For Westchester New York Transplants Which neighborhoods are most similar in NoVA and MD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The closest you will get to a New England or NJ/NY/CT-type town here is Falls Church City. It has it's own school system and is not part of the county school district. it also has a sort-of-cute downtown area. It is also, pretty homogeneous, which is similar to the wealthy NYC and Boston 'burbs.

FCC doesn’t have a cute downtown and the housing is certainly nothing what you’d find in an expensive part of Westchester. It’s more like White Plains, Dobbs Ferry, or Eastchester.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So, the disastrous township systems in places like NY and NJ far predate this obsession with school quality.

The high taxes in these places are partially a function of these antiquated local government structures. And school taxes are high primarily because the schools have been built around these tiny districts that drive up costs dramatically. It's not because the parents all demand top, top schools. Even in towns where the schools suck, they still cost a fortune.

But those schools are also more responsive to the community. When the mayor and everyone on the school board sends their kids to the same schools, it makes a difference.

When school districts have essentially no diversity, people have much less problem sending their kids there.

I am the poster you are quoting. I am not white, and grew up in a town in Westchester that was ( and still is) diverse. With a few exceptions, I find Westchester to be less segregated than many areas in the DMV.

What? No way. Most of the areas that are not adjacent to the NYC border are overall whiter and/or more segregated than the DMV. I can't help but roll my eyes at all my fellow village residents who put up "no matter where you're from, you're my neighbor signs" when every single one of their neighbors are just as white and US-born as they are. Except that one family around the corner where the husband's Canadian.

Like someone else posted, the reality of the segregation in Westchester becomes more obvious when you've lived in places outside of NY/NJ/NE and had exposure to local governments and school systems that are at the county level, where you usually have *some* socioeconomic diversity purely due to the population scale. The NY village/town fiefdoms allow for de facto segregation to continue when you're only dealing with, say, 10,000 residents.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:That feeling is because Alexandria is definitely The South.
Also hybla valley and Mount Vernon / route 1 there have always been sketchy from a crime perspective.

OK, agree re Hybla Valley and Mount Vernon, but complaining that Alexandria is the South is odd. Of course a city on the border of the South isn't going to feel like New England or Westchester, but it has its own charm... If you don't like that, DC (itself, like Baltimore, a southern city) may not be the right fit for you.

This description of people who live in the NY metro area, like happy extended families where everyone waves every morning and hangs over their fence with their cup of coffee saying howdy neighbor, is 180 degrees from the place I spent 20 years of my life in.

Sense of community... more like rat race snobs and social climbers who couldn't find an excuse to say hi if you were locked in a cave with them for a month.

Seriously. In my Chappaqua neighborhood in the 90s, the fathers would play poker in their basements while snorting coke. How do I know this? My dad went to one game when we moved there and never went back after seeing them doing lines.

This was where most of the PWC & Bear Stearns assholes lived — Westchester and Greenwich, basically. So I don’t know why anyone thinks these are terrific communities.

At least they didn’t drink sweet tea.

Well, one of them died because he came home completely drunk and fell down his stairs. Left 2 young kids.

I grew up in Mt. Kisco in the 90s. Why do I have no recollection of this?

I grew up in chappaqua in the 90s and have no recollection of this, either. It might have happened (in turned 8 in 1990 and with 3 elementary schools was perhaps shielded) but this scenario of coke fueled finance dads playing basement poker does not resonate with my experience growing up whatsoever.

Heeeyyyyy I turned 8 in 1990 living in Chappaqua too! It was definitely rich and definitely snobby but I loved my childhood and am still friends with lots of people from high school. I don’t remember this coke incident but I remember when there was a mob related? murder. And maybe drugs dealt at the pizza place?

I’m the PP who had neighbors who snorted coke. Do you mean the pizza place down near the middle school? Pizza Station? Wow I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That feeling is because Alexandria is definitely The South.
Also hybla valley and Mount Vernon / route 1 there have always been sketchy from a crime perspective.

OK, agree re Hybla Valley and Mount Vernon, but complaining that Alexandria is the South is odd. Of course a city on the border of the South isn't going to feel like New England or Westchester, but it has its own charm... If you don't like that, DC (itself, like Baltimore, a southern city) may not be the right fit for you.

