to the kids that are in the same class as the June kids but after their cutoff. What’s the rule? Is there a rule?

It will be club specific for you. As a Sept birthday, there is nothing in the rules that says she can’t continue to play on her current team. I doubt your club will move those girls so it likely won’t impact you at all.

The new rule established the age range per grouping. For instance, Aug 1, 2012 July 31 2013 will be considered U14 starting during the 26/27 season. The rule says nothing about grades, and that’s because there are so many cutoffs between states, etc. So don’t look at the grade, look at the birthday. Your Sept kid is on the right side of the cutoff for soccer because she has the option to play with her grade. She will technically be U15 come 26/27, and she can play (and same with the other girls) with the U16 team that she is currently on.

Same with all the Aug kids in a Sept 1 school start date. Those kids can play with their correct grade as opposed to being “forced” to play with the grade below (which would have happened with the Sept 1 cutoff). They would be forced to play with the grade below in that instance because you are not allowed to play down an age group (i.e a U14 cannot play on a U13 team).

I think the concern, now, and rightly so is there'll be a bunch of kids whose teams now will be broken up and club directors will just throw up there hands and say, "there's nothing I can do. Even though it's the same grade, your kid would be 13 or 14 younger than the oldest and we have these older kids who need to be on this team. Sure, it's the grade below, but now you're the oldest. Don't you want that advantage?" So, the kid will either end up quitting OR maybe switching clubs where they can maybe form a team with their friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. This is what I get for trying to get legitimate facts on this thread. Play up? Good enough? Should be able to? You mean continue to play with the team she has been on for years (good enough?)? Play with her current grade (play up?), which this rule was supposed to facilitate? I guess I should have been more specific. What is the RULE? Does this rule specify that kids play with their CURRENT grade UNLESS they are in a grade LOWER than they are supposed to be, i.e, held back? Otherwise, what does the term “force up” mean that the USYS announcements reference? What does USYS say about this situation? Clearly they contemplated what happens to the kids that are past this arbitrary cutoff but not past their state’s cutoff for grade. If they didn’t consider what to do with these kids then they are incompetent. Like I said, this is not an insignificant amount of kids. Why can’t they just address what happens to the kids that are in the same class as the June kids but after their cutoff. What’s the rule? Is there a rule?

It will be club specific for you. As a Sept birthday, there is nothing in the rules that says she can’t continue to play on her current team. I doubt your club will move those girls so it likely won’t impact you at all.

The new rule established the age range per grouping. For instance, Aug 1, 2012 July 31 2013 will be considered U14 starting during the 26/27 season. The rule says nothing about grades, and that’s because there are so many cutoffs between states, etc. So don’t look at the grade, look at the birthday. Your Sept kid is on the right side of the cutoff for soccer because she has the option to play with her grade. She will technically be U15 come 26/27, and she can play (and same with the other girls) with the U16 team that she is currently on.

Same with all the Aug kids in a Sept 1 school start date. Those kids can play with their correct grade as opposed to being “forced” to play with the grade below (which would have happened with the Sept 1 cutoff). They would be forced to play with the grade below in that instance because you are not allowed to play down an age group (i.e a U14 cannot play on a U13 team).

I think the concern, now, and rightly so is there'll be a bunch of kids whose teams now will be broken up and club directors will just throw up there hands and say, "there's nothing I can do. Even though it's the same grade, your kid would be 13 or 14 younger than the oldest and we have these older kids who need to be on this team. Sure, it's the grade below, but now you're the oldest. Don't you want that advantage?" So, the kid will either end up quitting OR maybe switching clubs where they can maybe form a team with their friends.

