NY Times on new application essays dabbling in so-called "identities"

[Anonymous]

The government cannot limit free expression. That is baked onto the Constitution. There was no way this decision could have prevented students from writing about whatever they feel is important to say to an admissions committee.

The SC did what it could - which is explicitly instruct American universities to not use race as a deciding factor in admissions. After all of this I'm certain universities will follow those instructions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people opposed to this only do so because they think race or gender are the only way people identify and they are afraid that being white and cis may hamper their kid's college app.

But it is BS because there are so many ways your identity is defined. Physically, racially, culturally.

My husband wrote his essay on being an only child.


When I read the question from the article, “Tell us about an aspect of your identity or a life experience that has shaped you," I immediately thought of how much of my life has been shaped by my physical disability (missing a limb). In fact, I wrote about this in my college app essay in 1994.

Sorry if it offends you that I was shaped by this, and that I shouldn't have written about it. I know some of you want to believe or downplay the experiences of others as cashing in on "trauma," but you are so far off the mark.

Yup. As always, the people who claim not to want to talk or think about race and gender can’t help but show that they are actually obsessed with it.

white/hetero/athletic/intelligent male:
People look at me and before they know anything about me or my background they think: 'toxic masculinity', 'privilege', 'racist', 'misogynist', 'homophobic', etc. They see the root cause of all that is wrong with society these days apparently. I am a walking billboard for them to direct their hate.

Give us some specific examples of how it's impacted your life.

NP here. If you asked any middle or UMC black person the same question, they are unlikely to have glaring examples to point to, like lack of homeownership or difficulty getting into colleges (on the contrary actually, they benefit). What they would point to were probably many small micro aggressions and insults to their personhood that accumulated over their life. This now happens to white cis males all the time, and if you can't see that you are blind.

+1000. Look at the rhetoric proliferating throughout college campuses, mass media, and major employers. White people are constantly warned that our mere presence in a ““predominantly white institution”” makes POC feel challenged, uncomfortable, and unwelcome. How is being told that our very existence is threatening not an example of racism and bigotry?

Well maybe you should listen and discuss. Have you ever found yourself spending years in an institution that was predominantly not your own race? What do you think that would be like? Are you brave enough to spend long amounts of time somewhere where you'd be a minority and very few people would be anything like you?

Why not engage in conversation and try to understand why someone feels unwelcome? Someone telling you they feel unwelcome in an environment is not personally targeting you. If they are saying YOU personally make them feel unwelcome, well, maybe you've done something.

What has your workplace specifically told YOU on a personal level about your very being? I'm white and I have not had your experience of "constantly being warned" that *my* mere presence--me, personally-- is challenging to my non-white colleagues in my workplace which is in fact a very white institution. But I have been in a few meetings where colleagues of color have shared their feelings about always being the only POC in their departments, meetings, etc., through their entire careers. That does not feel threatening to me, personally. It feels revealing and I understand better where they are coming from and why it's important to encourage diversity in the workplace.

Try it. Understanding other people is a great skill to have.

I see where you are coming from, but I don’t agree with this perspective. Say, for example, I told a group of people—including a number of black people—that being in black-majority environments makes me uncomfortable, but it’s not anything to do with those specific black people. I do not think that conversation would go well. But for some reason, certain people believe it is socially acceptable to say this about whites.

Good grief. It's like you think the entire context of centuries of white oppression of blacks doesn't exist. White racism against blacks still exists today whether you want to believe that or not. It's still a reality for most black people. Just ask your black friends and neighbors and family.

I think if you were in a group with black colleagues and had an honest discussion and admitted you feel uncomfortable and WHY you feel uncomfortable when you are the only white person in a room and use that to discuss how you can therefore understand why black colleagues would feel uncomfortable always being the only black person in a room, then you'd start up a real conversation and dialogue. Is that a bad thing? Most white people I know are not entirely comfortable being the only white person in a room. One because they're not used to it. Two because you are self-conscious. Imagine now how it feels for your black/Asian/Native American colleagues who live their entire lives like this. Any thoughts about that? Why do you expect them to feel nothing when you acknowledge you'd feel strange in a reversed situation?

