How are you able to afford the DC area - from an out-of-towner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another out of town lurker here with a prospect to relocate. Many of you seemed to earn a bundle in the 90s before the housing boom. I was still in high school then. How do people in their early 30s and younger manage in DC?

I am 39 but I did not make a bundle in the 90s. HA! That makes me laugh! I was an impoverished Hill staffer living in shared housing. I think my starting salary was $22K. Yep, it was. That was '97, with a Master's degree, for which I then had to pay student loans!

And then we bought at the top of the market in '04, right after we got married, so yeah, no luck there either.

Just guerilla-style frugality and Irish stubbornness.

haha - I like you. I made $25K as a Hill staffer at my first job - I thought I was doing great!

We're 35 with a school-aged child and make probably $135K (my salary has varied a little this year - PT job had reduced hours for the summer months due to cutbacks). Somehow, we manage. Is our savings account as big as it should be? No, but we manage to pay our bills and put money away for retirement and not have to live like paupers. We don't get to live close in (nor do we need to, as neither of our jobs is DC-based), but we live in a nice community that has walkable amenities and good schools where we purchased a 2200 sf home for $450K. We were able to make a down payment on this home and do a few renovations because we bought a VERY tiny TH in late-2003 after we married that we sold for $100K profit last year. We actually were VERY close to moving to one of the cities everyone likes to throw out there as a hot (and less expensive) market - turns out there were no jobs available for my husband there at the time. He's a security/defense contractor (ex-military) and his particular job just isn't readily available outside of this area. He loves what he does. Neither one of us will likely ever make the big bucks (he JUST broke 6-figures this year), but we know that this is the town we need to be in, no matter how attractive lowering COL might be. Our reason for even looking at the other city was to be closer to his family - having to spend money on airfare to visit family pretty much rules out actual vacations for us, which we had hoped to alleviate, but such is life.

Look, if OP makes a good living where they are, I wouldn't suggest moving here. But it isn't horrible to live here, either, even on our "modest" salary. We're right around the median income in Fairfax County, and we live a very average middle income life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another out of town lurker here with a prospect to relocate. Many of you seemed to earn a bundle in the 90s before the housing boom. I was still in high school then. How do people in their early 30s and younger manage in DC?

I am 39 but I did not make a bundle in the 90s. HA! That makes me laugh! I was an impoverished Hill staffer living in shared housing. I think my starting salary was $22K. Yep, it was. That was '97, with a Master's degree, for which I then had to pay student loans!

And then we bought at the top of the market in '04, right after we got married, so yeah, no luck there either.

Just guerilla-style frugality and Irish stubbornness.

haha - I like you. I made $25K as a Hill staffer at my first job - I thought I was doing great!

We're 35 with a school-aged child and make probably $135K (my salary has varied a little this year - PT job had reduced hours for the summer months due to cutbacks). Somehow, we manage. Is our savings account as big as it should be? No, but we manage to pay our bills and put money away for retirement and not have to live like paupers. We don't get to live close in (nor do we need to, as neither of our jobs is DC-based), but we live in a nice community that has walkable amenities and good schools where we purchased a 2200 sf home for $450K. We were able to make a down payment on this home and do a few renovations because we bought a VERY tiny TH in late-2003 after we married that we sold for $100K profit last year. We actually were VERY close to moving to one of the cities everyone likes to throw out there as a hot (and less expensive) market - turns out there were no jobs available for my husband there at the time. He's a security/defense contractor (ex-military) and his particular job just isn't readily available outside of this area. He loves what he does. Neither one of us will likely ever make the big bucks (he JUST broke 6-figures this year), but we know that this is the town we need to be in, no matter how attractive lowering COL might be. Our reason for even looking at the other city was to be closer to his family - having to spend money on airfare to visit family pretty much rules out actual vacations for us, which we had hoped to alleviate, but such is life.

Look, if OP makes a good living where they are, I wouldn't suggest moving here. But it isn't horrible to live here, either, even on our "modest" salary. We're right around the median income in Fairfax County, and we live a very average middle income life.

PP back! Thanks! I think I would have been jealous of you with your $25K salary! Good negotiating!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bought a long time ago when our house was "only" $400K.

