Difference between NW parent involvement and Capitol Hill parent involvement.

[Anonymous]

Does Latin do the same thing to students who are bilingual?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, some people don't even consider BASIS; some attend but wish they had better options (however they define that) and happily leave for 9th; and others continue through high shool.

Sounds like lots of schools in the city. NOt sure why it attracts the haters.

I think it's because the school - and many of its parents - claims to have the most advanced curriculum for a DC public, at least in MS. That boast strikes some as cocky and arrogant, others as true. It also makes some parents annoyed that their MS doesn't have similar advanced options, albeit in a kinder, gentler, more beautiful setting.

Sort of. I take issue with the assertion that BASIS offers the most "advanced curriculum," at least across the board. While it's true that most advanced math and science classes in both the BASIS MS and HS are far and away the most challenging in the public system in the City, unfortunately, the same can't be said of BASIS' humanities classes. Arguably, humanities is stronger at Washington Latin and possibly Deal. We have neighbors who bailed on BASIS during or after MS mainly because they were fed up with weak and uninspired ELA and foreign language instruction for their humanities-oriented students as much as anything else. For example, the BASIS HS teaches no language past the AP level, while Walls and Wilson do. At Walls, the sky is essentially the limit for advanced language instruction at GW for students who can handle advanced course work. Putting BASIS on a broad-based academic achievement pedestal makes for a tidy argument, but it's not warranted.

BASIS does have AP Latin, fwiw.and also offers more humanities APs than any other public or charter high school in DC.

Right, but the truth is that English, and foreign language instruction, at BASIS is still comparatively weak. Middle school writing assignments and instruction tend not to be inspired. Teacher turnover in humanities subjects is high, higher than for STEM subjects. Worse still, kids who arrive bilingual but not bilingual aren't encouraged to master the foreign language they already speak - they're forced to start over with a 3rd language or take beginning classes in the language they speak. This is sheer idiocy.

You complain about BASIS a lot. I don’t think it’s sheer idiocy for a school to not change its entire curriculum because a kid is bilingual in a different language. It’s not like accommodating the training schedule of an Olympic athlete or something.

Former BASIS parent who's going to challenge your narrow-minded post.

BASIS operates in districts where few non Hispanic immigrant families enroll in public schools. BASIS doesn't offer flexibility to immigrant families who want their students to ace a major world language spoken at home. They aren't used to these sort of students. It was Russian in our case and Arabic in the case of friends who also left. We didn't ask for specialized language instruction. We asked to be left alone to help our middle schoolers achieve fluency in the languages we speak at home. We asked if the kids could take mandatory language class as a study hall period. We didn't ask for the curriculum to change, let alone for the "entire curriculum" to change. The answer was no way, find another school. We did as instructed.

I think asking to have your kid sit out a class is a pretty big request. The only time I’ve ever seen that offered is with sex Ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does Latin do the same thing to students who are bilingual?

They certainly make them take Latin. I don't know if they've ever allowed a student to simultaneously take an advanced section of their other languages. And regardless a bilingual student would top out pretty quickly, even if taking a high school class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Opting out of a class everyone else takes is a curriculum change. Freeing up a staff member to staff a study hall requires extra resources. Offering advanced sections or two of a foreign language also requires hiring another teacher (and god knows they have trouble finding competent Spanish teachers to cover the ones they do offer) .

BASIS has more teachers per grade than other schools to cover the 3 science disciplines students take in 6th, 7th and 8th. That's where they put their resources. If that doesn't work for your family, it does indeed make sense for you to choose something else.

Finally, I'd love to see some empirical evidence that exposure to a third language at school would hurt their ability to learn a second language at home.

Come on, the immigrant parents weren't asking for extra "resources" from BASIS to support their children's language learning. Apparently, they were asking for a little flexibility for a sound academic reason (rooted in ambition) and none was offered by administrators/a charter franchise with tunnel vision.

-Signed,
European parent who grew up trilingual and has observed that "advanced" language study DC public schools is a joke

It may not seem significant to you, but supervising kids in a study hall rather than a required class does take staff resources. And leaving them unattended is not allowed.

I'm curious - where did your kids wind up since they didn't go to BASIS? How has their foreign language instruction been handled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sad truth is that PP above probably wouldn't have done any better here in NW. I've heard similar stories from Deal and Wilson parents trying to raise bilingual and biliterate kids. They didn't want their kids forced to study a 3rd language at school but were given no choice.

