Decreasing in Quality

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous[b wrote:]I don't know how someone has not mentioned UVA. Little STEM[/b]. The VA schools with strong STEM just keep getting stronger.

This is such a weird/incorrect comment since UVa is a tier-one research university with extensive undergraduate and graduate programs in sciences, engineering, math, and medicine funded by vast funding and resources. If anything, the educational emphasis at UVa has shifted to stem fields in the last twenty-years to reflect the social/economic emphasis on these fields.

But UVA has a very low percentage of graduates majoring in STEM fields compared to other top schools. Vast funding and resources is also inaccurate if you are doing a comparison.

Here is a list of top 20 national universities plus top 5 national LACs plus selected publics (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Texas, UVA) ranked by percentage of students in CS, Engineering, Physical Sciences, Bio/Life Sciences, and Math/Statistics:

University Total
Caltech 98%
MIT 89%
Stanford 50%
Duke 48%
Princeton 47%
Harvard 46%
Swarthmore 44%
Cornell 44%
Rice 42%
WashU 41%
Michigan 41%
Pomona 40%
Berkeley 36%
Brown 36%
Williams 35%
Northwestern 34%
Amherst 34%
Texas 34%
Wellesley 33%
Yale 33%
UCLA 33%
Notre Dame 33%
Dartmouth 32%
Vanderbilt 31%
Penn 30%
UVA 27%

Did it ever occur to you that UVA doesn't need more STEM because Virginia has Virginia Tech? And we also have William & Mary for the smaller LAC experience. Then there are all the other Virginia universities to select from.

It occurs to me that UVA would probably like to compare itself to many of the schools above it in the list. I'm pretty sure the last several presidents have had their eyes on similar numbers.

It's already ranked as no. 3 for public universities in America. I don't think it needs to compare itself to anyone else. It's hard enough to get into already from NOVA. "In 2019, the University was ranked the No. 3 best public university by U.S. News & World Report. In the 20 years since U.S. News began ranking public universities as a separate category, UVA has ranked in the top three and continues to rank in the Top 30 among the best of all national universities, public and private.'

UVA is number 4 in USNWR now, behind UCLA, Berkeley, and Michigan. It used to be ahead of all of those schools. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

This change happened only because USN&WR changed the criteria of ranking to include number of Pell grants students. Universities have no ability to alter, change or pick Pell Grant students. I understand USN&WR is dropping that next year.

How can universities not choose the number of Pell grant students??

Because Pell Grants are entirely controlled by the U.S. Department of Education. Go read up on Pells Grants in wiki. Students apply to a university and check off on the common application that they will need financial assistance. That's all the school knows when the student is applying (unless they come in via Questbridge). The institution reviews the application and takes them in on stats or URM, or low income, etc. etc. etc. Only after acceptance does the student (or in some cases the financial aid office instructs them) does the student and family file the FAFSA with the U.S. Department of Education. Once the FAFSA is processed the Department of Education decides who is qualified for Pell Grants. Virginia's students are slightly better off (weather per capita) than Michigan's, UCLA's and Berkeley's so when the number of Pell Grant recipients is tallied, Virginia comes in behind them. Prior to including that factor, UVA always ranked above Michigan and sometimes above UCLA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pell_Grant

[Anonymous]

This obsession with UVA's ranking between 24-28 is entirely irrelevant. Anyone with basic knowledge of universities know that UCLA/Michigan/UNC are far more respected throughout the country and the world in terms of academics. UVA has the connection with Thomas Jefferson, which is the only differentiating factor in its favor.

[Anonymous]

Cue rabid UVA poster in 3, 2, 1...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]I don't know how someone has not mentioned UVA. Little STEM[/b]. The VA schools with strong STEM just keep getting stronger.

This is such a weird/incorrect comment since UVa is a tier-one research university with extensive undergraduate and graduate programs in sciences, engineering, math, and medicine funded by vast funding and resources. If anything, the educational emphasis at UVa has shifted to stem fields in the last twenty-years to reflect the social/economic emphasis on these fields.

