Algebra in 6th grade - new selection process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just received a phone call from the principal of Colvin Run ES, who said they will be organizing another “test” next Tuesday to assess how prepared each student is. I’m not sure how the results of this test will affect the eligibility decision.

My child has already received a letter stating that he has been selected. While I believe that taking Algebra 1H in 6th grade is unnecessary—and perhaps a bit excessive—what worries me more is how he might feel about himself if he opts out of an advanced program in which more than half of his classmates are participating.

Whoa…someone’s going to get in trouble when higher ups find out about that. Whether it’s a good idea or not, schools have been told this is the threshold, you can’t change it.

In a separate email, it was stated that the eligibility decision wouldn't change. I think there are too many students (30+) to handle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just received a phone call from the principal of Colvin Run ES, who said they will be organizing another “test” next Tuesday to assess how prepared each student is. I’m not sure how the results of this test will affect the eligibility decision.

My child has already received a letter stating that he has been selected. While I believe that taking Algebra 1H in 6th grade is unnecessary—and perhaps a bit excessive—what worries me more is how he might feel about himself if he opts out of an advanced program in which more than half of his classmates are participating.

Whoa…someone’s going to get in trouble when higher ups find out about that. Whether it’s a good idea or not, schools have been told this is the threshold, you can’t change it.

In a separate email, it was stated that the eligibility decision wouldn't change. I think there are too many students (30+) to handle.

I think it’s good to give families another data point, for sure. But too many to handle? That seems a cop out. Other schools are making it work with 50.

[Anonymous]

For those at 6-8 middle schools, wouldn’t those teachers already have had a full schedule before this was announced

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those at 6-8 middle schools, wouldn’t those teachers already have had a full schedule before this was announced

Sections of m7h were just be converted to algebra 1 honors. Schedules were changed and counselors probably muttered lots of curse words but it is relatively straight forward compared to the elementary schools who don’t have certified teachers.

[Anonymous]

What a freaking mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got the same email. Virtual classes offered during math block, up to 25 students from across the county in the class. Qualified by SOL and iReady scores.

They’ve set the program up to fail before it even starts, wonder if that’s by design…

Of course it is. All about equity. Kids should be introduced to Algebraic concepts in 5th and 6th grades as part of GenEd math. We will continue to dumb down education in America at all costs.

[Anonymous]

For parents of rising 6th, what does i ready test cover? Does it include algebra questions or is it ALL math and so the higher scores are kids getting algebra and geometry questions right? Just wondering how that test equates to IAAT that was tied to algebra readiness (and which assume will no longer be given since no longer condition for algebra). Thx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI.. here is the ChatGPT interpretation of 1125Q.

What 1125Q Means
• Quantile scale context
The Quantile Framework for Mathematics typically ranges from below 0Q (beginner concepts) to above 1600Q (advanced high school).
• Grade-level norms
• Middle 50% range for 9th grade: ~1035Q–1285Q
• Middle 50% range for 10th grade: ~1115Q–1365Q
• This means 1125Q is right at the entry level of the typical 10th-grade range and near the higher end of the 9th-grade range.
• Skill readiness
At 1125Q, a student is generally able to:
• Work confidently with pre-algebra and early algebra (solving equations, inequalities, proportions, functions).
• Begin linear systems, quadratic basics, and more complex multi-step problem solving.
• Handle abstract reasoning better than most peers at the same grade.

That seems inline with what is on the Richmond district description of abilities but the high score on those charts is 800, which is in line with the test scores of 100-800. So where is the 1125Q coming from? It is not a score that parents see, or at least that I ever saw.

Was this answered for parents? Where the 1125 comes from? Saw some parents giving kids scores of 550 and 600 that got email for algebra - so can generally guess that scores in that range meet 1125- but anyone find actual chart or explanation other than parents having to try to figure out on own? Sounds more like trying to equate iready scores to IAAT scores, but anyone find actual proof of that?

