Do Boy Scouts and Liberals Mix?

[Anonymous]

disagreeing with BSA over something as minor as this just is not an important enough of an issue for me to deny my child the otherwise great benefits he gets from the BSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 11 year old nephew absolutely loves Boy Scouts. His mom is Unitarian and his dad is an agnostic. He has two gay uncles. It has become a big time commitment for my nephew and his parents and my sister and BIL would not mind if my nephew quit. But he loves it. And they love and support him. My nephew is outspokanely gay friendly, so I don't know when his views will clash with the Boy Scouts biases.

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey PP, even the gay man with a son in the troop wouldn't be allowed.

But more importantly, what makes you think that pedophiles cannot be married and identify as straight? There was a pedophile in my neighborhood when I was a kid who was all the kids' best friend. He had a wife and two toddler daughters. He would take groups of kids to the pool or other outings. And he wound up convicted of multiple counts of child molestation.

I was suspicious of him from the start but any parent who relied on his being married to a woman and having two kids was making a mistake.

Here's a Boy scout perve who people let off the hook now married:
http://www.postregister.com/scouts_honor/part5.php

The cover-up and LDS VIP members after the reporter:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/expose/expose_2007/episode215/essay.html

Zuckerman's partner is/was the mayor of Portland [Adams].

Yes-boy Scouts is creepy and a normal guy who just happened to be gay reported the story.

nothing in those links changes my mind that gay scoutmasters is a bad idea.

Sorry, but you are just really stupid. The VAST majority of sexual crimes are committed by hetero men NOT gays. Perhaps you are assuming all gay men are like priests who abuse the little boys in their congregations? Those priests aren't gay; they're sexual deviants. I'm guessing you think gays are de facto sexual deviants, so perhaps this distinction is lost on you. You are gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:disagreeing with BSA over something as minor as this just is not an important enough of an issue for me to deny my child the otherwise great benefits he gets from the BSA.

It's minor to YOU. Civil rights is an issue minor to YOU. But please don't call yourself a supporter of gay rights--I'm guessing you don't, but if you do, please stop. Because you are NOT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:disagreeing with BSA over something as minor as this just is not an important enough of an issue for me to deny my child the otherwise great benefits he gets from the BSA.

You cannot possibly think that tolerance, civil rights, and respect for others is minor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:disagreeing with BSA over something as minor as this just is not an important enough of an issue for me to deny my child the otherwise great benefits he gets from the BSA.

You cannot possibly think that tolerance, civil rights, and respect for others is minor.

I don't think gay issues are a civil rights issue. Sorry, that is my opinion. If the BSA discriminated against minorities or were not accepting to the disabled or encouraged bullying or anything of that nature I would be outraged. But whether or not they allow gay scoutmasters is not something I would ever concern myself with or lose any sleep over. I tend to think of sexuality as a private matter regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have tremendous respect for you and what you're trying to do. I wish my local chapter functioned with the same openness, because I do think that BSA is the "gold standard" when it comes to mixing outdoors learning and community service principles in a structured kids organization. It beats Girl Scouts, and Camp Fire kids by a mile.

My local troop is an interesting mix of people. I feel certain that at least some of them (perhaps most?) are "gay-friendly," and probably resent the BSA's policies on gays. But I think some of the parents are anti-gay. These are educated but religious people who are generally tolerant of others, but feel firmly that homosexuality is a sin. Although I disagree with that position, I can respect it in the context of thinking human beings who are also conscious of the fact that that is "their" opinion, and don't feel a need to try to save or bash gay people.

I think my son would really like scouting. And there are some BS principles that I would very much like him to learn. I've wondered in the past whether, with the right local troop, I could overlook the national organization's policies. I think if I were on Capitol Hill, where the troop openly discusses and objects to BSA's policy, I could. But my local troop seems to take the approach of quietly abiding by the anti-gay policies. I don't think they'd rat out a suspected gay parent or troop leader... I don't think they're anti-gay. But the fact that they're going along with scouting and just pretending the policy doesn't exist -- well, perhaps that isn't good enough for me. My son will not be joining BSA. And it's a shame. It's a great organization in many ways.

[b]90% of winning is just showing up. You'd be amazed at how ready adults are to follow the lead of someone like you. If your kid wants to join the local troop, let him join. Be an active, involved adult volunteer. Serve for a while, then when you suggest the troop write a letter to Nation BSA HQ urging a change in policy, and suggest the troop post that letter on its website, and suggest the troops adults feel free to communicate your troops position with other troops' adult leaders, your voice will have a big impact.