But UVA has a very low percentage of graduates majoring in STEM fields compared to other top schools. Vast funding and resources is also inaccurate if you are doing a comparison.

Here is a list of top 20 national universities plus top 5 national LACs plus selected publics (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Texas, UVA) ranked by percentage of students in CS, Engineering, Physical Sciences, Bio/Life Sciences, and Math/Statistics:

University Total
Caltech 98%
MIT 89%
Stanford 50%
Duke 48%
Princeton 47%
Harvard 46%
Swarthmore 44%
Cornell 44%
Rice 42%
WashU 41%
Michigan 41%
Pomona 40%
Berkeley 36%
Brown 36%
Williams 35%
Northwestern 34%
Amherst 34%
Texas 34%
Wellesley 33%
Yale 33%
UCLA 33%
Notre Dame 33%
Dartmouth 32%
Vanderbilt 31%
Penn 30%
UVA 27%

Did it ever occur to you that UVA doesn't need more STEM because Virginia has Virginia Tech? And we also have William & Mary for the smaller LAC experience. Then there are all the other Virginia universities to select from.

It occurs to me that UVA would probably like to compare itself to many of the schools above it in the list. I'm pretty sure the last several presidents have had their eyes on similar numbers.

It's already ranked as no. 3 for public universities in America. I don't think it needs to compare itself to anyone else. It's hard enough to get into already from NOVA. "In 2019, the University was ranked the No. 3 best public university by U.S. News & World Report. In the 20 years since U.S. News began ranking public universities as a separate category, UVA has ranked in the top three and continues to rank in the Top 30 among the best of all national universities, public and private.'

UVA is number 4 in USNWR now, behind UCLA, Berkeley, and Michigan. It used to be ahead of all of those schools. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

This change happened only because USN&WR changed the criteria of ranking to include number of Pell grants students. Universities have no ability to alter, change or pick Pell Grant students. I understand USN&WR is dropping that next year.

How can universities not choose the number of Pell grant students??

Because Pell Grants are entirely controlled by the U.S. Department of Education. Go read up on Pells Grants in wiki. Students apply to a university and check off on the common application that they will need financial assistance. That's all the school knows when the student is applying (unless they come in via Questbridge). The institution reviews the application and takes them in on stats or URM, or low income, etc. etc. etc. Only after acceptance does the student (or in some cases the financial aid office instructs them) does the student and family file the FAFSA with the U.S. Department of Education. Once the FAFSA is processed the Department of Education decides who is qualified for Pell Grants. Virginia's students are slightly better off (weather per capita) than Michigan's, UCLA's and Berkeley's so when the number of Pell Grant recipients is tallied, Virginia comes in behind them. Prior to including that factor, UVA always ranked above Michigan and sometimes above UCLA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pell_Grant

Thank you for clarifying. I thought that it was something that accompanied the FA box.

[Anonymous]

I suspect the UC's to suffer due to their new super woke policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]I don't know how someone has not mentioned UVA. Little STEM[/b]. The VA schools with strong STEM just keep getting stronger.

This is such a weird/incorrect comment since UVa is a tier-one research university with extensive undergraduate and graduate programs in sciences, engineering, math, and medicine funded by vast funding and resources. If anything, the educational emphasis at UVa has shifted to stem fields in the last twenty-years to reflect the social/economic emphasis on these fields.

But UVA has a very low percentage of graduates majoring in STEM fields compared to other top schools. Vast funding and resources is also inaccurate if you are doing a comparison.

Here is a list of top 20 national universities plus top 5 national LACs plus selected publics (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Texas, UVA) ranked by percentage of students in CS, Engineering, Physical Sciences, Bio/Life Sciences, and Math/Statistics:

University Total
Caltech 98%
MIT 89%
Stanford 50%
Duke 48%
Princeton 47%
Harvard 46%
Swarthmore 44%
Cornell 44%
Rice 42%
WashU 41%
Michigan 41%
Pomona 40%
Berkeley 36%
Brown 36%
Williams 35%
Northwestern 34%
Amherst 34%
Texas 34%
Wellesley 33%
Yale 33%
UCLA 33%
Notre Dame 33%
Dartmouth 32%
Vanderbilt 31%
Penn 30%
UVA 27%

Did it ever occur to you that UVA doesn't need more STEM because Virginia has Virginia Tech? And we also have William & Mary for the smaller LAC experience. Then there are all the other Virginia universities to select from.