[Anonymous]

This pilot program is going to be an absolute disaster w/ the number of students they’re enrolling, and the criteria they’re now using for entry. Our center has sent a handful of 6th graders to the MS each yr to take algebra 1 over the yrs. Last year, DC (7th) was in the A1H class that had all the 6th graders. Every single 6th grader in that class had already learned algebra in their enrichment classes outside of school. They could’ve taken the final on day 1, and didn’t need the class to teach them anything. What happened in class was that those students played video games, didn’t engage in instruction, took up desks in an already overcrowded classroom, and created distractions for the teacher, which took away from the 7th grade students, many of whom were there to learn the curriculum for the first time. I’ve heard this is pretty typical.

FCPS doesn’t really seem to have much experience teaching algebra 1 as a new subject to 6th graders. They’ve historically administered tests and practiced crowd control for the handful of enriched 6th graders who are checking a curriculum box after learning content elsewhere.

Under these new guidelines, my DC would have qualified for algebra 1 in 6th, and for the students like my child, who don’t participate in outside enrichment but are now approved to enroll early, they will rely completely on FCPS to teach them. I don’t think the schools are prepared to do this for so many 6th graders learning Algebra for the first time, while mixing in enriched 6th graders students who are gaming throughout class. And if it’s virtual, as opposed to live instruction, I expect it’ll be even worse. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This pilot program is going to be an absolute disaster w/ the number of students they’re enrolling, and the criteria they’re now using for entry. Our center has sent a handful of 6th graders to the MS each yr to take algebra 1 over the yrs. Last year, DC (7th) was in the A1H class that had all the 6th graders. Every single 6th grader in that class had already learned algebra in their enrichment classes outside of school. They could’ve taken the final on day 1, and didn’t need the class to teach them anything. What happened in class was that those students played video games, didn’t engage in instruction, took up desks in an already overcrowded classroom, and created distractions for the teacher, which took away from the 7th grade students, many of whom were there to learn the curriculum for the first time. I’ve heard this is pretty typical.

FCPS doesn’t really seem to have much experience teaching algebra 1 as a new subject to 6th graders. They’ve historically administered tests and practiced crowd control for the handful of enriched 6th graders who are checking a curriculum box after learning content elsewhere.

Under these new guidelines, my DC would have qualified for algebra 1 in 6th, and for the students like my child, who don’t participate in outside enrichment but are now approved to enroll early, they will rely completely on FCPS to teach them. I don’t think the schools are prepared to do this for so many 6th graders learning Algebra for the first time, while mixing in enriched 6th graders students who are gaming throughout class. And if it’s virtual, as opposed to live instruction, I expect it’ll be even worse. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

This kind of thing happening in other areas too. The PE teacher is showing kids how to hold a basketball, while some students—who’ve been training in travel leagues—are already doing crossovers and sinking three-pointers. Same with music - the teacher would be introducing the violin, but some students are already playing sonatas because they’ve been learning it well ahead of the public school curriculum. This gaming started with sports with greed to get on school teams, and not that has spread to academics like math.

[Anonymous]

I have FCPS grads who went to MIT and an Ivy. They did Algebra in 7th though had friends at another ES who were in the small group that took it in 6th. From their AAP center half went into Alg in 7th and the other half later. So now that half would all be going to Algebra in 6th? There is no way this works, especially this late in the game without exposure to pre-algebra and teachers who have never taught Alg. A decent percentage of the 7th grade kids already re-take Algebra or slow their progression down later. Many who make it through Calc end up not wanting to progress because they won't need it for their college interests. So you are going to have a bunch of kids finished with Calc in 10th grade who need 2 more years of math to look good for colleges but only AP Stats left if they don't want to advance more. In my kids classes where the DE MultiVar/DiffEQ/Linear Algebra was a 1 year course (now will be 2 years) was not challenging to the top half of the class. Now it will be a total waste of time. Hurry up with math to get to 2 years where they are just doing 1 semester of college level math over a year? If your kids go to school outside of VA those DE courses are unlikely to count for transfer credit. Making easily bored advanced math kids repeat courses in college isn't great for them. The only way where Algebra in 6th works is if kids go to TJ where they have a number of different progressions in math they can choose from and their DE MultiVar progression is 1 semester per course not a year. We personally did not want TJ for our kids and didn't let them apply. It would have been a tough decision in 6th not letting them take it knowing they could handle it but realizing the back end of the decision in high school could be really problematic in a number of ways and really only beneficial if they go to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got the same email. Virtual classes offered during math block, up to 25 students from across the county in the class. Qualified by SOL and iReady scores.

