Lottery/school despair

[Anonymous]

Agree with prior posters that shifting schools multiple times isn't ideal either for kids or families. Sorry to hear you have had a rough year. I feel like this has been suggested/brought up already, but if you haven't already, ask around to parents from different grades/classes and to get a sense of if it is not just a one-teacher fluke of a bad year.
Another school that isn't super hard into from OOB (after ECE) is Payne. It is a smaller school with only 2 classes per grade, and most of the teachers have 10-15+ years of experience. So far it hasn't had the 5th grade drop off to Basis/Latin, many of the kids do/score well on the various metrics you can look at, and the majority of it's 2023 5th graders will be at Eliot Hine next year. Stepping back a bit, I do think almost all schools anywhere had a rough year after coming back from COVID, both with kids coming back behind academically, with behaviors, or teacher turnover during the pandemic. So hopefully in the coming year or two things will settle down a bit.
Teacher tenure is something else to look at when you are looking at schools, and I believe that is publicly available. As somebody who taught at a school with very high turnover, and whose kids have been at a school for 8 years with barely any turnover, I can see firsthand the difference it makes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look harder at short wait lists.

I would give you the name of my kid's genuine hidden gem school which is basically in your target area, has slots in almost every grade, and IMHO, a solid middle school feeder. (HS option pretty terrible though, at least currently).
But I don't want to be accused of the ultimate DCUM crime of boostering.

And it's not the only school that fits that description, there are similar options that are definitely worth considering. I know our school is working its wait list and assume others will pick up this summer.

Is it Langley? If so, can you tell me more about your experience there?

Not the PP, but a current parent there who has been very happy at Langley. I can tell you that the 1st grade teachers there in particular are amazing!!! The school is going to have any of the issues you might find in a gentrifying school, but my kids have been very well served there. It’s a wonderful community of families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are making the mistake of assuming that popularity = quality. The pool of kids looking to lottery and change schools starts to shrink after K. There start to be spaces in many of the Hill area elementary schools (for example) in mid-elementary grades. There are some reasonably good DCPS elementary schools that do not necessarily get much attention OOB.

No, you don’t understand school differences. There is a huge difference between Capitol Hill DCPS elementary schools and most other DCPS elementary schools EOTP. That difference, which is the most important, is academic performance. CH schools overwhelmingly at and above grade level, 60-89%. Non CH around 30% so overwhelmingly below grade level.

School in CH start losing kids after 4th because of the middle school feed due to Latin and Basis. Retention of families in K-3rd is high. Non CH schools EOTP, in contrast, start losing kids much earlier like K-1st. By 2nd, it’s stark. It’s not due to the middle school feed. It’s because families are not happy like OP and they are looking for a better school and trying to trade up.

There might be an exception in 1 or 2 grade where the CH schools may have space to take a few OOB kids but not common at all. You never see CH schools on short waitlist. Where other many non CH schools you can pretty much get in any grade 1st and up and on the short waitlist almost every year.

And no I’m not in CH. I’m in the other group.

You are massively overstating this. Just this year already, Brent offered 18 spots in the K lottery and has already made 22 offers for K on top of that. Last year Brent made 34 offers for 2nd grade. Ludlow-Taylor offered 4 seats for 1st and also made 4 offers, 7 seats for 2nd and also made 4 offers, 12 seats for 3rd and already made 2 offers, etc. Multiple offers in all grades last year as well. Maury is harder to get into, but last year they made 15 offers for K and 7 for 1st. Now, this isn't to say that any one particular kid will definitely get a spot at a particular school, but if you keep trying at multiple schools, chances are it'll work out. You're being ridiculous when you say "a few OOB kids" and "not common at all". Try checking the data before you assert yourself. This site is supposed to be helpful, not mislead people.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/aaron2446/viz/MSDCSeatsandWaitlistOfferData_draft/MSDCPublicDisplay

OP here. None of those schools— Brent, Maury, L-T— have short waitlists. I know because I’m on them. You still have to lick into spots there.

The schools on the Hill with short waitlists are fairly similar to our current school— fine for ECE but issues after that. I’m not interested in trading one such school for another, there is no point.

If you're wanting a school system where you can get into any good school with no luck at all, I'm not sure where you could find that. Definitely not here. But having a short waitlist is not the same thing as it being really hard to get a spot. Sorry you didn't get a good lottery number, but there's a difference between "Can get in even with a terrible number or post-lottery add" and "really hard to get into".

People are trying to help you find a good school that you can get into, but you're defining "good school" as "school with a long waitlist" and if you keep up with that attitude, it might never work out. Last year, Ludlow-Taylor had a 2nd grade waitlist of 17, and made 17 offers. Does that cause you to think it's a bad school?

No, that does not make me think it's a bad school -- I would be over the moon happy if we got into L-T.

But my lottery luck runs such that if they had a waitlist of 17, I'd been spot #17, and then that would be the year they only made 16 offers.

