Why are the field trips so underwhelming?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah all the PTA can do is throw money at you, maybe (not if you’re at a title 1 school). Requesting the field trip, getting approval, communicating with the venue, getting permission slips, taking the health training for the kids with medical issues who go, because if a kid with epilepsy or diabetes is on your trip you have to be trained to assist them, and they will always be on the trip, putting the lunch orders in with the cafeteria and picking them up, arranging for chaperones, creating student groups, getting there, keeping track of the kids, and getting back- this is SO MUCH WORK for often maybe 2 hours at the actual destination. Forgive us if we don’t choose to add this to our plates as often as you think you’re entitled to expect.

Why couldn’t room moms do a fair amount of this? Not all but a lot of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah all the PTA can do is throw money at you, maybe (not if you’re at a title 1 school). Requesting the field trip, getting approval, communicating with the venue, getting permission slips, taking the health training for the kids with medical issues who go, because if a kid with epilepsy or diabetes is on your trip you have to be trained to assist them, and they will always be on the trip, putting the lunch orders in with the cafeteria and picking them up, arranging for chaperones, creating student groups, getting there, keeping track of the kids, and getting back- this is SO MUCH WORK for often maybe 2 hours at the actual destination. Forgive us if we don’t choose to add this to our plates as often as you think you’re entitled to expect.

Who's doing all the planning for the Lewis program trips? If your experience is the norm, then there's no way the teacher over there is planning dozens of field trips every year by herself. And as far as I know I'm fairly certain she is the sole teacher in the program. Have they centralized all the paperwork to admin? Seems like the process is inconsistent across FCPS.

I have no idea what that program is but there’s often program coordinators for special academic programs (like IB- there’d always an IB coordinator at IB schools) whose job it is to do stuff like that and they don’t teach 5 classes like other classroom teachers. My school has an activities coordinator who plans all the trips for the senior class but the rest of us have to run all our field trip planning that I described through… they don’t do the actual planning , they just put in the bus request and log the field trip with the country transportation department.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah all the PTA can do is throw money at you, maybe (not if you’re at a title 1 school). Requesting the field trip, getting approval, communicating with the venue, getting permission slips, taking the health training for the kids with medical issues who go, because if a kid with epilepsy or diabetes is on your trip you have to be trained to assist them, and they will always be on the trip, putting the lunch orders in with the cafeteria and picking them up, arranging for chaperones, creating student groups, getting there, keeping track of the kids, and getting back- this is SO MUCH WORK for often maybe 2 hours at the actual destination. Forgive us if we don’t choose to add this to our plates as often as you think you’re entitled to expect.

Why couldn’t room moms do a fair amount of this? Not all but a lot of it.

I’m a high school teacher, what the hell is a room mom 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are times I feel like that person…

Back in the 80’s and 90’s we had maybe one field trip a year and that was it. I don’t remember any in MS or HS. Field trips are not a necessity, they can be fun and educational but they are not mandatory.

Plenty of schools don’t have enough money to fund field trips and they don’t have PTAs that can run fund raising to provide field trips and after school activities. The PTA cannot do the paperwork associated with the field trip, that paperwork ends up being the backbone for any liability that might arise from the trip. Teachers are over worked as it is, adding on extra things is a lot. Kids behavior has gone downhill which makes field trips even more of a nightmare, do you think it is fun to watch the kids who are nightmares at school at a museum? Or Cox farm? Or any other location?

If the PTA does everything else, you can do the goddamn paperwork.

Way to completely ignore the multiple posters who perfectly articulated what falls on the teacher. The bulk of the work CAN’T be done by the PTA.

But let’s be honest here: you don’t care. Your cursing above illustrates that quite well. Teachers should simply provide for you, shouldn’t they?

What several are reacting to is the notion that just because teachers have done some of these prices in the past that they MUST be the only ones to do them. While the health training for sure needs done the teacher I don’t understand why a room mom can’t create a draft of all the forms needed for the teacher so she just needs to hit submit, create the permission slip forms for the teacher to hand out and keep a running list for her of who has returned them, do the logistics calls with the venue and - if the principal will allow - logistics calls with the bus transport end. It seems like a refusal to consider how the process could be reworked to outsource more of the work to volunteers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are times I feel like that person…

Back in the 80’s and 90’s we had maybe one field trip a year and that was it. I don’t remember any in MS or HS. Field trips are not a necessity, they can be fun and educational but they are not mandatory.