Yeah, that’s definitely a possibility and concern. No matter that cutoff, it was a foregone conclusion that teams were going to be split up once they decided to go SY. Short term pain for long term gain, I suppose. We will just have to adjust and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. This is what I get for trying to get legitimate facts on this thread. Play up? Good enough? Should be able to? You mean continue to play with the team she has been on for years (good enough?)? Play with her current grade (play up?), which this rule was supposed to facilitate? I guess I should have been more specific. What is the RULE? Does this rule specify that kids play with their CURRENT grade UNLESS they are in a grade LOWER than they are supposed to be, i.e, held back? Otherwise, what does the term “force up” mean that the USYS announcements reference? What does USYS say about this situation? Clearly they contemplated what happens to the kids that are past this arbitrary cutoff but not past their state’s cutoff for grade. If they didn’t consider what to do with these kids then they are incompetent. Like I said, this is not an insignificant amount of kids. Why can’t they just address what happens to the kids that are in the same class as the June kids but after their cutoff. What’s the rule? Is there a rule?

It will be club specific for you. As a Sept birthday, there is nothing in the rules that says she can’t continue to play on her current team. I doubt your club will move those girls so it likely won’t impact you at all.

The new rule established the age range per grouping. For instance, Aug 1, 2012 July 31 2013 will be considered U14 starting during the 26/27 season. The rule says nothing about grades, and that’s because there are so many cutoffs between states, etc. So don’t look at the grade, look at the birthday. Your Sept kid is on the right side of the cutoff for soccer because she has the option to play with her grade. She will technically be U15 come 26/27, and she can play (and same with the other girls) with the U16 team that she is currently on.

Same with all the Aug kids in a Sept 1 school start date. Those kids can play with their correct grade as opposed to being “forced” to play with the grade below (which would have happened with the Sept 1 cutoff). They would be forced to play with the grade below in that instance because you are not allowed to play down an age group (i.e a U14 cannot play on a U13 team).

I think the concern, now, and rightly so is there'll be a bunch of kids whose teams now will be broken up and club directors will just throw up there hands and say, "there's nothing I can do. Even though it's the same grade, your kid would be 13 or 14 younger than the oldest and we have these older kids who need to be on this team. Sure, it's the grade below, but now you're the oldest. Don't you want that advantage?" So, the kid will either end up quitting OR maybe switching clubs where they can maybe form a team with their friends.

Yeah, that’s definitely a possibility and concern. No matter that cutoff, it was a foregone conclusion that teams were going to be split up once they decided to go SY. Short term pain for long term gain, I suppose. We will just have to adjust and move on.

Literally the very first podcast a year ago when the ECNL guys stirred this pot thats exactly what they sad. They add that all the pros for going SY were long term and basically all the cons were just in the short term after the change, breaking up teams, admin work etc, so their point of view was it was time to just do it, suffer the short term pain for long term gain. Dragging this whole thing out a year though I do think sort of prolongs the pain. However in our club almost none of ECNL teams are gonna get "broken up" they all have like 2-3 fall birthday kids max and they will all just shuttle down and age group and everything is going to be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. This is what I get for trying to get legitimate facts on this thread. Play up? Good enough? Should be able to? You mean continue to play with the team she has been on for years (good enough?)? Play with her current grade (play up?), which this rule was supposed to facilitate? I guess I should have been more specific. What is the RULE? Does this rule specify that kids play with their CURRENT grade UNLESS they are in a grade LOWER than they are supposed to be, i.e, held back? Otherwise, what does the term “force up” mean that the USYS announcements reference? What does USYS say about this situation? Clearly they contemplated what happens to the kids that are past this arbitrary cutoff but not past their state’s cutoff for grade. If they didn’t consider what to do with these kids then they are incompetent. Like I said, this is not an insignificant amount of kids. Why can’t they just address what happens to the kids that are in the same class as the June kids but after their cutoff. What’s the rule? Is there a rule?

It will be club specific for you. As a Sept birthday, there is nothing in the rules that says she can’t continue to play on her current team. I doubt your club will move those girls so it likely won’t impact you at all.

The new rule established the age range per grouping. For instance, Aug 1, 2012 July 31 2013 will be considered U14 starting during the 26/27 season. The rule says nothing about grades, and that’s because there are so many cutoffs between states, etc. So don’t look at the grade, look at the birthday. Your Sept kid is on the right side of the cutoff for soccer because she has the option to play with her grade. She will technically be U15 come 26/27, and she can play (and same with the other girls) with the U16 team that she is currently on.

