Ward 3 - Wilson feeders meeting last night: did anyone attend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 2-year plan would not work because it would be inequitable: only the Ward 3 kids would have the assured benefit of a 2-year school in the middle grades. No other DCPS school has that. A political non-starter for the rest of the City.

Do you realize that most of the kids who go to Wilson don't live in Ward 3?

That part is equitable. But the part about giving special treatment to Deal and Hardy (Ward 3 schools) is not at all equitable.

Wait, why is this better? Personally I would prefer a 3 year school and then a 4-year school, rather than changing schools twice. What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a good example of why "equity" and "equitable" are just slippery code words. They can mean many different things, and anyone can easily show how almost any solution is not properly "equitable" to someone.

If you have a better word, we're all ears.

[Anonymous]

I'm not convinced that a 2 year middle school is inequitable.

However, I am certain that DCPS and the DME are using the definition of equity discussed in this education blog

https://edtrust.org/the-equity-line/equity-and-equality-are-not-equal/

[Anonymous]

OK, I'm reading the materials from the May 16 meeting, and I have a perhaps dumb question .... Why do so many students want to go to Deal and Wilson? I ask because there's lots of discussion at the meeting and on these boards about trying to find some way to make other schools attractive to parents, so parents will want to choose other schools besides Deal and Wilson. What is it that makes Deal and Wilson so popular?

It's not just money, because per-pupil funding is the same across all schools. I recognize there's some economies of scale, where a large school like Deal can pool its per-pupil money to offer lots of benefits that might not be available to a less populated school. But if we suddenly adjusted boundaries to create an equal sized middle school in another part of town, I don't expect it would attract as many families as Deal.

I'm sure that for all the families living in the immediate Deal neighborhoods, it's largely about proximity. They want to go to the school that's closest.

I suspect that for some white families living EOTP, the desire for Deal may be a race preference.

I suppose lots of people will say its about higher PARCC scores. I guess that assumes that if your child goes to a higher PARCC score school, then your child will get smarter. Maybe it also assumes that a higher PARCC score school must be just generally better run.

Why do OOB families commute long distances to attend Deal and its feeders? What's the draw that justifies the effort?

Similarly, why do neighborhoods fight so hard to keep access to Deal when there could be other middle schools closer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 2-year plan would not work because it would be inequitable: only the Ward 3 kids would have the assured benefit of a 2-year school in the middle grades. No other DCPS school has that. A political non-starter for the rest of the City.

Do you realize that most of the kids who go to Wilson don't live in Ward 3?

That part is equitable. But the part about giving special treatment to Deal and Hardy (Ward 3 schools) is not at all equitable.

I've got news for you. Hardy is definitely not a "Ward 3 school"!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I'm reading the materials from the May 16 meeting, and I have a perhaps dumb question .... Why do so many students want to go to Deal and Wilson? I ask because there's lots of discussion at the meeting and on these boards about trying to find some way to make other schools attractive to parents, so parents will want to choose other schools besides Deal and Wilson. What is it that makes Deal and Wilson so popular?

It's not just money, because per-pupil funding is the same across all schools. I recognize there's some economies of scale, where a large school like Deal can pool its per-pupil money to offer lots of benefits that might not be available to a less populated school. But if we suddenly adjusted boundaries to create an equal sized middle school in another part of town, I don't expect it would attract as many families as Deal.

I'm sure that for all the families living in the immediate Deal neighborhoods, it's largely about proximity. They want to go to the school that's closest.

I suspect that for some white families living EOTP, the desire for Deal may be a race preference.

I suppose lots of people will say its about higher PARCC scores. I guess that assumes that if your child goes to a higher PARCC score school, then your child will get smarter. Maybe it also assumes that a higher PARCC score school must be just generally better run.

Why do OOB families commute long distances to attend Deal and its feeders? What's the draw that justifies the effort?

Similarly, why do neighborhoods fight so hard to keep access to Deal when there could be other middle schools closer?

And why are close-by neighborhoods like Cleveland Park cut off from longtime access to Deal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I'm reading the materials from the May 16 meeting, and I have a perhaps dumb question .... Why do so many students want to go to Deal and Wilson? I ask because there's lots of discussion at the meeting and on these boards about trying to find some way to make other schools attractive to parents, so parents will want to choose other schools besides Deal and Wilson. What is it that makes Deal and Wilson so popular?

It's not just money, because per-pupil funding is the same across all schools. I recognize there's some economies of scale, where a large school like Deal can pool its per-pupil money to offer lots of benefits that might not be available to a less populated school. But if we suddenly adjusted boundaries to create an equal sized middle school in another part of town, I don't expect it would attract as many families as Deal.