Plenty of schools don’t have enough money to fund field trips and they don’t have PTAs that can run fund raising to provide field trips and after school activities. The PTA cannot do the paperwork associated with the field trip, that paperwork ends up being the backbone for any liability that might arise from the trip. Teachers are over worked as it is, adding on extra things is a lot. Kids behavior has gone downhill which makes field trips even more of a nightmare, do you think it is fun to watch the kids who are nightmares at school at a museum? Or Cox farm? Or any other location?

If the PTA does everything else, you can do the goddamn paperwork.

Way to completely ignore the multiple posters who perfectly articulated what falls on the teacher. The bulk of the work CAN’T be done by the PTA.

But let’s be honest here: you don’t care. Your cursing above illustrates that quite well. Teachers should simply provide for you, shouldn’t they?

What several are reacting to is the notion that just because teachers have done some of these prices in the past that they MUST be the only ones to do them. While the health training for sure needs done the teacher I don’t understand why a room mom can’t create a draft of all the forms needed for the teacher so she just needs to hit submit, create the permission slip forms for the teacher to hand out and keep a running list for her of who has returned them, do the logistics calls with the venue and - if the principal will allow - logistics calls with the bus transport end. It seems like a refusal to consider how the process could be reworked to outsource more of the work to volunteers.

Room moms are a thing of the past. Lots of elementary schools don’t use them anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah all the PTA can do is throw money at you, maybe (not if you’re at a title 1 school). Requesting the field trip, getting approval, communicating with the venue, getting permission slips, taking the health training for the kids with medical issues who go, because if a kid with epilepsy or diabetes is on your trip you have to be trained to assist them, and they will always be on the trip, putting the lunch orders in with the cafeteria and picking them up, arranging for chaperones, creating student groups, getting there, keeping track of the kids, and getting back- this is SO MUCH WORK for often maybe 2 hours at the actual destination. Forgive us if we don’t choose to add this to our plates as often as you think you’re entitled to expect.

Why couldn’t room moms do a fair amount of this? Not all but a lot of it.

Moms are not County employees and do not fill the legal requirements. If they make a mistake, the liability on the school is massive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah all the PTA can do is throw money at you, maybe (not if you’re at a title 1 school). Requesting the field trip, getting approval, communicating with the venue, getting permission slips, taking the health training for the kids with medical issues who go, because if a kid with epilepsy or diabetes is on your trip you have to be trained to assist them, and they will always be on the trip, putting the lunch orders in with the cafeteria and picking them up, arranging for chaperones, creating student groups, getting there, keeping track of the kids, and getting back- this is SO MUCH WORK for often maybe 2 hours at the actual destination. Forgive us if we don’t choose to add this to our plates as often as you think you’re entitled to expect.

Why couldn’t room moms do a fair amount of this? Not all but a lot of it.

Moms are not County employees and do not fill the legal requirements. If they make a mistake, the liability on the school is massive.

Shhh the PTA mom upthread who says the PTA does “everything” won’t like to hear she isn’t a county employee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are times I feel like that person…

Back in the 80’s and 90’s we had maybe one field trip a year and that was it. I don’t remember any in MS or HS. Field trips are not a necessity, they can be fun and educational but they are not mandatory.

Plenty of schools don’t have enough money to fund field trips and they don’t have PTAs that can run fund raising to provide field trips and after school activities. The PTA cannot do the paperwork associated with the field trip, that paperwork ends up being the backbone for any liability that might arise from the trip. Teachers are over worked as it is, adding on extra things is a lot. Kids behavior has gone downhill which makes field trips even more of a nightmare, do you think it is fun to watch the kids who are nightmares at school at a museum? Or Cox farm? Or any other location?

If the PTA does everything else, you can do the goddamn paperwork.

Way to completely ignore the multiple posters who perfectly articulated what falls on the teacher. The bulk of the work CAN’T be done by the PTA.

But let’s be honest here: you don’t care. Your cursing above illustrates that quite well. Teachers should simply provide for you, shouldn’t they?