DC schools aren't sophisticated about language instruction and the benefits of bilingualism like the school systems MoCo and N. VA. Immigrants who aim high on language instruction need to go private or move to the burbs.

huh? how does being required to study a 3rd language keep your kid from being bilingual? I know plenty of people raised trilingual, doesn't seem to slow them down. It's pretty common among the international set, if you have parents from different countries and then your kid learns a 3rd & 4th language in school (like, mom is French, dad is Dutch, kid goes to school in Netherlands and learns Dutch and English.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Latin do the same thing to students who are bilingual?

They certainly make them take Latin. I don't know if they've ever allowed a student to simultaneously take an advanced section of their other languages. And regardless a bilingual student would top out pretty quickly, even if taking a high school class.

Latin's admins are known to be more flexible than those at BASIS on curricular matters. I know of at least one recent case where a 7th grade student has been able to opt out studying a second language offered by the school in favor of advanced home study in a language not offered. The family has had to provide regular progress reports and a work portfolio to Latin admins. That said, there are hardly any bilingual or ELL students at Latin - the number is miniscule and their language instruction obviously isn't set up to support fluency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad truth is that PP above probably wouldn't have done any better here in NW. I've heard similar stories from Deal and Wilson parents trying to raise bilingual and biliterate kids. They didn't want their kids forced to study a 3rd language at school but were given no choice.

DC schools aren't sophisticated about language instruction and the benefits of bilingualism like the school systems MoCo and N. VA. Immigrants who aim high on language instruction need to go private or move to the burbs.

huh? how does being required to study a 3rd language keep your kid from being bilingual? I know plenty of people raised trilingual, doesn't seem to slow them down. It's pretty common among the international set, if you have parents from different countries and then your kid learns a 3rd & 4th language in school (like, mom is French, dad is Dutch, kid goes to school in Netherlands and learns Dutch and English.)

Were you fully bilingual and biliterate as a preteen, and raised in the US? Or maybe even trilingual and fully triliterate? If yes, you'll understand me when I assert that raising fully bilingual children in mostly monolingual DC in a language other than Spanish is a formidable task.

Some of us who speak a language other than English at home struggle mightily, day and night, to raise fully bilingual and biliterate children, particularly in tough Asian languages without phonetic scripts. We'll leave trilingualism to the Swiss, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Opting out of a class everyone else takes is a curriculum change. Freeing up a staff member to staff a study hall requires extra resources. Offering advanced sections or two of a foreign language also requires hiring another teacher (and god knows they have trouble finding competent Spanish teachers to cover the ones they do offer) .

BASIS has more teachers per grade than other schools to cover the 3 science disciplines students take in 6th, 7th and 8th. That's where they put their resources. If that doesn't work for your family, it does indeed make sense for you to choose something else.

Finally, I'd love to see some empirical evidence that exposure to a third language at school would hurt their ability to learn a second language at home.

Come on, the immigrant parents weren't asking for extra "resources" from BASIS to support their children's language learning. Apparently, they were asking for a little flexibility for a sound academic reason (rooted in ambition) and none was offered by administrators/a charter franchise with tunnel vision.

-Signed,
European parent who grew up trilingual and has observed that "advanced" language study DC public schools is a joke

It may not seem significant to you, but supervising kids in a study hall rather than a required class does take staff resources. And leaving them unattended is not allowed.

I'm curious - where did your kids wind up since they didn't go to BASIS? How has their foreign language instruction been handled?

I'm recently divorced, shared custody, he resides in MoCo where our kids now attend school. In MoCo, public schools haven't required foreign language instruction for years. What the county does require, like many colleges, is that students pass a language proficiency exam to graduate high school. My oldest easily passed the HS proficiency exam in the 8th grade, after attending a heritage weekend language school (also in MoCo) from a young age.

The language we speak isn't taught in MoCo middle schools, but is taught in the HS we've set our sights on. Once he's run out of appropriate HS language classes, he'll probably move on to college classes on the side.