Same with all the Aug kids in a Sept 1 school start date. Those kids can play with their correct grade as opposed to being “forced” to play with the grade below (which would have happened with the Sept 1 cutoff). They would be forced to play with the grade below in that instance because you are not allowed to play down an age group (i.e a U14 cannot play on a U13 team).

I think the concern, now, and rightly so is there'll be a bunch of kids whose teams now will be broken up and club directors will just throw up there hands and say, "there's nothing I can do. Even though it's the same grade, your kid would be 13 or 14 younger than the oldest and we have these older kids who need to be on this team. Sure, it's the grade below, but now you're the oldest. Don't you want that advantage?" So, the kid will either end up quitting OR maybe switching clubs where they can maybe form a team with their friends.

Yeah, that’s definitely a possibility and concern. No matter that cutoff, it was a foregone conclusion that teams were going to be split up once they decided to go SY. Short term pain for long term gain, I suppose. We will just have to adjust and move on.

Literally the very first podcast a year ago when the ECNL guys stirred this pot thats exactly what they sad. They add that all the pros for going SY were long term and basically all the cons were just in the short term after the change, breaking up teams, admin work etc, so their point of view was it was time to just do it, suffer the short term pain for long term gain. Dragging this whole thing out a year though I do think sort of prolongs the pain. However in our club almost none of ECNL teams are gonna get "broken up" they all have like 2-3 fall birthday kids max and they will all just shuttle down and age group and everything is going to be fine.

Dragging things out over a couple of years has been proven to be the right decision by US Soccer. Considering US Club who has been pushing for all this changed their cutoff date from 9/1 to 8/1 earlier this week.

Gives plenty of time to make even more changes.

(Just implement SY+60 and ALL the issues go away because ALL weird edge cases are addressed.)

[Anonymous]

It would be awesome if GA implemented SY+60 with a 9/1 cutoff just to thumb their nose at ECNL. In the end its the same thing as SY with an 8/1 cutoff other than potential July birthdates + school starts. But, you wouldn't have players the wrong age in school playing down which screws up recruiting for themselves and other players the right grade that could be playing on the team.

[Anonymous]

We are in a potentially awkward situation where my daughter is a Q4 and one of the top 3 players on a Top 25 team in the nation. Our club is saying strict adherence to age groups to avoid all the noise.

The team below her is not good (~150 ranked) but there are no other clubs that work for our specific situation, so there are girls that are going to get short end of the stick out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. This is what I get for trying to get legitimate facts on this thread. Play up? Good enough? Should be able to? You mean continue to play with the team she has been on for years (good enough?)? Play with her current grade (play up?), which this rule was supposed to facilitate? I guess I should have been more specific. What is the RULE? Does this rule specify that kids play with their CURRENT grade UNLESS they are in a grade LOWER than they are supposed to be, i.e, held back? Otherwise, what does the term “force up” mean that the USYS announcements reference? What does USYS say about this situation? Clearly they contemplated what happens to the kids that are past this arbitrary cutoff but not past their state’s cutoff for grade. If they didn’t consider what to do with these kids then they are incompetent. Like I said, this is not an insignificant amount of kids. Why can’t they just address what happens to the kids that are in the same class as the June kids but after their cutoff. What’s the rule? Is there a rule?

It will be club specific for you. As a Sept birthday, there is nothing in the rules that says she can’t continue to play on her current team. I doubt your club will move those girls so it likely won’t impact you at all.

The new rule established the age range per grouping. For instance, Aug 1, 2012 July 31 2013 will be considered U14 starting during the 26/27 season. The rule says nothing about grades, and that’s because there are so many cutoffs between states, etc. So don’t look at the grade, look at the birthday. Your Sept kid is on the right side of the cutoff for soccer because she has the option to play with her grade. She will technically be U15 come 26/27, and she can play (and same with the other girls) with the U16 team that she is currently on.