Is there anyone alive today who can claim to have experienced "centuries of racism?" Maybe a handful of centagenarians? Be real.

I don't expect anyone to feel nothing, but I do think learning to live with each other is far more productive than saying "whites are intrinsically unsettling to me." Our tribalistic group identities are something to overcome, not encourage.

Do you really think centuries of racism and oppression just disappear overnight with no lasting consequences on society?? Seriously? And look how you conveniently overlooked the statement that racism against black people still exists today.

Why are you so afraid to hear what your black friends / colleagues have to say or to learn about their experience? How can you learn to live with people who don’t like who you are and won’t discuss that?

Do you think we should do away with Irish clubs at schools? Get rid of those tribalistic Irish dance companies?

[Anonymous]

Being "Black" or "Asian" or "Jewish" or "LGBTQ" or "Catholic" is just a part of who a person is. In different times and places people are treated better or worse because of those things. That is ordinary for everyone.

If a student wants to write about then great joy and comfort they receive from their community then why shouldn't they?

[Anonymous]

My student will be filling out college applications soon. I don't know if he'll get an identity question. He's male, cis-gender, white-ish (Mexican mom, white dad), and has dyslexia.

I have zero idea what he'd choose to write about but I wonder if the dyslexia portion would be a negative for colleges.

[Anonymous]

He can write whatever he wants. Something about his intended major is always a good idea

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people opposed to this only do so because they think race or gender are the only way people identify and they are afraid that being white and cis may hamper their kid's college app.

But it is BS because there are so many ways your identity is defined. Physically, racially, culturally.

My husband wrote his essay on being an only child.


When I read the question from the article, “Tell us about an aspect of your identity or a life experience that has shaped you," I immediately thought of how much of my life has been shaped by my physical disability (missing a limb). In fact, I wrote about this in my college app essay in 1994.

Sorry if it offends you that I was shaped by this, and that I shouldn't have written about it. I know some of you want to believe or downplay the experiences of others as cashing in on "trauma," but you are so far off the mark.

Yup. As always, the people who claim not to want to talk or think about race and gender can’t help but show that they are actually obsessed with it.

white/hetero/athletic/intelligent male:
People look at me and before they know anything about me or my background they think: 'toxic masculinity', 'privilege', 'racist', 'misogynist', 'homophobic', etc. They see the root cause of all that is wrong with society these days apparently. I am a walking billboard for them to direct their hate.

Give us some specific examples of how it's impacted your life.

NP here. If you asked any middle or UMC black person the same question, they are unlikely to have glaring examples to point to, like lack of homeownership or difficulty getting into colleges (on the contrary actually, they benefit). What they would point to were probably many small micro aggressions and insults to their personhood that accumulated over their life. This now happens to white cis males all the time, and if you can't see that you are blind.

+1000. Look at the rhetoric proliferating throughout college campuses, mass media, and major employers. White people are constantly warned that our mere presence in a ““predominantly white institution”” makes POC feel challenged, uncomfortable, and unwelcome. How is being told that our very existence is threatening not an example of racism and bigotry?

Well maybe you should listen and discuss. Have you ever found yourself spending years in an institution that was predominantly not your own race? What do you think that would be like? Are you brave enough to spend long amounts of time somewhere where you'd be a minority and very few people would be anything like you?

Why not engage in conversation and try to understand why someone feels unwelcome? Someone telling you they feel unwelcome in an environment is not personally targeting you. If they are saying YOU personally make them feel unwelcome, well, maybe you've done something.

What has your workplace specifically told YOU on a personal level about your very being? I'm white and I have not had your experience of "constantly being warned" that *my* mere presence--me, personally-- is challenging to my non-white colleagues in my workplace which is in fact a very white institution. But I have been in a few meetings where colleagues of color have shared their feelings about always being the only POC in their departments, meetings, etc., through their entire careers. That does not feel threatening to me, personally. It feels revealing and I understand better where they are coming from and why it's important to encourage diversity in the workplace.