This description of people who live in the NY metro area, like happy extended families where everyone waves every morning and hangs over their fence with their cup of coffee saying howdy neighbor, is 180 degrees from the place I spent 20 years of my life in.

Sense of community... more like rat race snobs and social climbers who couldn't find an excuse to say hi if you were locked in a cave with them for a month.

Seriously. In my Chappaqua neighborhood in the 90s, the fathers would play poker in their basements while snorting coke. How do I know this? My dad went to one game when we moved there and never went back after seeing them doing lines.

This was where most of the PWC & Bear Stearns assholes lived — Westchester and Greenwich, basically. So I don’t know why anyone thinks these are terrific communities.

At least they didn’t drink sweet tea.

Well, one of them died because he came home completely drunk and fell down his stairs. Left 2 young kids.

I grew up in Mt. Kisco in the 90s. Why do I have no recollection of this?

I grew up in chappaqua in the 90s and have no recollection of this, either. It might have happened (in turned 8 in 1990 and with 3 elementary schools was perhaps shielded) but this scenario of coke fueled finance dads playing basement poker does not resonate with my experience growing up whatsoever.

Heeeyyyyy I turned 8 in 1990 living in Chappaqua too! It was definitely rich and definitely snobby but I loved my childhood and am still friends with lots of people from high school. I don’t remember this coke incident but I remember when there was a mob related? murder. And maybe drugs dealt at the pizza place?

I’m the PP who had neighbors who snorted coke. Do you mean the pizza place down near the middle school? Pizza Station? Wow I had no idea.

Ha no that was the nicer pizza place. The one near Penny Auntie. I think it was called Mario's? But I don't remember. There were definitely rumors that girls did sexual favors for drugs from that pizza place. But I was only friends with innocent nerds in middle school so we just went to town on Fridays to buy candy.

[Anonymous]

I moved from New York (city though) and moved here in 2013. There is nothing like Weschester here, That being said I would recommend the Ciry of Falls Church, Vienna and Fairfax Coty. Get something next to the town center.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I grew up in New Canaan, CT, went to college in the Boston area, have a sister in Newton and one in Montclair, NJ, so I've got my bona fides with respect to Tri-State and Southern New England suburbs. I've lived in the DC area for 25 years, and have raised a family in a very friendly neighborhood in Chevy Chase (MD). OP, even if you could afford to pay twice as much as your budget allows, you're not going to find what you're looking for here. There are two key reasons:

1) The suburbs here don't have downtown areas that have evolved over 100 years with a mix of locally-owned, long-lived and much-loved restaurants and stores at different price points. "Downtown Bethesda" is not the same thing -- it's like an outdoor mall.

2) The public school systems in this area are huge and many more suburban kids go to private school here than is typical in the NY and Boston suburbs. That means you don't get the same level of community involvement and cohesiveness. Even in my super-friendly neighborhood, after elementary school, the kids all split up to go to lots of different schools. If your kids go to private school after elementary (as mine did), their friends will live all over the DMV.

Don't get me wrong -- it's not awful here. Washington is an interesting place to live if you practice law or work in journalism or politics (that's what brought us here). But, if you don't have a compelling career-related reason to come here, I would urge you to consider whether you can avoid moving.

I'm not convinced that many more suburban kids in northern Virginia go to private schools than the NY suburbs. I grew up in north Jersey and about half my close friends left for private or Catholic schools once we hit junior high / high school age.

Many of the great private high schools in the country are in north Jersey, I almost went to Blair myself. This may be something you've observed in Chevy Chase but I've not seen any evidence that more kids here go to private. I'd like to see the numbers.

You think Blair Academy is one of the "great private high schools in the country"?

Last I checked it was still a top ten private school in NJ.

Yeah, ok. I’ve never heard of it and I grew up in the area. It’s surely not Horace Mann, Collegiate, Dalton, etc.

I’d think Lawrenceville, Hun, Peddie, Pingry, Montclair Kimberley, Princeton Day and Delbarton are all fairly posh.

Posh is not the same as excellent.

[Anonymous]

I’m not as familiar with Westchester, but Vienna reminds me most of the Fairfield County downtowns I know. I don’t think anything is truly comparable though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d rather pay high taxes and feel free to use the public schools because they genre really good than pay medium taxes and pay for private on top of that.