It occurs to me that UVA would probably like to compare itself to many of the schools above it in the list. I'm pretty sure the last several presidents have had their eyes on similar numbers.

It's already ranked as no. 3 for public universities in America. I don't think it needs to compare itself to anyone else. It's hard enough to get into already from NOVA. "In 2019, the University was ranked the No. 3 best public university by U.S. News & World Report. In the 20 years since U.S. News began ranking public universities as a separate category, UVA has ranked in the top three and continues to rank in the Top 30 among the best of all national universities, public and private.'

UVA is number 4 in USNWR now, behind UCLA, Berkeley, and Michigan. It used to be ahead of all of those schools. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

This change happened only because USN&WR changed the criteria of ranking to include number of Pell grants students. Universities have no ability to alter, change or pick Pell Grant students. I understand USN&WR is dropping that next year.

How can universities not choose the number of Pell grant students??

Because Pell Grants are entirely controlled by the U.S. Department of Education. Go read up on Pells Grants in wiki. Students apply to a university and check off on the common application that they will need financial assistance. That's all the school knows when the student is applying (unless they come in via Questbridge). The institution reviews the application and takes them in on stats or URM, or low income, etc. etc. etc. Only after acceptance does the student (or in some cases the financial aid office instructs them) does the student and family file the FAFSA with the U.S. Department of Education. Once the FAFSA is processed the Department of Education decides who is qualified for Pell Grants. Virginia's students are slightly better off (weather per capita) than Michigan's, UCLA's and Berkeley's so when the number of Pell Grant recipients is tallied, Virginia comes in behind them. Prior to including that factor, UVA always ranked above Michigan and sometimes above UCLA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pell_Grant

Thank you for clarifying. I thought that it was something that accompanied the FA box.

If USnews is dropping the pell grant thing, which schools would benefit most? I expect the UC's to drop then, as they rose after to the pell grant accommodation. I'm assuming poor schools like Georgetown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]I don't know how someone has not mentioned UVA. Little STEM[/b]. The VA schools with strong STEM just keep getting stronger.

This is such a weird/incorrect comment since UVa is a tier-one research university with extensive undergraduate and graduate programs in sciences, engineering, math, and medicine funded by vast funding and resources. If anything, the educational emphasis at UVa has shifted to stem fields in the last twenty-years to reflect the social/economic emphasis on these fields.

But UVA has a very low percentage of graduates majoring in STEM fields compared to other top schools. Vast funding and resources is also inaccurate if you are doing a comparison.

Here is a list of top 20 national universities plus top 5 national LACs plus selected publics (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Texas, UVA) ranked by percentage of students in CS, Engineering, Physical Sciences, Bio/Life Sciences, and Math/Statistics:

University Total
Caltech 98%
MIT 89%
Stanford 50%
Duke 48%
Princeton 47%
Harvard 46%
Swarthmore 44%
Cornell 44%
Rice 42%
WashU 41%
Michigan 41%
Pomona 40%
Berkeley 36%
Brown 36%
Williams 35%
Northwestern 34%
Amherst 34%
Texas 34%
Wellesley 33%
Yale 33%
UCLA 33%
Notre Dame 33%
Dartmouth 32%
Vanderbilt 31%
Penn 30%
UVA 27%

Did it ever occur to you that UVA doesn't need more STEM because Virginia has Virginia Tech? And we also have William & Mary for the smaller LAC experience. Then there are all the other Virginia universities to select from.

It occurs to me that UVA would probably like to compare itself to many of the schools above it in the list. I'm pretty sure the last several presidents have had their eyes on similar numbers.