Try it. Understanding other people is a great skill to have.

I see where you are coming from, but I don’t agree with this perspective. Say, for example, I told a group of people—including a number of black people—that being in black-majority environments makes me uncomfortable, but it’s not anything to do with those specific black people. I do not think that conversation would go well. But for some reason, certain people believe it is socially acceptable to say this about whites.

Good grief. It's like you think the entire context of centuries of white oppression of blacks doesn't exist. White racism against blacks still exists today whether you want to believe that or not. It's still a reality for most black people. Just ask your black friends and neighbors and family.

I think if you were in a group with black colleagues and had an honest discussion and admitted you feel uncomfortable and WHY you feel uncomfortable when you are the only white person in a room and use that to discuss how you can therefore understand why black colleagues would feel uncomfortable always being the only black person in a room, then you'd start up a real conversation and dialogue. Is that a bad thing? Most white people I know are not entirely comfortable being the only white person in a room. One because they're not used to it. Two because you are self-conscious. Imagine now how it feels for your black/Asian/Native American colleagues who live their entire lives like this. Any thoughts about that? Why do you expect them to feel nothing when you acknowledge you'd feel strange in a reversed situation?

Is there anyone alive today who can claim to have experienced "centuries of racism?" Maybe a handful of centagenarians? Be real.

I don't expect anyone to feel nothing, but I do think learning to live with each other is far more productive than saying "whites are intrinsically unsettling to me." Our tribalistic group identities are something to overcome, not encourage.

Do you really think centuries of racism and oppression just disappear overnight with no lasting consequences on society?? Seriously?

[Not that PP but yes. See: East and South Asians who experienced centuries of racism and oppression and are doing better than white kids in America today.]

And look how you conveniently overlooked the statement that racism against black people still exists today.

[LOL]

Why are you so afraid to hear what your black friends / colleagues have to say or to learn about their experience? How can you learn to live with people who don’t like who you are and won’t discuss that?

[I'm not afraid of it, I just don't care about it. But please, stop pretending we're somehow "not talking about black experiences" - you can't get away from it in America today.]

Do you think we should do away with Irish clubs at schools? Get rid of those tribalistic Irish dance companies?

[That's not going to get any Irish kids into college so who cares.]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people opposed to this only do so because they think race or gender are the only way people identify and they are afraid that being white and cis may hamper their kid's college app.

But it is BS because there are so many ways your identity is defined. Physically, racially, culturally.

My husband wrote his essay on being an only child.


When I read the question from the article, “Tell us about an aspect of your identity or a life experience that has shaped you," I immediately thought of how much of my life has been shaped by my physical disability (missing a limb). In fact, I wrote about this in my college app essay in 1994.

Sorry if it offends you that I was shaped by this, and that I shouldn't have written about it. I know some of you want to believe or downplay the experiences of others as cashing in on "trauma," but you are so far off the mark.

Yup. As always, the people who claim not to want to talk or think about race and gender can’t help but show that they are actually obsessed with it.

white/hetero/athletic/intelligent male:
People look at me and before they know anything about me or my background they think: 'toxic masculinity', 'privilege', 'racist', 'misogynist', 'homophobic', etc. They see the root cause of all that is wrong with society these days apparently. I am a walking billboard for them to direct their hate.

Give us some specific examples of how it's impacted your life.

NP here. If you asked any middle or UMC black person the same question, they are unlikely to have glaring examples to point to, like lack of homeownership or difficulty getting into colleges (on the contrary actually, they benefit). What they would point to were probably many small micro aggressions and insults to their personhood that accumulated over their life. This now happens to white cis males all the time, and if you can't see that you are blind.

+1000. Look at the rhetoric proliferating throughout college campuses, mass media, and major employers. White people are constantly warned that our mere presence in a ““predominantly white institution”” makes POC feel challenged, uncomfortable, and unwelcome. How is being told that our very existence is threatening not an example of racism and bigotry?