What several are reacting to is the notion that just because teachers have done some of these prices in the past that they MUST be the only ones to do them. While the health training for sure needs done the teacher I don’t understand why a room mom can’t create a draft of all the forms needed for the teacher so she just needs to hit submit, create the permission slip forms for the teacher to hand out and keep a running list for her of who has returned them, do the logistics calls with the venue and - if the principal will allow - logistics calls with the bus transport end. It seems like a refusal to consider how the process could be reworked to outsource more of the work to volunteers.

Frankly, it’s because overseeing someone doing this work is just as much work as doing it myself.

The mom isn’t familiar with requirements, forms, employees we’ll need to work with, etc. I’d have to teach the person how to do all of this work, and then turn around and teach their replacement. And it’s not worth it for the small fraction they can actually do as a volunteer.

And since the liability falls on me either way, I’m going to make sure it’s done correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are times I feel like that person…

Back in the 80’s and 90’s we had maybe one field trip a year and that was it. I don’t remember any in MS or HS. Field trips are not a necessity, they can be fun and educational but they are not mandatory.

Plenty of schools don’t have enough money to fund field trips and they don’t have PTAs that can run fund raising to provide field trips and after school activities. The PTA cannot do the paperwork associated with the field trip, that paperwork ends up being the backbone for any liability that might arise from the trip. Teachers are over worked as it is, adding on extra things is a lot. Kids behavior has gone downhill which makes field trips even more of a nightmare, do you think it is fun to watch the kids who are nightmares at school at a museum? Or Cox farm? Or any other location?

If the PTA does everything else, you can do the goddamn paperwork.

Way to completely ignore the multiple posters who perfectly articulated what falls on the teacher. The bulk of the work CAN’T be done by the PTA.

But let’s be honest here: you don’t care. Your cursing above illustrates that quite well. Teachers should simply provide for you, shouldn’t they?

What several are reacting to is the notion that just because teachers have done some of these prices in the past that they MUST be the only ones to do them. While the health training for sure needs done the teacher I don’t understand why a room mom can’t create a draft of all the forms needed for the teacher so she just needs to hit submit, create the permission slip forms for the teacher to hand out and keep a running list for her of who has returned them, do the logistics calls with the venue and - if the principal will allow - logistics calls with the bus transport end. It seems like a refusal to consider how the process could be reworked to outsource more of the work to volunteers.

I'm honestly trying to imagine what this would even look like.

Are outsiders allowed to fill out & submit internal forms at your job and track their progress in the approval chain?

How would a room mom have access to all of the student names & chaperone names to create groups for the field trip? This would include which students can't be placed in the same group, who has special needs that need to be accounted for when grouping, etc.

Would the room mom be present every morning when students arrive at school to collect the permission slips that are brought in each day and track who has/has not returned a permission slip yet? Would the room mom have access to each family's contact infromation to follow up with those who haven't returned the form yet? There is always a lot of this in the week leading up to a field trip.

It's hard to tell if some of these posts are from trolls or if these posters are really this unaware of what is involved in a field trip, as well as what it's like to work in a school right now.

[Anonymous]

They are very unaware of what it’s like to work in a school and what goes into planning these things, which I actually don’t fault them for, why would they know that. But what always irritates me is when teachers explain something about their job very thoroughly and some parent or PTA mom basically explains to us we’re wrong about our own job and very stupid if we don’t do it this other imaginary way she has thought of (that violates IDEA, FERPA, etc about 10 different ways). Yeah I’ll just have some random parent collect all this personal info and then divulge health data to them so they can review health plans and tell them who gets free lunch and who doesn’t and who can be grouped together and who can’t and why. Great idea!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are times I feel like that person…

Back in the 80’s and 90’s we had maybe one field trip a year and that was it. I don’t remember any in MS or HS. Field trips are not a necessity, they can be fun and educational but they are not mandatory.

Plenty of schools don’t have enough money to fund field trips and they don’t have PTAs that can run fund raising to provide field trips and after school activities. The PTA cannot do the paperwork associated with the field trip, that paperwork ends up being the backbone for any liability that might arise from the trip. Teachers are over worked as it is, adding on extra things is a lot. Kids behavior has gone downhill which makes field trips even more of a nightmare, do you think it is fun to watch the kids who are nightmares at school at a museum? Or Cox farm? Or any other location?

