What is just one thing that could reduce the vitriol here?

[Anonymous]

recognition that we are all being tested as a nation

[Anonymous]

Ambien?

[Anonymous]

More cupcake shops in GT. And pork shu mai for everyone!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:recognition that we are all being tested as a nation

and so far, we get an F.

[Anonymous]

Reminding ourselves that we can learn by listening to opposing viewpoints -- either from a Know the enemy standpoint, or better yet, perhaps to learn that we are not enemies.

Attacks and name-calling teach us nothing and just add poison to the atmosphere.

[Anonymous]

If your average American became less lazy and began to educate themselves by watching BBC and CNN International instead of "cartoons for grown ups" like CNN Domestic, Fox News, etc... Then we could begin to have a debate.

Instead, our public debate is bracketed on the "left" by CNN, and on the right by Glenn Beck's demented ravings.

Politics matters. The outcome of political struggle matters. The interests of movement conservatives and progressives are diametrically opposed. On the one hand, you've got policies like progressive taxation, universal health care, and equal civil rights for gays. On the other you've got South American style oligarchy wrapped in an American flag, and carrying a shiny silver cross.

And people *love* shiny things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your average American became less lazy and began to educate themselves by watching BBC and CNN International instead of "cartoons for grown ups" like CNN Domestic, Fox News, etc... Then we could begin to have a debate.

Instead, our public debate is bracketed on the "left" by CNN, and on the right by Glenn Beck's demented ravings.

Politics matters. The outcome of political struggle matters. The interests of movement conservatives and progressives are diametrically opposed. On the one hand, you've got policies like progressive taxation, universal health care, and equal civil rights for gays. On the other you've got South American style oligarchy wrapped in an American flag, and carrying a shiny silver cross.

And people *love* shiny things.

PP and I probably have similar progressive/liberal views, but I respectfully suggest that this is not a helpful answer to the question at hand. First because we have no control over the average American. Second because the description of the right, which I have no doubt echoed at times, is a caricature that adds to the vitriol OP is trying to avoid.

A little charity toward those who disagree with us, an assumption that, misled though they may be, their intentions are perhaps as honorable as ours -- that might help.

[Anonymous]

PP here. Fair enough: I'll rephrase it then.

The reason there is vitriol in this country is that there are two legitimate philosophical positions around which most of the political power in this country coalesces. Those two positions are in every way diametrically opposed, and irreconcilable.

To a certain extent, this is due to the winner-take-all two party system we have. You win by villifing the opposition.

I'm curious, though: what's the practical solution proposed by "centrists"? It always seems to be, "Let's find a bipartisan compromise." But what sort of compromise do you get between, say, "abortion is always murder" and "women should have the right to control their fertility"? Or "everyone should have health care" and "it's not important that everyone have health care"? Or "citizens must be guaranteed a minimum standard of living in their old age" and "citizens should be left to die in poverty if their investments don't pan out"?

Because those are the things you need to reconcile. And you don't do that by asking people to be nicer to one another. In fact, if history has shown us anything, it's that the far right in this country owes its success to demonizing the opposition and a complete and utter rejection of any compromise at the national legislative level.

I don't disagree that individual conservatives have honorable intentions. It's just that, where it matters, those intentions are absolutely antithetical to the spirit in which this country was founded.

[Anonymous]

OP here, we are moving in the right direction. Of course it won't be easy but is the only solution.

Intelligent people can remove the crap. He misspelled potato. Lots of that can go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, we are moving in the right direction. Of course it won't be easy but is the only solution.

Whaa? Specifically, how is it getting better.

This reminds me of the old Camper Van Bethoveen tune, "The Ambiguity Song":


Everything seems to be up in the air at this time
One day soon, it'll all settle down
Everything seems to be up in the air at this time
All across the nation, people are gettin' together
From many ideas they form a single goal
Some people are gonna benefit
And others gotta sacrifice
But everything seems to seems to be up in the air at this time.


It's hard, but we're making progress, but, y'know, it's the only solution.

[Anonymous]

10:33 OP again, you are bright and articulate and have lots to offer.

One foundation of our country was the concept that we wanted taxation WITH representation. We fought for and achieved that.

The current circumstance is that too many, quantify it however you like, have representation with no or little taxation. Beyond the representation a whole boatload of benfits has been added to the free representation. To take it one step further the ones on the free ride certainly like it, gladly accept more and often times demand imore. All of this while they actually pay nothing or a very small portion. That seems to be far removed from the "spirit" of the contry's foundation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, we are moving in the right direction. Of course it won't be easy but is the only solution.

Whaa? Specifically, how is it getting better.

This reminds me of the old Camper Van Bethoveen tune, "The Ambiguity Song":


Everything seems to be up in the air at this time
One day soon, it'll all settle down
Everything seems to be up in the air at this time
All across the nation, people are gettin' together
From many ideas they form a single goal
Some people are gonna benefit
And others gotta sacrifice
But everything seems to seems to be up in the air at this time.


It's hard, but we're making progress, but, y'know, it's the only solution.

The person took the time to reword his thoughts. I am impressed if you are not.
What was your idea or do you want to just criticize?

[Anonymous]

I think it pretty simple to compromise.

#1, obviously we cannot have a $14T debt and Obama's budget is beyond irresponsible. What to do? Cut, cut cut AND raise taxes. Raise the SS retirement, reform Medicare (i.e, cut it) AND cut defense by a good $100B or more.

#2, let the courts work out abortion. If Roe is overturned, it will still be legal in many states.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I think it pretty simple to compromise.

#1, obviously we cannot have a $14T debt and Obama's budget is beyond irresponsible. What to do? Cut, cut cut AND raise taxes. Raise the SS retirement, reform Medicare (i.e, cut it) AND cut defense by a good $100B or more.

#2, let the courts work out abortion. If Roe is overturned, it will still be legal in many states.

I also think it would be simple to compromise if everyone would simply accept my ideas.

[Anonymous]

I think the natural compromise on abortion is to keep it "legal", but make it impossible to get one. And I have to agree with PP: this nation was founded on the bedrock principle of "One Dollar, One Vote"

Clearly the compromise here is to allow a citizen one vote for each house they own. That way Galtian overlords like OP will be fairly represented, and the pararasites who are trying to take what's his will be thwarted.