Or not. But I do want to say you are right: Scouting is a great experience for boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Hey, Crazy:
1) I posted the post you quoted. I had just minutes before read the entire thread, so I'm not who you think I am. I did in fact post three times in a row, because this board doesn't have a "multi-quote" function, so it's a pain to quote multiple posts at once. The third of my three posts said that I had just read the thread recently, so if you noticed that I posted multiple times quickly, you should have noticed that. It also said that I found the statements about the Cap Hill troop very convincing.
2) I'm not mischaracterizing anything. I understand your argument; it's not the same one as made by the person I quoted. (Unless that person was you, which would leave me really confused.) The person I quoted very clearly equated intolerance of intolerance with intolerance of homosexuals and atheists/agnostics. Are you supporting that position?
3) I hate the anonymity on this board and I understand some confusion, but I don't know why you seem to have trouble understanding that at any time you may be interacting with multiple people with similar views.

Why the ad hominem attacks? Are you the same poster who posted "cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo" to somebody else's post? You seem like a real jerk.

Or maybe you're age 12?

The real question is: Do you really think you are winning any support for gay rights in the Boy Scouts this way? Because at this point I'm tempted to sign DS up and work from inside (because we're pro-gay rights) just to piss you off.

[Anonymous]

This thread needs to die. Unfortunately, it's a few ardent gay rights supporters who are making it so ugly. I say "unfortunately" because we're all for gay BS troop leaders. But it's reached the point of no return, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 11 year old nephew absolutely loves Boy Scouts. His mom is Unitarian and his dad is an agnostic. He has two gay uncles. It has become a big time commitment for my nephew and his parents and my sister and BIL would not mind if my nephew quit. But he loves it. And they love and support him. My nephew is outspokanely gay friendly, so I don't know when his views will clash with the Boy Scouts biases.

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

I'm imaging the "cuckoo" poster's head exploding in rage and fury as she types this. Not a pretty sight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 11 year old nephew absolutely loves Boy Scouts. His mom is Unitarian and his dad is an agnostic. He has two gay uncles. It has become a big time commitment for my nephew and his parents and my sister and BIL would not mind if my nephew quit. But he loves it. And they love and support him. My nephew is outspokanely gay friendly, so I don't know when his views will clash with the Boy Scouts biases.

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

I'm imaging the "cuckoo" poster's head exploding in rage and fury as she types this. Not a pretty sight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:disagreeing with BSA over something as minor as this just is not an important enough of an issue for me to deny my child the otherwise great benefits he gets from the BSA.

You cannot possibly think that tolerance, civil rights, and respect for others is minor.

I don't think gay issues are a civil rights issue. Sorry, that is my opinion. If the BSA discriminated against minorities or were not accepting to the disabled or encouraged bullying or anything of that nature I would be outraged. But whether or not they allow gay scoutmasters is not something I would ever concern myself with or lose any sleep over. I tend to think of sexuality as a private matter regardless.

Clearly the Boy Scouts of America do not share your philosophy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why the ad hominem attacks?

Please. Assuming you are the person to whom I was responding, you continued this irrational belief that you were responding to only one person, assumed that I was that person, and simultaneously came at me rather aggressively while failing even to read my statements. "Crazy" isn't an ad hominem attack - I wasn't suggesting that you are literally crazy, but that you are being crazy in this thread.

Anonymous wrote:Are you the same poster who posted "cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo" to somebody else's post?

No. Again, you seem to find it hard to believe that there are multiple people posting in this thread.

Anonymous wrote:You seem like a real jerk.

Or maybe you're age 12?

Yeah...you might want to tighten up your act, Don Rickles.

Anonymous wrote:Because at this point I'm tempted to sign DS up and work from inside (because we're pro-gay rights) just to piss you off.

Again, I've said that I found that position as presented in this thread pretty convincing, so that wouldn't piss me off at all. You really need: 1) to read more carefully; and 2) to stop thinking that you're one of only two posters in each thread.

That said, this thread is yet more evidence of the need for us all to have consistent screen names, so this kind of confusion would be less likely.

[Anonymous]

Local troops vary a lot, but certainly the Boy Scouts have provided wonderful growth opportunities to many, in particular in the inner city and/or for fatherless boys. More recently the national organization has gotten very political and very conservative, but, as Troop 500 shows, it doesn't have to be that way for your troop. You might want to read this hilarious account of a troop in NY that stood up to HQ: http://www.amazon.com/Scouts-Honor-Fathers-Unlikely-Foray/dp/0151005923

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Please. Assuming you are the person to whom I was responding, you continued this irrational belief that you were responding to only one person, assumed that I was that person, and simultaneously came at me rather aggressively while failing even to read my statements. "Crazy" isn't an ad hominem attack - I wasn't suggesting that you are literally crazy, but that you are being crazy in this thread.

WTF?