If the PTA does everything else, you can do the goddamn paperwork.

Way to completely ignore the multiple posters who perfectly articulated what falls on the teacher. The bulk of the work CAN’T be done by the PTA.

But let’s be honest here: you don’t care. Your cursing above illustrates that quite well. Teachers should simply provide for you, shouldn’t they?

What several are reacting to is the notion that just because teachers have done some of these prices in the past that they MUST be the only ones to do them. While the health training for sure needs done the teacher I don’t understand why a room mom can’t create a draft of all the forms needed for the teacher so she just needs to hit submit, create the permission slip forms for the teacher to hand out and keep a running list for her of who has returned them, do the logistics calls with the venue and - if the principal will allow - logistics calls with the bus transport end. It seems like a refusal to consider how the process could be reworked to outsource more of the work to volunteers.

I'm honestly trying to imagine what this would even look like.

What? Surely you are able to tell others what their job is like and how they could do it better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can make the packets and you can volunteer to organize the trips you deem worthwhile (within limits).
If more parents advocate for field trips and offer their manpower to make them happen we can maybe see the tide turn.

I did try to do so and I was turned down by school as well as PTA. I have however organized trips for my kids and their friends...in one guise or other. Parents have remained disinterested and ho-hum about it.

Anyways, I learnt pretty early to keep all the enrichment opportunities and resources limited to my own family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are times I feel like that person…

Back in the 80’s and 90’s we had maybe one field trip a year and that was it. I don’t remember any in MS or HS. Field trips are not a necessity, they can be fun and educational but they are not mandatory.

Plenty of schools don’t have enough money to fund field trips and they don’t have PTAs that can run fund raising to provide field trips and after school activities. The PTA cannot do the paperwork associated with the field trip, that paperwork ends up being the backbone for any liability that might arise from the trip. Teachers are over worked as it is, adding on extra things is a lot. Kids behavior has gone downhill which makes field trips even more of a nightmare, do you think it is fun to watch the kids who are nightmares at school at a museum? Or Cox farm? Or any other location?

If the PTA does everything else, you can do the goddamn paperwork.

Way to completely ignore the multiple posters who perfectly articulated what falls on the teacher. The bulk of the work CAN’T be done by the PTA.

But let’s be honest here: you don’t care. Your cursing above illustrates that quite well. Teachers should simply provide for you, shouldn’t they?

What several are reacting to is the notion that just because teachers have done some of these prices in the past that they MUST be the only ones to do them. While the health training for sure needs done the teacher I don’t understand why a room mom can’t create a draft of all the forms needed for the teacher so she just needs to hit submit, create the permission slip forms for the teacher to hand out and keep a running list for her of who has returned them, do the logistics calls with the venue and - if the principal will allow - logistics calls with the bus transport end. It seems like a refusal to consider how the process could be reworked to outsource more of the work to volunteers.

I'm honestly trying to imagine what this would even look like.

What? Surely you are able to tell others what their job is like and how they could do it better.

Seriously. And we haven't even gotten into figuring out who will need a bagged lunch so that lunch orders can be put in on time (including who is free/reduced lunch, to ensure that a lunch order is put in for those students), getting needed medications from the clinic and ensuring that those follow the students who need them, finding enough chaperones and ensuring that they have the appropriate clearance, etc.

The ignorance on this thread is astounding. Because parents have "a right" to expect field trips.

[Anonymous]

To the moms who are ready to take on this task:

Why?
What do you think is a good field trip and why?
Why do you think they are important?

This is a serious question.

What do you expect the kids to get out of the field trip?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the moms who are ready to take on this task:

Why?
What do you think is a good field trip and why?
Why do you think they are important?

This is a serious question.

What do you expect the kids to get out of the field trip?

Speaking for myself I have pretty strong memories of field trips growing up and I think they are a valuable part of a well rounded public education.

Teachers’ points about some things that cannot be outsourced are noted. It still seems hard to believe ALL the work for organizing them has to be done by the teacher directly and none of it can be outsourced. While yes the teacher is liable for it being right having someone else pull info together that is then reviewed by the teacher still seems like it would save them a lot of the prep time.