You don't have to pay high taxes to get good schools.

You know you have the freedom to decide where you live? You don't have to buy in an area with high taxes and bad schools. In fact, most people would say that is a pretty stupid thing to do if you plan on having kids.

[Anonymous]

We used to live in NYC but followed the "when in Rome, do as the Romans" line of thought when moving to this area. Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Great Falls, McLean and Potomac are the top suburbs in this area. Maybe North Arlington now, too.

If you really want, you can make comparisons - Chevy Chase has an older housing stock, Bethesda and Potomac have a significant Jewish population, and Great Falls and McLean have some Bedford-like affluence. But it's not really worth the exercise if you ask me. There are advantages to smaller towns, but county-wide systems prop up the poorer areas in a way you don't find further north. It's telling that no one comes on here and asks where you can find the equivalent of Mount Vernon and Yonkers in NoVa and MD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We used to live in NYC but followed the "when in Rome, do as the Romans" line of thought when moving to this area. Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Great Falls, McLean and Potomac are the top suburbs in this area. Maybe North Arlington now, too.

If you really want, you can make comparisons - Chevy Chase has an older housing stock, Bethesda and Potomac have a significant Jewish population, and Great Falls and McLean have some Bedford-like affluence. But it's not really worth the exercise if you ask me. There are advantages to smaller towns, but county-wide systems prop up the poorer areas in a way you don't find further north. It's telling that no one comes on here and asks where you can find the equivalent of Mount Vernon and Yonkers in NoVa and MD.

And I bet no one is going on NY message boards asking where you can find the equivalent of Gaithersburg or Germantown or Woodbridge so what’s your point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We used to live in NYC but followed the "when in Rome, do as the Romans" line of thought when moving to this area. Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Great Falls, McLean and Potomac are the top suburbs in this area. Maybe North Arlington now, too.

If you really want, you can make comparisons - Chevy Chase has an older housing stock, Bethesda and Potomac have a significant Jewish population, and Great Falls and McLean have some Bedford-like affluence. But it's not really worth the exercise if you ask me. There are advantages to smaller towns, but county-wide systems prop up the poorer areas in a way you don't find further north. It's telling that no one comes on here and asks where you can find the equivalent of Mount Vernon and Yonkers in NoVa and MD.

^ This. Quite honestly avoiding the exorbitant NY taxes is a positive. Why do you think the population growth in NYS is anemic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the disastrous township systems in places like NY and NJ far predate this obsession with school quality.

The high taxes in these places are partially a function of these antiquated local government structures. And school taxes are high primarily because the schools have been built around these tiny districts that drive up costs dramatically. It's not because the parents all demand top, top schools. Even in towns where the schools suck, they still cost a fortune.

But those schools are also more responsive to the community. When the mayor and everyone on the school board sends their kids to the same schools, it makes a difference.

When school districts have essentially no diversity, people have much less problem sending their kids there.

I am the poster you are quoting. I am not white, and grew up in a town in Westchester that was ( and still is) diverse. With a few exceptions, I find Westchester to be less segregated than many areas in the DMV.

What? No way. Most of the areas that are not adjacent to the NYC border are overall whiter and/or more segregated than the DMV. I can't help but roll my eyes at all my fellow village residents who put up "no matter where you're from, you're my neighbor signs" when every single one of their neighbors are just as white and US-born as they are. Except that one family around the corner where the husband's Canadian.

Like someone else posted, the reality of the segregation in Westchester becomes more obvious when you've lived in places outside of NY/NJ/NE and had exposure to local governments and school systems that are at the county level, where you usually have *some* socioeconomic diversity purely due to the population scale. The NY village/town fiefdoms allow for de facto segregation to continue when you're only dealing with, say, 10,000 residents.

MCPS is very segregated. This fact has been all over the news recently. Have you not heard about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the disastrous township systems in places like NY and NJ far predate this obsession with school quality.

The high taxes in these places are partially a function of these antiquated local government structures. And school taxes are high primarily because the schools have been built around these tiny districts that drive up costs dramatically. It's not because the parents all demand top, top schools. Even in towns where the schools suck, they still cost a fortune.

