Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great pilot analysis. He seems fairly confident the Helo simply had the wrong airplane in sight. Literally did not see the other plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgllf1L9_4

If true it's really hard to understand how they don't see the airplane right in front of them, both on radar and visually. Like I understand what this guy is saying and I assume he knows more than I do about what it's like in the air, but when you look at the radar and see the video footage, it's hard to make sense of because the plane is *right there.*

What is the reason they might not be looking at radar to see the closer plane? There are two pilots and a crew chief on the helicopter. Surely one of them would be in charge of checking radar especially while flying through that particular corridor knowing there will be planes taking off and landing from National. I don't get it.

It also raises the question of whether the night vision goggles they were wearing for training purposes obscured their vision to the degree that it made it more likely they would not see the closer jet and would think the area closer to them was clear. If that's the case, I'm sorry, but this is 100% on the DoD for permitting that kind of training flight near a very busy urban airport. Like completely unacceptable. I understand why an Army pilot would need training with night vision goggles but there is no reason why that should be done in an area where it could jeopardize civilian lives in that way.

So if this is the explanation, it honestly raises more questions than it answers. IMO.

I see what you are saying. But the Helo pilot acknowledges at least twice (maybe 3 times?) that he sses the aircraft and assumes responsibility for visual separation. So he's either a terrible judge of distance and incorrectly thought he would clear the plane, OR was focuses on creating visual deparation from a completely different plane.

It’s confirmation bias. When your brain thinks you’ve seen “the thing” it stops looking for other things, even if your eyes are on the sky/screen/whathaveyou.

We teach our residents “what do you look for after you see a fracture?” (on X-ray or CT, whatever). The answer is “the second fracture”.

I’ve seen people miss some crazy sh!t bc their eyes and brain are looking at what they think the pathology is, and they’re completely blind to the other issue that’s literally right there.

We take a lot of our error reduction education from the aviation industry, or at least try to. Pilots are better than we are at acknowledging the propensity for human error (probably bc a lot of us doctors are @ssholes).

We cleared our incoming space last night for a mass casualty event in prep for what we hoped were survivors. Awful when no one came.

Did both the trainee pilot and the evaluator pilot miss the plane?

And the radar.

[Anonymous]

Jonathan Koziol, a retired Army chief warrant officer with more than 30 years of flight experience, told reporters that the flight was a nighttime qualification flight with an instructor pilot evaluating an experienced pilot on the flight routes that their unit routinely flies day and night around the Potomac River…

Koziol confirmed that the instructor pilot had more than 1,000 flight hours and that the pilot being evaluated had more than 500 hours. The evaluated pilot was in command of the flight, but if an emergency was to occur the instructor would have taken control of the helicopter.

Koziol said the maximum altitude for this route is 200 feet; the helicopter appeared to be flying at about 350 feet, according to sources.

Part of the unit’s responsibility is to fly VIPs around the D.C. area, and that includes getting them out of the area if "something really bad happens," he said, "so they do need to be able to understand the environment, the air traffic, the routes, to ensure the safe travel of our senior leaders throughout our government

Koziol is chief of staff for Army aviation.

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/live-updates/dc-crash-live-updates-trump-says-confluence-of-bad-decisions-that-were-made-118247845

Hesgeth also stated that the helo flight is continuity related (which T didn’t understand when asked at his presser 🤦‍♀️)


Now I understand why they would have the training flights on that route

[Anonymous]

It has been confirmed that the helicopter crew was wearing night vision goggles.

This is likely to play a role in what they did and did not see. Night vision goggles can greatly reduce your overall vision. I also question whether it is possible to properly read your radar with them on.

One aspect of the investigation should look into why a helicopter training flight was cleared to use night vision goggles in an area with so much air traffic. The seems like an accident waiting to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great pilot analysis. He seems fairly confident the Helo simply had the wrong airplane in sight. Literally did not see the other plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgllf1L9_4

If true it's really hard to understand how they don't see the airplane right in front of them, both on radar and visually. Like I understand what this guy is saying and I assume he knows more than I do about what it's like in the air, but when you look at the radar and see the video footage, it's hard to make sense of because the plane is *right there.*

What is the reason they might not be looking at radar to see the closer plane? There are two pilots and a crew chief on the helicopter. Surely one of them would be in charge of checking radar especially while flying through that particular corridor knowing there will be planes taking off and landing from National. I don't get it.