Yes, we bought at $350K. House is now worth $750K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another out of town lurker here with a prospect to relocate. Many of you seemed to earn a bundle in the 90s before the housing boom. I was still in high school then. How do people in their early 30s and younger manage in DC?

I am 39 but I did not make a bundle in the 90s. HA! That makes me laugh! I was an impoverished Hill staffer living in shared housing. I think my starting salary was $22K. Yep, it was. That was '97, with a Master's degree, for which I then had to pay student loans!

And then we bought at the top of the market in '04, right after we got married, so yeah, no luck there either.

Just guerilla-style frugality and Irish stubbornness.

haha - I like you. I made $25K as a Hill staffer at my first job - I thought I was doing great!

We're 35 with a school-aged child and make probably $135K (my salary has varied a little this year - PT job had reduced hours for the summer months due to cutbacks). Somehow, we manage. Is our savings account as big as it should be? No, but we manage to pay our bills and put money away for retirement and not have to live like paupers. We don't get to live close in (nor do we need to, as neither of our jobs is DC-based), but we live in a nice community that has walkable amenities and good schools where we purchased a 2200 sf home for $450K. We were able to make a down payment on this home and do a few renovations because we bought a VERY tiny TH in late-2003 after we married that we sold for $100K profit last year. We actually were VERY close to moving to one of the cities everyone likes to throw out there as a hot (and less expensive) market - turns out there were no jobs available for my husband there at the time. He's a security/defense contractor (ex-military) and his particular job just isn't readily available outside of this area. He loves what he does. Neither one of us will likely ever make the big bucks (he JUST broke 6-figures this year), but we know that this is the town we need to be in, no matter how attractive lowering COL might be. Our reason for even looking at the other city was to be closer to his family - having to spend money on airfare to visit family pretty much rules out actual vacations for us, which we had hoped to alleviate, but such is life.

Look, if OP makes a good living where they are, I wouldn't suggest moving here. But it isn't horrible to live here, either, even on our "modest" salary. We're right around the median income in Fairfax County, and we live a very average middle income life.

My first year in DC, I was an AmeriCorps VISTA volunteer. I made a stipend of $750/month. Between that and a retail job a few hours a week, I managed to scrape by. It wasn't pretty, but I did get to live in a fun DC neighborhood and meet interesting people. When I got my first "real" job after I finished my AmeriCorps service, I felt like a millionaire because I was making $35K!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
PP back! Thanks! I think I would have been jealous of you with your $25K salary! Good negotiating!

keep in mind that I started a couple years after you most likely - and I worked for a committee. They paid better. I didn't really negotiate - I knew that was more than most member offices were paying at the time, so I took it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in the Midwest. $330,000, ten year old house with 2,600 square feet and a nice back yard. The other day may spouse and I were looking at the DC area cost of living because a recruiter called me about a job opportunity. So I went on realtor.com to look at houses. OMG, in Maryland a house built in 1951 for over $700,000 that looks like it needs work!

Let's say I earn $125,000 and the DC area pays more so I will get $140,000 or slightly more. After taxes, there is no way that increase makes up anywhere near the cost of living difference. Are most of you lawyers, lobbyists, or ex-military that join defense contractors? How can you afford that kind of housing unless you have a job like that or an inheritance? We figured out that if we moved, there would be no money left to do anything for fun. In fact, we figured out that it would cost less to stay in the Midwest and fly to DC 4 or 5 times a year to do things than move there. Culture is great, but if you can't afford to do anything, what good does it do to be near it?

OP - Have not read the 5 pages of posts but there are a ton of people. many of whom hang out here, who make that kind of money or less and are able to afford living here. Yes, housing is more $$ BUT when you sell you see it back in spades - usually. Housing in teh midwest is a lot less because people make less there and because you don't see the same kind of appreciation on homes. I owned a home in the Denver area for 12 yrs, sold it for just about what I bought it for. In DC, had you purchased a home 12 yrs ago and try to sell it today - you just about double your money - if not more!