But those schools are also more responsive to the community. When the mayor and everyone on the school board sends their kids to the same schools, it makes a difference.

When school districts have essentially no diversity, people have much less problem sending their kids there.

I am the poster you are quoting. I am not white, and grew up in a town in Westchester that was ( and still is) diverse. With a few exceptions, I find Westchester to be less segregated than many areas in the DMV.

What? No way. Most of the areas that are not adjacent to the NYC border are overall whiter and/or more segregated than the DMV. I can't help but roll my eyes at all my fellow village residents who put up "no matter where you're from, you're my neighbor signs" when every single one of their neighbors are just as white and US-born as they are. Except that one family around the corner where the husband's Canadian.

Like someone else posted, the reality of the segregation in Westchester becomes more obvious when you've lived in places outside of NY/NJ/NE and had exposure to local governments and school systems that are at the county level, where you usually have *some* socioeconomic diversity purely due to the population scale. The NY village/town fiefdoms allow for de facto segregation to continue when you're only dealing with, say, 10,000 residents.

MCPS is very segregated. This fact has been all over the news recently. Have you not heard about it?

The county schools largely reflect the demographics of the adjacent neighborhoods. That is normal. The difference is in a place like MOCO funding is collected at the county level and distributed across the county in rich and poor areas.

In places like NJ and NY funding is collected and distributed at a smaller scale so resources are concentrated in wealthier districts. States like NJ do have redistribution mechanisms that spread some funds but is much more contentious and inefficient than running everything at the county level.

[Anonymous]

Let's look at some Westchester schools:

Bronxville HS - 83.9% White

Rye HS - 82.7% White

Mamaroneck HS - 71.1% White

Scarsdale HS - 68.4% White

Harrison HS - 67.9% White

Pelham Memorial HS - 66.9% White

Compare that to Churchill (46.7% White) or McLean (53.3% White) - and Potomac and McLean are often labeled "lily white" on these forums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the disastrous township systems in places like NY and NJ far predate this obsession with school quality.

The high taxes in these places are partially a function of these antiquated local government structures. And school taxes are high primarily because the schools have been built around these tiny districts that drive up costs dramatically. It's not because the parents all demand top, top schools. Even in towns where the schools suck, they still cost a fortune.

But those schools are also more responsive to the community. When the mayor and everyone on the school board sends their kids to the same schools, it makes a difference.

When school districts have essentially no diversity, people have much less problem sending their kids there.

I am the poster you are quoting. I am not white, and grew up in a town in Westchester that was ( and still is) diverse. With a few exceptions, I find Westchester to be less segregated than many areas in the DMV.

What? No way. Most of the areas that are not adjacent to the NYC border are overall whiter and/or more segregated than the DMV. I can't help but roll my eyes at all my fellow village residents who put up "no matter where you're from, you're my neighbor signs" when every single one of their neighbors are just as white and US-born as they are. Except that one family around the corner where the husband's Canadian.

Like someone else posted, the reality of the segregation in Westchester becomes more obvious when you've lived in places outside of NY/NJ/NE and had exposure to local governments and school systems that are at the county level, where you usually have *some* socioeconomic diversity purely due to the population scale. The NY village/town fiefdoms allow for de facto segregation to continue when you're only dealing with, say, 10,000 residents.

MCPS is very segregated. This fact has been all over the news recently. Have you not heard about it?

The county schools largely reflect the demographics of the adjacent neighborhoods. That is normal. The difference is in a place like MOCO funding is collected at the county level and distributed across the county in rich and poor areas.

In places like NJ and NY funding is collected and distributed at a smaller scale so resources are concentrated in wealthier districts. States like NJ do have redistribution mechanisms that spread some funds but is much more contentious and inefficient than running everything at the county level.

OK, but we are talking about segregation. MCPS is quite segregated, no one can dispute that.

As for equitable distribution of funds, go take a look at Eastern MS. It is falling down around the students and the teachers and nobody pays attention to the complaints. There is water dripping from the ceilings.. Seriously. Nothing in Potomac or Bethesda bears any resemblance to it. The Carderock foundation has made all kinds of improvements to the local elementary school. The list goes on. Sports fields, facilities, PTA resources. Definitely not equitable.

At least in a town-based school system, parents have a voice.