They’ve set the program up to fail before it even starts, wonder if that’s by design…

Of course it is. All about equity. Kids should be introduced to Algebraic concepts in 5th and 6th grades as part of GenEd math. We will continue to dumb down education in America at all costs.

Algebraic concepts absolutely are taught in elementary math grades. Have you looked at the standards recently? “Patterns, functions, and algebra” is a strand starting in kindergarten and growing through 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Our center school is absolutely not an enrichment heavy center. I don’t know a single child who does RSM or AOPS (both would be an hour+ drive each way after school!). We do have a kumon, but that’s reinforcement more than extension, so I’m not worried about pp’s issue.

I think we will run into trouble with kids being over their head quickly. I hope the off ramp is smooth and simple. And quick, because m7 puts the prealgebra strands early in the year so if they move in November it won’t help their algebraic foundations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got the same email. Virtual classes offered during math block, up to 25 students from across the county in the class. Qualified by SOL and iReady scores.

They’ve set the program up to fail before it even starts, wonder if that’s by design…

Of course it is. All about equity. Kids should be introduced to Algebraic concepts in 5th and 6th grades as part of GenEd math. We will continue to dumb down education in America at all costs.

Algebraic concepts absolutely are taught in elementary math grades. Have you looked at the standards recently? “Patterns, functions, and algebra” is a strand starting in kindergarten and growing through 6th grade.

Absolutely, many kids are clearly showing they're ready to grasp algebraic concepts early, not all, but a significant number that justifies formally offering Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Benefits URM and FARM students, whose families are unaware how to nurture strong math skills early on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have FCPS grads who went to MIT and an Ivy. They did Algebra in 7th though had friends at another ES who were in the small group that took it in 6th. From their AAP center half went into Alg in 7th and the other half later. So now that half would all be going to Algebra in 6th? There is no way this works, especially this late in the game without exposure to pre-algebra and teachers who have never taught Alg. A decent percentage of the 7th grade kids already re-take Algebra or slow their progression down later. Many who make it through Calc end up not wanting to progress because they won't need it for their college interests. So you are going to have a bunch of kids finished with Calc in 10th grade who need 2 more years of math to look good for colleges but only AP Stats left if they don't want to advance more. In my kids classes where the DE MultiVar/DiffEQ/Linear Algebra was a 1 year course (now will be 2 years) was not challenging to the top half of the class. Now it will be a total waste of time. Hurry up with math to get to 2 years where they are just doing 1 semester of college level math over a year? If your kids go to school outside of VA those DE courses are unlikely to count for transfer credit. Making easily bored advanced math kids repeat courses in college isn't great for them. The only way where Algebra in 6th works is if kids go to TJ where they have a number of different progressions in math they can choose from and their DE MultiVar progression is 1 semester per course not a year. We personally did not want TJ for our kids and didn't let them apply. It would have been a tough decision in 6th not letting them take it knowing they could handle it but realizing the back end of the decision in high school could be really problematic in a number of ways and really only beneficial if they go to TJ.

In what world is the first rollout not offering pre algebra to all ES v algebra-especially when the only HS prepared to have more than a handful of this # of kids advanced in math is TJ. At this point, why not just go bolder and end AAP now (Board/Reid said to want to) and have kids apply and be selected for TJ in 2nd grade- at least then if put them on higher math path it is to a school that can support it. Lock those 8 year olds in now!