Honestly, this thread is not me asking you to fix my lottery problem. It was really just me venting about the fact that the system feels arbitrary and frustrating, where one family can get lucky in PK3 and other families get unlucky year after year, and that's what dictates whether you can stay in your home. And, oh yeah, all of this is coinciding with market conditions that are throwing up obstacles to us moving, like living in a place with skyrocketing housing prices (except on the kind of housing we currently own) at a time when rates are going up as well.

I'm just complaining. Some people actually have offered useful advice for which I'm grateful, but you're running in circles saying stuff like "Are you saying L-T isn't a good school because they cleared their 2nd grade waitlist last year?" and not listening when I explain that of course it's a good school, it's just that we're not on the waitlist for 2nd and the odds of them clearing their waitlist this year are extremely slim and we are literally in the last spot on their waitlist, so there is virtually no point in discussing whether I would accept a spot there (I would) since I almost certainly won't be offered a spot.

OP, I'm just here to say we're in the same boat and I totally commiserate with you. We struck out at the PK-3/4 lottery, and we're resigned to moving assuming the K lottery goes poorly as well. It sucks because we like our home, I love being a few blocks from the metro, and I love being in DC. We're a 1 car family and I don't like driving, so moving to the burbs would be hard, but moving to a good school district in DC to get us through high school will cost us a fortune if we want the same amount of space we have now. It also sucks because we live in a condo and will probably make nothing from selling, even though we've been here for 6 years. All the advice to "rent out your place and move back the next year" is ridiculous for us because we can't even rent out our place to cover our mortgage. So just know that you're not alone in your frustration!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Frankly, I would just move now OP to solid pyramid so you get a good elementary and middle school. I’ve looked at ITS middle and crossed it off the list. There is a reason why many ITS families don’t send their kid to the middle school there. Nevertheless with supply and demand, it will get harder to get into ITS for middle school like I said as more families are shut out of everything

We are an ITS middle school family. The reason given by the families we know who left was because of the lack of a high school feeder. Most said they would have stayed if there was a definitive high school option. We stayed because ITS usually helps place students in their top-choice high school. Being that we are fine with Banneker, SWW or Duke Ellington, this works fine for us. ITS is serious about planning for high school. Each ITS student has to create a portfolio and defend it in front of a panel of teachers. They research and reflect on what they want in a school, learn how to interview and learn how to fill out applications. Good lessons for college! The school hand holds this process. I've heard from parents that their DCs got a lot out of the experience. There are many academic kids and the school does pull-outs for math/English enrichment. Definitely not BASIS-academic but the kids have fun learning. There's a big focus on the arts and critical thinking. Some new teachers are joining next year from KIPP so I think the intent is to be more academic. The new Principal is impressive and seems to be making the right calls. If that's what you're looking for, it's a great option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are making the mistake of assuming that popularity = quality. The pool of kids looking to lottery and change schools starts to shrink after K. There start to be spaces in many of the Hill area elementary schools (for example) in mid-elementary grades. There are some reasonably good DCPS elementary schools that do not necessarily get much attention OOB.

No, you don’t understand school differences. There is a huge difference between Capitol Hill DCPS elementary schools and most other DCPS elementary schools EOTP. That difference, which is the most important, is academic performance. CH schools overwhelmingly at and above grade level, 60-89%. Non CH around 30% so overwhelmingly below grade level.

School in CH start losing kids after 4th because of the middle school feed due to Latin and Basis. Retention of families in K-3rd is high. Non CH schools EOTP, in contrast, start losing kids much earlier like K-1st. By 2nd, it’s stark. It’s not due to the middle school feed. It’s because families are not happy like OP and they are looking for a better school and trying to trade up.

There might be an exception in 1 or 2 grade where the CH schools may have space to take a few OOB kids but not common at all. You never see CH schools on short waitlist. Where other many non CH schools you can pretty much get in any grade 1st and up and on the short waitlist almost every year.

And no I’m not in CH. I’m in the other group.

You are massively overstating this. Just this year already, Brent offered 18 spots in the K lottery and has already made 22 offers for K on top of that. Last year Brent made 34 offers for 2nd grade. Ludlow-Taylor offered 4 seats for 1st and also made 4 offers, 7 seats for 2nd and also made 4 offers, 12 seats for 3rd and already made 2 offers, etc. Multiple offers in all grades last year as well. Maury is harder to get into, but last year they made 15 offers for K and 7 for 1st. Now, this isn't to say that any one particular kid will definitely get a spot at a particular school, but if you keep trying at multiple schools, chances are it'll work out. You're being ridiculous when you say "a few OOB kids" and "not common at all". Try checking the data before you assert yourself. This site is supposed to be helpful, not mislead people.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/aaron2446/viz/MSDCSeatsandWaitlistOfferData_draft/MSDCPublicDisplay

OP here. None of those schools— Brent, Maury, L-T— have short waitlists. I know because I’m on them. You still have to lick into spots there.

The schools on the Hill with short waitlists are fairly similar to our current school— fine for ECE but issues after that. I’m not interested in trading one such school for another, there is no point.

If you're wanting a school system where you can get into any good school with no luck at all, I'm not sure where you could find that. Definitely not here. But having a short waitlist is not the same thing as it being really hard to get a spot. Sorry you didn't get a good lottery number, but there's a difference between "Can get in even with a terrible number or post-lottery add" and "really hard to get into".