It's already ranked as no. 3 for public universities in America. I don't think it needs to compare itself to anyone else. It's hard enough to get into already from NOVA. "In 2019, the University was ranked the No. 3 best public university by U.S. News & World Report. In the 20 years since U.S. News began ranking public universities as a separate category, UVA has ranked in the top three and continues to rank in the Top 30 among the best of all national universities, public and private.'

UVA is number 4 in USNWR now, behind UCLA, Berkeley, and Michigan. It used to be ahead of all of those schools. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

This change happened only because USN&WR changed the criteria of ranking to include number of Pell grants students. Universities have no ability to alter, change or pick Pell Grant students. I understand USN&WR is dropping that next year.

How can universities not choose the number of Pell grant students??

Because Pell Grants are entirely controlled by the U.S. Department of Education. Go read up on Pells Grants in wiki. Students apply to a university and check off on the common application that they will need financial assistance. That's all the school knows when the student is applying (unless they come in via Questbridge). The institution reviews the application and takes them in on stats or URM, or low income, etc. etc. etc. Only after acceptance does the student (or in some cases the financial aid office instructs them) does the student and family file the FAFSA with the U.S. Department of Education. Once the FAFSA is processed the Department of Education decides who is qualified for Pell Grants. Virginia's students are slightly better off (weather per capita) than Michigan's, UCLA's and Berkeley's so when the number of Pell Grant recipients is tallied, Virginia comes in behind them. Prior to including that factor, UVA always ranked above Michigan and sometimes above UCLA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pell_Grant

Thank you for clarifying. I thought that it was something that accompanied the FA box.

If USnews is dropping the pell grant thing, which schools would benefit most? I expect the UC's to drop then, as they rose after to the pell grant accommodation. I'm assuming poor schools like Georgetown. [/quote] They would probably revert back to the pre-Pell Grant inclusion point, which is about 2018. So if you googled USN&WR ratings 2018 you would probably find them. Remember to look up most appropriate list. Georgetown being a private university is better clumped with other privates, whereas the publics have their own ranking. There are many subcategories. For example, last year UVA was no. 2 "Best Value" public and No. 4 Best Public in the nation. Prior to the inclusion of Pell Grant, it was no. 2 or 3 Best Public. https://news.virginia.edu/content/us-news-ranks-uva-no-2-best-value-among-public-schools-no-4-public-overall. Publics and privates shouldn't be compared because they have different missions, so you should check Georgetown under "best universities" and compare rankings for 2018, 2019, 2020.

[Anonymous]

Where did you see that USNWR is dropping Pell grants (social mobility)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]I don't know how someone has not mentioned UVA. Little STEM[/b]. The VA schools with strong STEM just keep getting stronger.

This is such a weird/incorrect comment since UVa is a tier-one research university with extensive undergraduate and graduate programs in sciences, engineering, math, and medicine funded by vast funding and resources. If anything, the educational emphasis at UVa has shifted to stem fields in the last twenty-years to reflect the social/economic emphasis on these fields.

But UVA has a very low percentage of graduates majoring in STEM fields compared to other top schools. Vast funding and resources is also inaccurate if you are doing a comparison.

Here is a list of top 20 national universities plus top 5 national LACs plus selected publics (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Texas, UVA) ranked by percentage of students in CS, Engineering, Physical Sciences, Bio/Life Sciences, and Math/Statistics:

University Total
Caltech 98%
MIT 89%
Stanford 50%
Duke 48%
Princeton 47%
Harvard 46%
Swarthmore 44%
Cornell 44%
Rice 42%
WashU 41%
Michigan 41%
Pomona 40%
Berkeley 36%
Brown 36%
Williams 35%
Northwestern 34%
Amherst 34%
Texas 34%
Wellesley 33%
Yale 33%
UCLA 33%
Notre Dame 33%
Dartmouth 32%
Vanderbilt 31%
Penn 30%
UVA 27%

Did it ever occur to you that UVA doesn't need more STEM because Virginia has Virginia Tech? And we also have William & Mary for the smaller LAC experience. Then there are all the other Virginia universities to select from.

It occurs to me that UVA would probably like to compare itself to many of the schools above it in the list. I'm pretty sure the last several presidents have had their eyes on similar numbers.