Our family situation isn't ideal, but it's good to have the kids in a system where one size doesn't fit all and thinking outside the box to support academic excellence is tolerated. I'd have gladly sent family members to take him out of language classes at BASIS with another family in similar circumstances if admins would have allowed us. There was never any need to tie up staff to supervise the bilingual kids wishing to opt out of required introductory language classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad truth is that PP above probably wouldn't have done any better here in NW. I've heard similar stories from Deal and Wilson parents trying to raise bilingual and biliterate kids. They didn't want their kids forced to study a 3rd language at school but were given no choice.

DC schools aren't sophisticated about language instruction and the benefits of bilingualism like the school systems MoCo and N. VA. Immigrants who aim high on language instruction need to go private or move to the burbs.

huh? how does being required to study a 3rd language keep your kid from being bilingual? I know plenty of people raised trilingual, doesn't seem to slow them down. It's pretty common among the international set, if you have parents from different countries and then your kid learns a 3rd & 4th language in school (like, mom is French, dad is Dutch, kid goes to school in Netherlands and learns Dutch and English.)

Were you fully bilingual and biliterate as a preteen, and raised in the US? Or maybe even trilingual and fully triliterate? If yes, you'll understand me when I assert that raising fully bilingual children in mostly monolingual DC in a language other than Spanish is a formidable task.

Some of us who speak a language other than English at home struggle mightily, day and night, to raise fully bilingual and biliterate children, particularly in tough Asian languages without phonetic scripts. We'll leave trilingualism to the Swiss, thanks.

Ok so why does this mean your kid is entitled to a tailor-made study hall at Basis instead of just taking French 1? It sounds like you want something really specific an unusual (advance classes in your native language) that's not likely to be at very many schools - nothing to do with Basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad truth is that PP above probably wouldn't have done any better here in NW. I've heard similar stories from Deal and Wilson parents trying to raise bilingual and biliterate kids. They didn't want their kids forced to study a 3rd language at school but were given no choice.

DC schools aren't sophisticated about language instruction and the benefits of bilingualism like the school systems MoCo and N. VA. Immigrants who aim high on language instruction need to go private or move to the burbs.

huh? how does being required to study a 3rd language keep your kid from being bilingual? I know plenty of people raised trilingual, doesn't seem to slow them down. It's pretty common among the international set, if you have parents from different countries and then your kid learns a 3rd & 4th language in school (like, mom is French, dad is Dutch, kid goes to school in Netherlands and learns Dutch and English.)

Were you fully bilingual and biliterate as a preteen, and raised in the US? Or maybe even trilingual and fully triliterate? If yes, you'll understand me when I assert that raising fully bilingual children in mostly monolingual DC in a language other than Spanish is a formidable task.

Some of us who speak a language other than English at home struggle mightily, day and night, to raise fully bilingual and biliterate children, particularly in tough Asian languages without phonetic scripts. We'll leave trilingualism to the Swiss, thanks.

Ok so why does this mean your kid is entitled to a tailor-made study hall at Basis instead of just taking French 1? It sounds like you want something really specific an unusual (advance classes in your native language) that's not likely to be at very many schools - nothing to do with Basis.

Adams parent again. Stop taking pot shots at the PP who makes good points about the sorry state of advanced language instruction in our public schools. You're missing the point.

BASIS is no different than other DC schools where language instruction goes. Our paternalistic ed leaders haven't progressed beyond forcing bilingual students to sit in beginning language classes for scheduling purposes.

Our schools cling to a 20th century approach to language learning. If you're requiring a speaker of one of the world's toughest languages-- e.g. Russian, Chinese, or Arabic--to take French 1 when they don't want to study a 3rd language, they (logically) want to focus on perfecting a very difficult 2nd language (with or without a school being involved), you're missing the forest for the trees. There only so many hours in the day to study. The problem of weak commitment to foreign language learning is very much a US problem. Other rich countries mostly get it right.

[Anonymous]

I feel like the paternalism in DCPS and DCPCS EotP is a lot less than when we started a decade back. But, yea, it's still heavy handed compared the better suburban districts, and even the better established NW DCPS programs.

MoCo, Fairfax, Arlington etc. mostly serve middle-class students. They have the economies of scale to teach multiple world languages languages to a very advanced level, along with the immigrant populations of native speakers.

Each jurisdiction has multiple strong comprehensive high schools. Our near neighbors in the burbs been in the mode of making allowance for individual needs to support high achievement in a variety of disciplines for a long time.