Well maybe you should listen and discuss. Have you ever found yourself spending years in an institution that was predominantly not your own race? What do you think that would be like? Are you brave enough to spend long amounts of time somewhere where you'd be a minority and very few people would be anything like you?

Why not engage in conversation and try to understand why someone feels unwelcome? Someone telling you they feel unwelcome in an environment is not personally targeting you. If they are saying YOU personally make them feel unwelcome, well, maybe you've done something.

What has your workplace specifically told YOU on a personal level about your very being? I'm white and I have not had your experience of "constantly being warned" that *my* mere presence--me, personally-- is challenging to my non-white colleagues in my workplace which is in fact a very white institution. But I have been in a few meetings where colleagues of color have shared their feelings about always being the only POC in their departments, meetings, etc., through their entire careers. That does not feel threatening to me, personally. It feels revealing and I understand better where they are coming from and why it's important to encourage diversity in the workplace.

Try it. Understanding other people is a great skill to have.

I see where you are coming from, but I don’t agree with this perspective. Say, for example, I told a group of people—including a number of black people—that being in black-majority environments makes me uncomfortable, but it’s not anything to do with those specific black people. I do not think that conversation would go well. But for some reason, certain people believe it is socially acceptable to say this about whites.

Good grief. It's like you think the entire context of centuries of white oppression of blacks doesn't exist. White racism against blacks still exists today whether you want to believe that or not. It's still a reality for most black people. Just ask your black friends and neighbors and family.

I think if you were in a group with black colleagues and had an honest discussion and admitted you feel uncomfortable and WHY you feel uncomfortable when you are the only white person in a room and use that to discuss how you can therefore understand why black colleagues would feel uncomfortable always being the only black person in a room, then you'd start up a real conversation and dialogue. Is that a bad thing? Most white people I know are not entirely comfortable being the only white person in a room. One because they're not used to it. Two because you are self-conscious. Imagine now how it feels for your black/Asian/Native American colleagues who live their entire lives like this. Any thoughts about that? Why do you expect them to feel nothing when you acknowledge you'd feel strange in a reversed situation?

Is there anyone alive today who can claim to have experienced "centuries of racism?" Maybe a handful of centagenarians? Be real.

I don't expect anyone to feel nothing, but I do think learning to live with each other is far more productive than saying "whites are intrinsically unsettling to me." Our tribalistic group identities are something to overcome, not encourage.

Do you really think centuries of racism and oppression just disappear overnight with no lasting consequences on society?? Seriously?

[Not that PP but yes. See: East and South Asians who experienced centuries of racism and oppression and are doing better than white kids in America today.]

And look how you conveniently overlooked the statement that racism against black people still exists today.

[LOL]

Why are you so afraid to hear what your black friends / colleagues have to say or to learn about their experience? How can you learn to live with people who don’t like who you are and won’t discuss that?

[I'm not afraid of it, I just don't care about it. But please, stop pretending we're somehow "not talking about black experiences" - you can't get away from it in America today.]

Do you think we should do away with Irish clubs at schools? Get rid of those tribalistic Irish dance companies?

[That's not going to get any Irish kids into college so who cares.]

LOL at racism still existing today? You don't care about your black friends' negative experiences? Of course, that's probably generous of me to even consider someone like you has any close friendships with non-white people.

And what a dumb, naive thing to say that white racism against Asians has disappeared. Seriously? Do you never pay attention to the news?

And stupid comment that a well crafted essay about Irish identity won't get a kid into college. Of course it can. Only someone without imagination thinks it can't. Basically your kid could write about any topic and if they do it well enough to grab the attention of the selection committee that can be the tipping point. Including writing about your Irish heritage or years of belonging to an Irish dance club.

[Anonymous]

“Our tribalistic group identities are something to overcome, not encourage.“

Yes! It’s so weird that the people who claim they don’t want race to be an issue are always making race an issue.