It also raises the question of whether the night vision goggles they were wearing for training purposes obscured their vision to the degree that it made it more likely they would not see the closer jet and would think the area closer to them was clear. If that's the case, I'm sorry, but this is 100% on the DoD for permitting that kind of training flight near a very busy urban airport. Like completely unacceptable. I understand why an Army pilot would need training with night vision goggles but there is no reason why that should be done in an area where it could jeopardize civilian lives in that way.

So if this is the explanation, it honestly raises more questions than it answers. IMO.

I see what you are saying. But the Helo pilot acknowledges at least twice (maybe 3 times?) that he sses the aircraft and assumes responsibility for visual separation. So he's either a terrible judge of distance and incorrectly thought he would clear the plane, OR was focuses on creating visual deparation from a completely different plane.

It’s confirmation bias. When your brain thinks you’ve seen “the thing” it stops looking for other things, even if your eyes are on the sky/screen/whathaveyou.

We teach our residents “what do you look for after you see a fracture?” (on X-ray or CT, whatever). The answer is “the second fracture”.

I’ve seen people miss some crazy sh!t bc their eyes and brain are looking at what they think the pathology is, and they’re completely blind to the other issue that’s literally right there.

We take a lot of our error reduction education from the aviation industry, or at least try to. Pilots are better than we are at acknowledging the propensity for human error (probably bc a lot of us doctors are @ssholes).

We cleared our incoming space last night for a mass casualty event in prep for what we hoped were survivors. Awful when no one came.

Give me a break. Even bankers know to double check their numbers and have a healthy sense of paranoia to check around.

Piloting a huge black hawk a quarter mile from a busy active airport at night at the wrong altitude is WAY BEYOND confidence biases and confirmation biases.

They’ll disclose the investigation, the background of the pilot in control, and the helo black box recording.

Uh, yes. They will do an RCA on this as occurs in all disasters in both aviation and medicine, with the intention to minimize areas of potential error going forward which are….wait for it, generally systematic and human, no matter how WAY BEYOND you think this event was. This is how wrong limbs get cut off in the OR, this is how the Air Florida flight crashed into the bridge in 1982, this is how 3 mile island happened. Swiss cheese holes, bad timing, and bad luck. And human error. That’s why these events are studied, to reduce the last one.

Not sure what argument you’re trying to make.

Then read the BS confirmation post before it.

Claims the military help pilot merely saw some planes in the distance so confirmation biases kicked in and the pilot never bothered to check their altitude given rules, check the runway 33 which was told them, nor check their radar for jet paths.

That ain’t a real pilot then. Real pilots are checking everything all the time, especially when flying through urban areas and active airports w jets landing.

[Anonymous]

The AA pilot's father identified him. Photos. He was White.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has been confirmed that the helicopter crew was wearing night vision goggles.

This is likely to play a role in what they did and did not see. Night vision goggles can greatly reduce your overall vision. I also question whether it is possible to properly read your radar with them on.

One aspect of the investigation should look into why a helicopter training flight was cleared to use night vision goggles in an area with so much air traffic. The seems like an accident waiting to happen.

Confirmed by whom? All I heard in the release was the goggles were on board but they couldn’t confirm if they were in use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe the orange fruitcake was back live to be seen signing useless papers and spewing more crap. He’ll have to take those back like all the other lies he signed this week. He doesn’t care about the victims. He knows the world is watching and press is his only concern. I guess he’ll be back later today and he can take questions while he eats dinner.

Wait till you find out what the papers were.

I refuse to listen to his orange lips speak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Jonathan Koziol, a retired Army chief warrant officer with more than 30 years of flight experience, told reporters that the flight was a nighttime qualification flight with an instructor pilot evaluating an experienced pilot on the flight routes that their unit routinely flies day and night around the Potomac River…

Koziol confirmed that the instructor pilot had more than 1,000 flight hours and that the pilot being evaluated had more than 500 hours. The evaluated pilot was in command of the flight, but if an emergency was to occur the instructor would have taken control of the helicopter.