What you need to do is focus on areas outside the beltway - like most people who live here. If you are looking in MD, focus on areas like Rockville, Olney, Silver Spring. This is a great area to live in, ignore the nasty people on this board as they don't represent the majority of people who live and work in the DC area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone done a national job search lately? What were your offers, in what field, and how did they relate to COL?

I ask because a friend in Ohio just did. She's well known in her field, earned $175K in her last job and expected there to be a bigger difference between coastal and inland offers, but the spread was less than $30K. She turned down the DC offer because the COL/QOL was just not there.

That's true, but if you were doing it the other way around. Going from your job here in DC to somewhere in the midwest, your paycut would likely be more than that $30K.

You know who has a great gig? Those folks who started out at their jobs in DC and then were able to move to cheaper parts of the country, telecommute, and keep their DC salary! I'd hate telecommuting 100% of the time but I have to think that the money is sweet!

YES - I have a friend who did this. She works for the government and her agency ran out of space and encouraged people to do this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're doing OK. We make about 150K, own a house, drive two very old cars, and live very simply. We're saving at least 25 percent of household income. One kid, no cable TV...

Yeah, but you're DINK's. Try having a kid or two - this place starts to wear on you a bit after that. It did for me, anyway.

Huh?

What do you mean, huh? Dual income, no kids. Easy to live a nice life here and save 25% of your income if you don't have children. What, exactly, was unclear about that?

Are you stupid??? rhe original person you quoted said they have ONE KID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone done a national job search lately? What were your offers, in what field, and how did they relate to COL?

I ask because a friend in Ohio just did. She's well known in her field, earned $175K in her last job and expected there to be a bigger difference between coastal and inland offers, but the spread was less than $30K. She turned down the DC offer because the COL/QOL was just not there.

That's true, but if you were doing it the other way around. Going from your job here in DC to somewhere in the midwest, your paycut would likely be more than that $30K.

You know who has a great gig? Those folks who started out at their jobs in DC and then were able to move to cheaper parts of the country, telecommute, and keep their DC salary! I'd hate telecommuting 100% of the time but I have to think that the money is sweet!

YES - I have a friend who did this. She works for the government and her agency ran out of space and encouraged people to do this!

I have a friend who did this too! Makes DC consultant money but lives in MISSOURI! He is like King Midas out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?

Like several of the other posters, I grew up here (in a NoVA suburb), so the crazy COL always seemed normal to me. I moved into DC after college and lived the dirt poor nonprofit worker lifestyle. I love living in the city, and my now-DH and I decided early on that it was worth the trade offs. He makes about $125K. I was only making about $45K (again, nonprofit), and I became a SAHM after we had a child. You really have to know what sort of trade offs you are willing to make? We live in a 2 bedroom, 1,000 SF condo. We don't have a yard, but on the other hand there are tons of kids and parks around us, and with less than a 5 minute walk to the metro (and we only have 1 car), we pretty much consider the whole city to be our backyard. Even without the metro we can walk to the zoo, library, grocery shopping, 5 or 6 playgrounds and parks, and about 200 restaurants. Our condo is not fancy and our local school is average, but we love our fun, walkable neighborhood, and DS spends his days having fun at museums, parks, the zoo, etc. By DC standards we don't make a lot of money, but we love our lifestyle.

What is comes down to, OP, is what sort of lifestyle do you and your family want? What are your non-negotiables? What are you willing to sacrifice?

Btw, don't listen to the snarkers who hate living here. No place is perfect of course, but DC is a great place to live if you are looking for that lifestyle.

Sounds nice, but still waiting for you to name something we don't have, and for a quarter of the price. The salary bump is not close to the differential. I would understand if our HHI were going to quadruple, or even double, but it won't, so I am genuinely trying to understand what makes this worthwhile. Some of you must be in jobs that simply don't exist, or not in adequate numbers, elsewhere - but if you're not a wonk or a lobbyist, why?

Okay, so now OP is getting snarky!!