[Anonymous]

So many of the posts in this thread are demonstrating exactly why colleges now require intelligent, thoughtful reflections about identity and self as part of their admissions process. Not everyone can do it, or are willing to try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what it means not to partake in "identification". Are you saying that your kid refuses to answer questions about their gender, or religion, or nationality, or family status or hobbies?

Everyone I know identifies as something.

If you're a white male, cis/het, not religious, UMC, family been here a long time and intermixed (generic European), truly what is there to say?

I'm not in this category but I feel like these Qs should be optional. Otherwise it is very cringe and fake.

"Tell us about an aspect of your identity OR a life experience that has shaped you."

By 17, kids have been shaped by something. If not, write an eloquent essay about being an unmolded lump still seeking form.

No need to bolden that. "Shaping life experiences" are also none of a university's business and this part of the question has no legitimate purpose, either.

Anonymous wrote:
My kid has many aspects to his identity. He is Jewish. He has a disability. He has a brother with a disability. He is white. He is American. He is a cis male. He plays a sport. He grew up in the south. He enjoys science. He is an extrovert who prides himself on prioritizing friendships. He volunteers. Some of those things he shared in essays, and some he chose not to either because he felt they were too personal (e.g., his disability) or irrelevant (e.g., they saw his citizenship and sex/gender when he applied and he didn't have anything to add on that topic). That left him with tons and tons of things to talk about, many of which he "chose" for himself (sports, academic interests, volunteer work, friendships).

Are you familiar with the teen slang TMI?
None of this belongs in a college application, and shouldn't even be asked.

A college application should not ask about sports, academic interests, and volunteer work? Or, again, is the problem with race, religion, and gender?

Your brain seems so mushed that you can't see the difference. Yes, colleges can asked about academic interests - though better only academic achievements.

Race, religion, gender, sports, volunteer work are nonacademic issues that have no relevance. You know who does it that way?
Every industrialized country aside from the U.S. You send in your transcript, perhaps take an entrance exam, and that's what decides.

Not your oversharing your "identity" to play some kind of stupid game, as other posters have pointed out.

Might I recommend a little more precision in your reading and writing then, because you first declared that none of the examples (including academic interest) belonged in the application. Thus my confusion about the point you were trying to make.

Also, as others have pointed out, those countries you are talking about have fully and publicly funded universities. That is why they rely on exams.

But it's nice to see that you support publicly funded universities. I wasn't expecting you to be so forward thinking. What other social programs do you feel our government should support through taxes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people opposed to this only do so because they think race or gender are the only way people identify and they are afraid that being white and cis may hamper their kid's college app.

But it is BS because there are so many ways your identity is defined. Physically, racially, culturally.

My husband wrote his essay on being an only child.


When I read the question from the article, “Tell us about an aspect of your identity or a life experience that has shaped you," I immediately thought of how much of my life has been shaped by my physical disability (missing a limb). In fact, I wrote about this in my college app essay in 1994.

Sorry if it offends you that I was shaped by this, and that I shouldn't have written about it. I know some of you want to believe or downplay the experiences of others as cashing in on "trauma," but you are so far off the mark.

Yup. As always, the people who claim not to want to talk or think about race and gender can’t help but show that they are actually obsessed with it.

white/hetero/athletic/intelligent male:
People look at me and before they know anything about me or my background they think: 'toxic masculinity', 'privilege', 'racist', 'misogynist', 'homophobic', etc. They see the root cause of all that is wrong with society these days apparently. I am a walking billboard for them to direct their hate.

Give us some specific examples of how it's impacted your life.

NP here. If you asked any middle or UMC black person the same question, they are unlikely to have glaring examples to point to, like lack of homeownership or difficulty getting into colleges (on the contrary actually, they benefit). What they would point to were probably many small micro aggressions and insults to their personhood that accumulated over their life. This now happens to white cis males all the time, and if you can't see that you are blind.