I'm sure that for all the families living in the immediate Deal neighborhoods, it's largely about proximity. They want to go to the school that's closest.

I suspect that for some white families living EOTP, the desire for Deal may be a race preference.

I suppose lots of people will say its about higher PARCC scores. I guess that assumes that if your child goes to a higher PARCC score school, then your child will get smarter. Maybe it also assumes that a higher PARCC score school must be just generally better run.

Why do OOB families commute long distances to attend Deal and its feeders? What's the draw that justifies the effort?

Similarly, why do neighborhoods fight so hard to keep access to Deal when there could be other middle schools closer?

Critical mass of high achieving kids means they will have academic peers and enough clout to get a lot of what they want.

More outside funding due to more affluent families.

Track record over time.

Competent administration.

[Anonymous]

First, commuting distance doesn't really matter once your kids hit middle school. Both Deal and Wilson are accessible via Metro or bus and middle and high school children are old enough to commute alone.

Most students at Deal are working above grade level, in fact the majority of students are doing the advanced math track.

At Wilson, while there are kids who are not at grade level, students who are can find classes that challenge them by choosing advanced or AP classes. You get the advantages of a large school -- lots of extra-curriculars, school plays, sports, newspaper. The application schools can match some of the academics (but choices are more limited) but not the extras or facilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, I'm reading the materials from the May 16 meeting, and I have a perhaps dumb question .... Why do so many students want to go to Deal and Wilson? I ask because there's lots of discussion at the meeting and on these boards about trying to find some way to make other schools attractive to parents, so parents will want to choose other schools besides Deal and Wilson. What is it that makes Deal and Wilson so popular?

It's not just money, because per-pupil funding is the same across all schools. I recognize there's some economies of scale, where a large school like Deal can pool its per-pupil money to offer lots of benefits that might not be available to a less populated school. But if we suddenly adjusted boundaries to create an equal sized middle school in another part of town, I don't expect it would attract as many families as Deal.

I'm sure that for all the families living in the immediate Deal neighborhoods, it's largely about proximity. They want to go to the school that's closest.

I suspect that for some white families living EOTP, the desire for Deal may be a race preference.

I suppose lots of people will say its about higher PARCC scores. I guess that assumes that if your child goes to a higher PARCC score school, then your child will get smarter. Maybe it also assumes that a higher PARCC score school must be just generally better run.

Why do OOB families commute long distances to attend Deal and its feeders? What's the draw that justifies the effort?

Similarly, why do neighborhoods fight so hard to keep access to Deal when there could be other middle schools closer?

And why are close-by neighborhoods like Cleveland Park cut off from longtime access to Deal?

Because Cleveland park sucks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, I'm reading the materials from the May 16 meeting, and I have a perhaps dumb question .... Why do so many students want to go to Deal and Wilson? I ask because there's lots of discussion at the meeting and on these boards about trying to find some way to make other schools attractive to parents, so parents will want to choose other schools besides Deal and Wilson. What is it that makes Deal and Wilson so popular?

It's not just money, because per-pupil funding is the same across all schools. I recognize there's some economies of scale, where a large school like Deal can pool its per-pupil money to offer lots of benefits that might not be available to a less populated school. But if we suddenly adjusted boundaries to create an equal sized middle school in another part of town, I don't expect it would attract as many families as Deal.

I'm sure that for all the families living in the immediate Deal neighborhoods, it's largely about proximity. They want to go to the school that's closest.

I suspect that for some white families living EOTP, the desire for Deal may be a race preference.

I suppose lots of people will say its about higher PARCC scores. I guess that assumes that if your child goes to a higher PARCC score school, then your child will get smarter. Maybe it also assumes that a higher PARCC score school must be just generally better run.

Why do OOB families commute long distances to attend Deal and its feeders? What's the draw that justifies the effort?

Similarly, why do neighborhoods fight so hard to keep access to Deal when there could be other middle schools closer?

Critical mass of high achieving kids means they will have academic peers and enough clout to get a lot of what they want.

More outside funding due to more affluent families.

Track record over time.

Competent administration.

Big school, so more course and activity options.

Safe neighborhood with good metro access.

Doesn't kick you out if you struggle academically.

Suitable for families with children of differing interests and academoc abilities.

No application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 2-year plan would not work because it would be inequitable: only the Ward 3 kids would have the assured benefit of a 2-year school in the middle grades. No other DCPS school has that. A political non-starter for the rest of the City.

Do you realize that most of the kids who go to Wilson don't live in Ward 3?

That part is equitable. But the part about giving special treatment to Deal and Hardy (Ward 3 schools) is not at all equitable.

I've got news for you. Hardy is definitely not a "Ward 3 school"!