OP - I grew up in the midwest. I'm in my mid-30s recently married and no kids (yet). I make a lot of money, I've travelled a ton over the past 15 years, have been able to eat at amazing restaurants, drink at cool bars, go to museums, talks, parks, and have a lot of really awesome vacation spots within driving distance. On top of that, I've been able to meet really interesting people from a variety of places and in a variety of careers and have an amazingly cool and diverse group of friends. In contrast, my friends who stayed in the midwest have all been married 10 years, are friends with the same people we went to high school with, haven't seen the world, all have the same type of job/are stay at home moms, have kids in elementary school, don't really do anything on the weekends, and are quite frankly boring (and many of them have told me that they are bored). So despite the high cost of living here, I feel that I live a great life in DC that I could not get in the boring midwest.

As for salaries, most people in DC are NOT "wonks" as you say or lobbyists. Yes, we have an overabundence of lawyers and consultants here, but we also have a lot of people who get crappy staffer, non-profit or Fed salaries, too.

LMAO. Since you're on DCUM, I'm assuming you want children one day pp. When your first DC turns 1, don't forget to come back and tell us how exciting your life is then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're doing OK. We make about 150K, own a house, drive two very old cars, and live very simply. We're saving at least 25 percent of household income. One kid, no cable TV...

Yeah, but you're DINK's. Try having a kid or two - this place starts to wear on you a bit after that. It did for me, anyway.

Huh?

What do you mean, huh? Dual income, no kids. Easy to live a nice life here and save 25% of your income if you don't have children. What, exactly, was unclear about that?

Maybe the fact that the poster clearly stated she already has a child.

Okay, so clearly I misread that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?

Like several of the other posters, I grew up here (in a NoVA suburb), so the crazy COL always seemed normal to me. I moved into DC after college and lived the dirt poor nonprofit worker lifestyle. I love living in the city, and my now-DH and I decided early on that it was worth the trade offs. He makes about $125K. I was only making about $45K (again, nonprofit), and I became a SAHM after we had a child. You really have to know what sort of trade offs you are willing to make? We live in a 2 bedroom, 1,000 SF condo. We don't have a yard, but on the other hand there are tons of kids and parks around us, and with less than a 5 minute walk to the metro (and we only have 1 car), we pretty much consider the whole city to be our backyard. Even without the metro we can walk to the zoo, library, grocery shopping, 5 or 6 playgrounds and parks, and about 200 restaurants. Our condo is not fancy and our local school is average, but we love our fun, walkable neighborhood, and DS spends his days having fun at museums, parks, the zoo, etc. By DC standards we don't make a lot of money, but we love our lifestyle.

What is comes down to, OP, is what sort of lifestyle do you and your family want? What are your non-negotiables? What are you willing to sacrifice?

Btw, don't listen to the snarkers who hate living here. No place is perfect of course, but DC is a great place to live if you are looking for that lifestyle.

Sounds nice, but still waiting for you to name something we don't have, and for a quarter of the price. The salary bump is not close to the differential. I would understand if our HHI were going to quadruple, or even double, but it won't, so I am genuinely trying to understand what makes this worthwhile. Some of you must be in jobs that simply don't exist, or not in adequate numbers, elsewhere - but if you're not a wonk or a lobbyist, why?

Okay, so now OP is getting snarky!!

OP - I grew up in the midwest. I'm in my mid-30s recently married and no kids (yet). I make a lot of money, I've travelled a ton over the past 15 years, have been able to eat at amazing restaurants, drink at cool bars, go to museums, talks, parks, and have a lot of really awesome vacation spots within driving distance. On top of that, I've been able to meet really interesting people from a variety of places and in a variety of careers and have an amazingly cool and diverse group of friends. In contrast, my friends who stayed in the midwest have all been married 10 years, are friends with the same people we went to high school with, haven't seen the world, all have the same type of job/are stay at home moms, have kids in elementary school, don't really do anything on the weekends, and are quite frankly boring (and many of them have told me that they are bored). So despite the high cost of living here, I feel that I live a great life in DC that I could not get in the boring midwest.

As for salaries, most people in DC are NOT "wonks" as you say or lobbyists. Yes, we have an overabundence of lawyers and consultants here, but we also have a lot of people who get crappy staffer, non-profit or Fed salaries, too.

LMAO. Since you're on DCUM, I'm assuming you want children one day pp. When your first DC turns 1, don't forget to come back and tell us how exciting your life is then.