+1000. Look at the rhetoric proliferating throughout college campuses, mass media, and major employers. White people are constantly warned that our mere presence in a ““predominantly white institution”” makes POC feel challenged, uncomfortable, and unwelcome. How is being told that our very existence is threatening not an example of racism and bigotry?

Well maybe you should listen and discuss. Have you ever found yourself spending years in an institution that was predominantly not your own race? What do you think that would be like? Are you brave enough to spend long amounts of time somewhere where you'd be a minority and very few people would be anything like you?

Why not engage in conversation and try to understand why someone feels unwelcome? Someone telling you they feel unwelcome in an environment is not personally targeting you. If they are saying YOU personally make them feel unwelcome, well, maybe you've done something.

What has your workplace specifically told YOU on a personal level about your very being? I'm white and I have not had your experience of "constantly being warned" that *my* mere presence--me, personally-- is challenging to my non-white colleagues in my workplace which is in fact a very white institution. But I have been in a few meetings where colleagues of color have shared their feelings about always being the only POC in their departments, meetings, etc., through their entire careers. That does not feel threatening to me, personally. It feels revealing and I understand better where they are coming from and why it's important to encourage diversity in the workplace.

Try it. Understanding other people is a great skill to have.

I see where you are coming from, but I don’t agree with this perspective. Say, for example, I told a group of people—including a number of black people—that being in black-majority environments makes me uncomfortable, but it’s not anything to do with those specific black people. I do not think that conversation would go well. But for some reason, certain people believe it is socially acceptable to say this about whites.

Good grief. It's like you think the entire context of centuries of white oppression of blacks doesn't exist. White racism against blacks still exists today whether you want to believe that or not. It's still a reality for most black people. Just ask your black friends and neighbors and family.

I think if you were in a group with black colleagues and had an honest discussion and admitted you feel uncomfortable and WHY you feel uncomfortable when you are the only white person in a room and use that to discuss how you can therefore understand why black colleagues would feel uncomfortable always being the only black person in a room, then you'd start up a real conversation and dialogue. Is that a bad thing? Most white people I know are not entirely comfortable being the only white person in a room. One because they're not used to it. Two because you are self-conscious. Imagine now how it feels for your black/Asian/Native American colleagues who live their entire lives like this. Any thoughts about that? Why do you expect them to feel nothing when you acknowledge you'd feel strange in a reversed situation?

Is there anyone alive today who can claim to have experienced "centuries of racism?" Maybe a handful of centagenarians? Be real.

I don't expect anyone to feel nothing, but I do think learning to live with each other is far more productive than saying "whites are intrinsically unsettling to me." Our tribalistic group identities are something to overcome, not encourage.

+ a trillion.

Also, hey, millions of people who migrate here prove one important point: it is possible to move elsewhere too to some promised land where black people rule and all is beautiful and fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Our tribalistic group identities are something to overcome, not encourage.“

Yes! It’s so weird that the people who claim they don’t want race to be an issue are always making race an issue.

This country was founded on the principle of group identities (race) so it will never just 'not be an issue'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being "Black" or "Asian" or "Jewish" or "LGBTQ" or "Catholic" is just a part of who a person is. In different times and places people are treated better or worse because of those things. That is ordinary for everyone.

If a student wants to write about then great joy and comfort they receive from their community then why shouldn't they?

Again, that’s not the real intent of the essay. It’s to get urms in legally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being "Black" or "Asian" or "Jewish" or "LGBTQ" or "Catholic" is just a part of who a person is. In different times and places people are treated better or worse because of those things. That is ordinary for everyone.

If a student wants to write about then great joy and comfort they receive from their community then why shouldn't they?

Again, that’s not the real intent of the essay. It’s to get urms in legally.

On what basis do you say this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Our tribalistic group identities are something to overcome, not encourage.“

Yes! It’s so weird that the people who claim they don’t want race to be an issue are always making race an issue.

This country was founded on the principle of group identities (race) so it will never just 'not be an issue'.

False premise thereby dumb conclusion.