Koziol said the maximum altitude for this route is 200 feet; the helicopter appeared to be flying at about 350 feet, according to sources.

Part of the unit’s responsibility is to fly VIPs around the D.C. area, and that includes getting them out of the area if "something really bad happens," he said, "so they do need to be able to understand the environment, the air traffic, the routes, to ensure the safe travel of our senior leaders throughout our government

Koziol is chief of staff for Army aviation.

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/live-updates/dc-crash-live-updates-trump-says-confluence-of-bad-decisions-that-were-made-118247845

Hesgeth also stated that the helo flight is continuity related (which T didn’t understand when asked at his presser 🤦‍♀️)


Now I understand why they would have the training flights on that route

not buying in. I’m sorry the senior leaders just have to deal with the metro like the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The AA pilot's father identified him. Photos. He was White.

So what. He didn’t fly at the wrong altitude by double and kamikazi a passenger jet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has been confirmed that the helicopter crew was wearing night vision goggles.

This is likely to play a role in what they did and did not see. Night vision goggles can greatly reduce your overall vision. I also question whether it is possible to properly read your radar with them on.

One aspect of the investigation should look into why a helicopter training flight was cleared to use night vision goggles in an area with so much air traffic. The seems like an accident waiting to happen.

Confirmed by whom? All I heard in the release was the goggles were on board but they couldn’t confirm if they were in use.

Hegseth mentioned it but it's not confirmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Jonathan Koziol, a retired Army chief warrant officer with more than 30 years of flight experience, told reporters that the flight was a nighttime qualification flight with an instructor pilot evaluating an experienced pilot on the flight routes that their unit routinely flies day and night around the Potomac River…

Koziol confirmed that the instructor pilot had more than 1,000 flight hours and that the pilot being evaluated had more than 500 hours. The evaluated pilot was in command of the flight, but if an emergency was to occur the instructor would have taken control of the helicopter.

Koziol said the maximum altitude for this route is 200 feet; the helicopter appeared to be flying at about 350 feet, according to sources.

Part of the unit’s responsibility is to fly VIPs around the D.C. area, and that includes getting them out of the area if "something really bad happens," he said, "so they do need to be able to understand the environment, the air traffic, the routes, to ensure the safe travel of our senior leaders throughout our government

Koziol is chief of staff for Army aviation.

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/live-updates/dc-crash-live-updates-trump-says-confluence-of-bad-decisions-that-were-made-118247845

Hesgeth also stated that the helo flight is continuity related (which T didn’t understand when asked at his presser 🤦‍♀️)


Now I understand why they would have the training flights on that route

I dunno, the whole “we need to practice to get the *important* people out so we’re going to put civilians at risk” thing doesn’t sit well with me.

Also makes me question why we have everyone centralized in DC in the first place. Makes more sense to spread everyone out, and if we need a central location to meet, have it out in the middle of nowhere so we don’t even need to get people out.

Especially with technology nowadays, in-person is really obsolete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has been confirmed that the helicopter crew was wearing night vision goggles.

This is likely to play a role in what they did and did not see. Night vision goggles can greatly reduce your overall vision. I also question whether it is possible to properly read your radar with them on.

One aspect of the investigation should look into why a helicopter training flight was cleared to use night vision goggles in an area with so much air traffic. The seems like an accident waiting to happen.

This would’ve been standard military issued gear which means it has been used by millions with no major issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has been confirmed that the helicopter crew was wearing night vision goggles.

This is likely to play a role in what they did and did not see. Night vision goggles can greatly reduce your overall vision. I also question whether it is possible to properly read your radar with them on.

One aspect of the investigation should look into why a helicopter training flight was cleared to use night vision goggles in an area with so much air traffic. The seems like an accident waiting to happen.

Confirmed by whom? All I heard in the release was the goggles were on board but they couldn’t confirm if they were in use.

What does goggles have to do with flying st the wrong required altitude?

[Anonymous]

Was the reservist flying the Black Hawk?

[Anonymous]

I find it real bizarre that musk forced the head of the FAA to resign. Apparently he didn’t like the regulations and fines being suggested for Space-X misbehavior. It’s just so weird to me how we are subject to this fool’s desires.

I also read that several air traffic controllers had their job offers rescinded by the new administration. They have been reinstated now of course.