My kid is 2. We're constantly doing exciting activities around the city, visiting museums, and having a great time. So yes, it's possible to have a kid and take advantage of the city and *gasp* even have an exciting life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people make well into the six figures. A typical house in Arlington with 3 bedrooms and 2 baths (one of which is in the basement) will be around $700k.
I can assure you that your quality of life is MUCH better in the midwest.

Commute and hours worked are better. Your cultural opportunities and opportunities to be friends with a diverse, very intelligent, very successful group of people? Lower QOL in the midwest.

Do you actually believe this? If so, you are fucking clueless. Guess what? There is diversity and culture in Midwestern cities. Yes, it's true! Take it from someone who spent the bulk of the first 30 years of their life in one of those cities. Good grief - the coasts do not have a lock on diversity, intelligence, culture, or success. Asinine bullshit like this is why some us can't stand many, many people we meet here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you interested in living in the city itself or a suburb?

Like several of the other posters, I grew up here (in a NoVA suburb), so the crazy COL always seemed normal to me. I moved into DC after college and lived the dirt poor nonprofit worker lifestyle. I love living in the city, and my now-DH and I decided early on that it was worth the trade offs. He makes about $125K. I was only making about $45K (again, nonprofit), and I became a SAHM after we had a child. You really have to know what sort of trade offs you are willing to make? We live in a 2 bedroom, 1,000 SF condo. We don't have a yard, but on the other hand there are tons of kids and parks around us, and with less than a 5 minute walk to the metro (and we only have 1 car), we pretty much consider the whole city to be our backyard. Even without the metro we can walk to the zoo, library, grocery shopping, 5 or 6 playgrounds and parks, and about 200 restaurants. Our condo is not fancy and our local school is average, but we love our fun, walkable neighborhood, and DS spends his days having fun at museums, parks, the zoo, etc. By DC standards we don't make a lot of money, but we love our lifestyle.

What is comes down to, OP, is what sort of lifestyle do you and your family want? What are your non-negotiables? What are you willing to sacrifice?

Btw, don't listen to the snarkers who hate living here. No place is perfect of course, but DC is a great place to live if you are looking for that lifestyle.

Sounds nice, but still waiting for you to name something we don't have, and for a quarter of the price. The salary bump is not close to the differential. I would understand if our HHI were going to quadruple, or even double, but it won't, so I am genuinely trying to understand what makes this worthwhile. Some of you must be in jobs that simply don't exist, or not in adequate numbers, elsewhere - but if you're not a wonk or a lobbyist, why?

Okay, so now OP is getting snarky!!

OP - I grew up in the midwest. I'm in my mid-30s recently married and no kids (yet). I make a lot of money, I've travelled a ton over the past 15 years, have been able to eat at amazing restaurants, drink at cool bars, go to museums, talks, parks, and have a lot of really awesome vacation spots within driving distance. On top of that, I've been able to meet really interesting people from a variety of places and in a variety of careers and have an amazingly cool and diverse group of friends. In contrast, my friends who stayed in the midwest have all been married 10 years, are friends with the same people we went to high school with, haven't seen the world, all have the same type of job/are stay at home moms, have kids in elementary school, don't really do anything on the weekends, and are quite frankly boring (and many of them have told me that they are bored). So despite the high cost of living here, I feel that I live a great life in DC that I could not get in the boring midwest.

As for salaries, most people in DC are NOT "wonks" as you say or lobbyists. Yes, we have an overabundence of lawyers and consultants here, but we also have a lot of people who get crappy staffer, non-profit or Fed salaries, too.

LMAO. Since you're on DCUM, I'm assuming you want children one day pp. When your first DC turns 1, don't forget to come back and tell us how exciting your life is then.

My kid is 2. We're constantly doing exciting activities around the city, visiting museums, and having a great time. So yes, it's possible to have a kid and take advantage of the city and *gasp* even have an exciting life.

Eh, your kid is 2. When your kids reach elementary school, your free time will revolve around their schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved here last year from NYC and love it. Our HHI is about 300K give or take. We find the cost of living here much better than NYC. We will spend the same as we did for our apartment to own a house here in a nice neighborhood in DC.

I am thinking of moving, also still in NYC, where did you move that you like it