It's already ranked as no. 3 for public universities in America. I don't think it needs to compare itself to anyone else. It's hard enough to get into already from NOVA. "In 2019, the University was ranked the No. 3 best public university by U.S. News & World Report. In the 20 years since U.S. News began ranking public universities as a separate category, UVA has ranked in the top three and continues to rank in the Top 30 among the best of all national universities, public and private.'

UVA is number 4 in USNWR now, behind UCLA, Berkeley, and Michigan. It used to be ahead of all of those schools. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

This change happened only because USN&WR changed the criteria of ranking to include number of Pell grants students. Universities have no ability to alter, change or pick Pell Grant students. I understand USN&WR is dropping that next year.

How can universities not choose the number of Pell grant students??

Because Pell Grants are entirely controlled by the U.S. Department of Education. Go read up on Pells Grants in wiki. Students apply to a university and check off on the common application that they will need financial assistance. That's all the school knows when the student is applying (unless they come in via Questbridge). The institution reviews the application and takes them in on stats or URM, or low income, etc. etc. etc. Only after acceptance does the student (or in some cases the financial aid office instructs them) does the student and family file the FAFSA with the U.S. Department of Education. Once the FAFSA is processed the Department of Education decides who is qualified for Pell Grants. Virginia's students are slightly better off (weather per capita) than Michigan's, UCLA's and Berkeley's so when the number of Pell Grant recipients is tallied, Virginia comes in behind them. Prior to including that factor, UVA always ranked above Michigan and sometimes above UCLA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pell_Grant

Thank you for clarifying. I thought that it was something that accompanied the FA box.

If USnews is dropping the pell grant thing, which schools would benefit most? I expect the UC's to drop then, as they rose after to the pell grant accommodation. I'm assuming poor schools like Georgetown. [/quote] They would probably revert back to the pre-Pell Grant inclusion point, which is about 2018. So if you googled USN&WR ratings 2018 you would probably find them. Remember to look up most appropriate list. Georgetown being a private university is better clumped with other privates, whereas the publics have their own ranking. There are many subcategories. For example, last year UVA was no. 2 "Best Value" public and No. 4 Best Public in the nation. Prior to the inclusion of Pell Grant, it was no. 2 or 3 Best Public. https://news.virginia.edu/content/us-news-ranks-uva-no-2-best-value-among-public-schools-no-4-public-overall. Publics and privates shouldn't be compared because they have different missions, so you should check Georgetown under "best universities" and compare rankings for 2018, 2019, 2020.

I thought they were both charged with educating students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where did you see that USNWR is dropping Pell grants (social mobility)?

+1. We could really use a link, if anyone has one.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Occidental

You really are relentless, and wrong.

Interesting. I was just about to say the same and I'm a DP and an alum, but believe what you want to believe.

I know a few unrelated kids who are there and they are all doing great and getting good educations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Occidental

You really are relentless, and wrong.

Interesting. I was just about to say the same and I'm a DP and an alum, but believe what you want to believe.

I know a few unrelated kids who are there and they are all doing great and getting good educations.

Often, the reasons why a university is declining have little to do with the quality of education offered. In general, kids today seem to prefer large or medium, urban, coed universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Occidental

You really are relentless, and wrong.

Interesting. I was just about to say the same and I'm a DP and an alum, but believe what you want to believe.

I know a few unrelated kids who are there and they are all doing great and getting good educations.

Often, the reasons why a university is declining have little to do with the quality of education offered. In general, kids today seem to prefer large or medium, urban, coed universities.

Occidental is not a university, it's a small college in Eagle Rock, CA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Occidental

You really are relentless, and wrong.

Interesting. I was just about to say the same and I'm a DP and an alum, but believe what you want to believe.

I know a few unrelated kids who are there and they are all doing great and getting good educations.

Often, the reasons why a university is declining have little to do with the quality of education offered. In general, kids today seem to prefer large or medium, urban, coed universities.

Occidental is not a university, it's a small college in Eagle Rock, CA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the UC's to suffer due to their new super woke policy.

I suspect they will be just fine and not give a shart what you think.