And the majority of kids at Hardy and Deal don't come from Ward 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the repeat poster is being obtuse at all. There is a real problem with the clarity of the language DCPS uses to justify its decisions.

Just look at the history of the boundary review and you will see that there are multiple reasons for refusing to create manageable boundaries for Wilson. If it were ONLY about overcrowding, then the boundary on Wilson's west side would end somewhere around Connecticut Avenue.

If it were ONLY about access and expectations, then the boundaries would change -- again, ending around Connecticut Avenue -- only after a certain cutoff date, starting sometime around the age of current third graders or so. But the Mayor's office only made a minimal effort at grandfathering and only made a tiny clip at the boundaries, which is effectively a meaningless clip because Wilson is not going to stop being overcrowded unless they try again at boundary review.

The MOST significant factor, imo, is race or "diversity" if you like, as the latter is a more milquetoast, politically acceptable term. Non-white kids very strongly need better access to a cohort of academically-achieving fellow students, who happen to be mostly white (or asian) in this country, and Wilson is the only non-test-in DCPS school that provides that experience. I do not think that this reason for our status quo at Wilson is in any way unreasonable or hard to understand, but it is surely also not a CLEARLY expressed reason.

I believe DCPS is afraid of the political backlash if it clearly expresses that "equity" means raising up students of color, and that this is admittedly not "fair" -- yes, they should admit "equity" is not fair -- to, predominantly, white kids. Because "equity" and "fairness" are two different things, at least as how those words are used within the sphere of public education professionals.

When one sees the situation on the streets of Tenleytown when Wilson lets out, how's that "equity" workin' out fer' ya'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, commuting distance doesn't really matter once your kids hit middle school. Both Deal and Wilson are accessible via Metro or bus and middle and high school children are old enough to commute alone.

Most students at Deal are working above grade level, in fact the majority of students are doing the advanced math track.

At Wilson, while there are kids who are not at grade level, students who are can find classes that challenge them by choosing advanced or AP classes. You get the advantages of a large school -- lots of extra-curriculars, school plays, sports, newspaper. The application schools can match some of the academics (but choices are more limited) but not the extras or facilities.

Really? More than half of Deal students are taking algebra in grade 7, geometry in grade 8, and are ready for algebra 2 in 9th? That seems really high.

For comparison, I have a child going to Hardy and the number is still much lower there. I believe it's <10% above grade level math (algebra in grade 7), and 20% on grade level in math (algebra in grade 8).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, I'm reading the materials from the May 16 meeting, and I have a perhaps dumb question .... Why do so many students want to go to Deal and Wilson? I ask because there's lots of discussion at the meeting and on these boards about trying to find some way to make other schools attractive to parents, so parents will want to choose other schools besides Deal and Wilson. What is it that makes Deal and Wilson so popular?

It's not just money, because per-pupil funding is the same across all schools. I recognize there's some economies of scale, where a large school like Deal can pool its per-pupil money to offer lots of benefits that might not be available to a less populated school. But if we suddenly adjusted boundaries to create an equal sized middle school in another part of town, I don't expect it would attract as many families as Deal.

I'm sure that for all the families living in the immediate Deal neighborhoods, it's largely about proximity. They want to go to the school that's closest.

I suspect that for some white families living EOTP, the desire for Deal may be a race preference.

I suppose lots of people will say its about higher PARCC scores. I guess that assumes that if your child goes to a higher PARCC score school, then your child will get smarter. Maybe it also assumes that a higher PARCC score school must be just generally better run.

Why do OOB families commute long distances to attend Deal and its feeders? What's the draw that justifies the effort?

Similarly, why do neighborhoods fight so hard to keep access to Deal when there could be other middle schools closer?

And why are close-by neighborhoods like Cleveland Park cut off from longtime access to Deal?

Because Cleveland park sucks?

That comment adds nothing to this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, commuting distance doesn't really matter once your kids hit middle school. Both Deal and Wilson are accessible via Metro or bus and middle and high school children are old enough to commute alone.

Most students at Deal are working above grade level, in fact the majority of students are doing the advanced math track.

At Wilson, while there are kids who are not at grade level, students who are can find classes that challenge them by choosing advanced or AP classes. You get the advantages of a large school -- lots of extra-curriculars, school plays, sports, newspaper. The application schools can match some of the academics (but choices are more limited) but not the extras or facilities.

Really? More than half of Deal students are taking algebra in grade 7, geometry in grade 8, and are ready for algebra 2 in 9th? That seems really high.

For comparison, I have a child going to Hardy and the number is still much lower there. I believe it's <10% above grade level math (algebra in grade 7), and 20% on grade level in math (algebra in grade 8).

Look at the detailed PARCC score spreadsheets - you can see how many students in each grade are taking which math test.