Same with all the Aug kids in a Sept 1 school start date. Those kids can play with their correct grade as opposed to being “forced” to play with the grade below (which would have happened with the Sept 1 cutoff). They would be forced to play with the grade below in that instance because you are not allowed to play down an age group (i.e a U14 cannot play on a U13 team).

Thank you for your reasoned response which actually answered the question I asked. That was a breath of fresh air.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in a potentially awkward situation where my daughter is a Q4 and one of the top 3 players on a Top 25 team in the nation. Our club is saying strict adherence to age groups to avoid all the noise.

The team below her is not good (~150 ranked) but there are no other clubs that work for our specific situation, so there are girls that are going to get short end of the stick out there.

Yes at sucks, but it is your club making it that way, not the rule change. They have the freedom to let her stay on her team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in a potentially awkward situation where my daughter is a Q4 and one of the top 3 players on a Top 25 team in the nation. Our club is saying strict adherence to age groups to avoid all the noise.

The team below her is not good (~150 ranked) but there are no other clubs that work for our specific situation, so there are girls that are going to get short end of the stick out there.

If soccer is that much of an opportunity for her and if it's possible, maybe move to a community with a club that would work for you? Also, if your kid is that good, threaten to leave the club if she doesn't stay on the team. And if you have to leave, maybe find a few fellow players to go with that would help make the new team strong. Be proactive. Do what's best for your kid and family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in a potentially awkward situation where my daughter is a Q4 and one of the top 3 players on a Top 25 team in the nation. Our club is saying strict adherence to age groups to avoid all the noise.

The team below her is not good (~150 ranked) but there are no other clubs that work for our specific situation, so there are girls that are going to get short end of the stick out there.

And your daughter has nothing to worry about (didn't say the age group which obviously impacts my response). The top kids will be seen and if you're talking about U12-U14, then it's a total non issue. Plenty of years to let it all settle out.

[Anonymous]

It's funny, a lot of folks complain about "breaking up teams". Teams are already broken up every year, or at least should be, if a club wants to upgrade their teams with the best players available. Not all kids can currently play with their friends if a club has A, B, C, and D teams and one kid is on the A team, and a friend is on the B team.

But we don't typically hear parents complain about their kid being promoted to the A team or playing up a year and no longer playing with friends if they're that good.

I understand the frustration about teams being broken up, but to me this was always an odd reason against the change to SY because that already occurs.

[Anonymous]

99% of kids who can play down will end up playing down. Lots of reasons. Club politics, Level of play, trapped issues, Not at high enough level.....

Staying put just isnt going to be reality with 5/12 of players looking for a new place to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in a potentially awkward situation where my daughter is a Q4 and one of the top 3 players on a Top 25 team in the nation. Our club is saying strict adherence to age groups to avoid all the noise.

The team below her is not good (~150 ranked) but there are no other clubs that work for our specific situation, so there are girls that are going to get short end of the stick out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's funny, a lot of folks complain about "breaking up teams". Teams are already broken up every year, or at least should be, if a club wants to upgrade their teams with the best players available. Not all kids can currently play with their friends if a club has A, B, C, and D teams and one kid is on the A team, and a friend is on the B team.

But we don't typically hear parents complain about their kid being promoted to the A team or playing up a year and no longer playing with friends if they're that good.

I understand the frustration about teams being broken up, but to me this was always an odd reason against the change to SY because that already occurs.

People expect and understand the annual turnover. I think the complaint is that it's on top of the usual changes. Club soccer already has too much BS and this is just one more reason for people to peace out. Of the biggest dangers to youth soccer in this change ever since it was contemplated and announced would be that it would drive a lot people away from soccer exactly like it did 10 years ago with the switch to BY. That risk remains and it's wrong to try to hand-wave it away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:99% of kids who can play down will end up playing down. Lots of reasons. Club politics, Level of play, trapped issues, Not at high enough level.....

Staying put just isnt going to be reality with 5/12 of players looking for a new place to play.

Clubs that force Aug birthdays to play down with a younger grade are screwing those players when it comes to recruiting.

They're choosing youngers wins over placing players on college teams.

Unfortunately we all know what crazy clubs and parents will choose.