People are trying to help you find a good school that you can get into, but you're defining "good school" as "school with a long waitlist" and if you keep up with that attitude, it might never work out. Last year, Ludlow-Taylor had a 2nd grade waitlist of 17, and made 17 offers. Does that cause you to think it's a bad school?

No, that does not make me think it's a bad school -- I would be over the moon happy if we got into L-T.

But my lottery luck runs such that if they had a waitlist of 17, I'd been spot #17, and then that would be the year they only made 16 offers.

Honestly, this thread is not me asking you to fix my lottery problem. It was really just me venting about the fact that the system feels arbitrary and frustrating, where one family can get lucky in PK3 and other families get unlucky year after year, and that's what dictates whether you can stay in your home. And, oh yeah, all of this is coinciding with market conditions that are throwing up obstacles to us moving, like living in a place with skyrocketing housing prices (except on the kind of housing we currently own) at a time when rates are going up as well.

I'm just complaining. Some people actually have offered useful advice for which I'm grateful, but you're running in circles saying stuff like "Are you saying L-T isn't a good school because they cleared their 2nd grade waitlist last year?" and not listening when I explain that of course it's a good school, it's just that we're not on the waitlist for 2nd and the odds of them clearing their waitlist this year are extremely slim and we are literally in the last spot on their waitlist, so there is virtually no point in discussing whether I would accept a spot there (I would) since I almost certainly won't be offered a spot.

OP, I'm just here to say we're in the same boat and I totally commiserate with you. We struck out at the PK-3/4 lottery, and we're resigned to moving assuming the K lottery goes poorly as well. It sucks because we like our home, I love being a few blocks from the metro, and I love being in DC. We're a 1 car family and I don't like driving, so moving to the burbs would be hard, but moving to a good school district in DC to get us through high school will cost us a fortune if we want the same amount of space we have now. It also sucks because we live in a condo and will probably make nothing from selling, even though we've been here for 6 years. All the advice to "rent out your place and move back the next year" is ridiculous for us because we can't even rent out our place to cover our mortgage. So just know that you're not alone in your frustration!

We struck out in the lottery every year until 5th grade, so my child went to Watkins. He then went to BASIS and was perfectly prepared for it by Watkins. Looking back, I’m glad we struck out, because not only did Watkins serve him well; he made a fantastic group of friends there, many who went to BASIS with him in 5th, and all of them are doing well. Sometimes people make it seem like schools are a lot worse than they really are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
We struck out in the lottery every year until 5th grade, so my child went to Watkins. He then went to BASIS and was perfectly prepared for it by Watkins. Looking back, I’m glad we struck out, because not only did Watkins serve him well; he made a fantastic group of friends there, many who went to BASIS with him in 5th, and all of them are doing well. Sometimes people make it seem like schools are a lot worse than they really are.

I agree. Many kids end up just fine - despite our worry. I wish I could go back in time and relax a bit. I definitely got some gray hairs during lottery and decision time.

That said, I do feel for the people that repeatedly get poor performing schools in the lottery. All kids - regardless of socioeconomic status should go to a “quality” (effective learning environment) school.

Seems like we (schools, parents, government, etc) could have come up with better solutions by now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are making the mistake of assuming that popularity = quality. The pool of kids looking to lottery and change schools starts to shrink after K. There start to be spaces in many of the Hill area elementary schools (for example) in mid-elementary grades. There are some reasonably good DCPS elementary schools that do not necessarily get much attention OOB.

No, you don’t understand school differences. There is a huge difference between Capitol Hill DCPS elementary schools and most other DCPS elementary schools EOTP. That difference, which is the most important, is academic performance. CH schools overwhelmingly at and above grade level, 60-89%. Non CH around 30% so overwhelmingly below grade level.

School in CH start losing kids after 4th because of the middle school feed due to Latin and Basis. Retention of families in K-3rd is high. Non CH schools EOTP, in contrast, start losing kids much earlier like K-1st. By 2nd, it’s stark. It’s not due to the middle school feed. It’s because families are not happy like OP and they are looking for a better school and trying to trade up.

There might be an exception in 1 or 2 grade where the CH schools may have space to take a few OOB kids but not common at all. You never see CH schools on short waitlist. Where other many non CH schools you can pretty much get in any grade 1st and up and on the short waitlist almost every year.

And no I’m not in CH. I’m in the other group.

You are massively overstating this. Just this year already, Brent offered 18 spots in the K lottery and has already made 22 offers for K on top of that. Last year Brent made 34 offers for 2nd grade. Ludlow-Taylor offered 4 seats for 1st and also made 4 offers, 7 seats for 2nd and also made 4 offers, 12 seats for 3rd and already made 2 offers, etc. Multiple offers in all grades last year as well. Maury is harder to get into, but last year they made 15 offers for K and 7 for 1st. Now, this isn't to say that any one particular kid will definitely get a spot at a particular school, but if you keep trying at multiple schools, chances are it'll work out. You're being ridiculous when you say "a few OOB kids" and "not common at all". Try checking the data before you assert yourself. This site is supposed to be helpful, not mislead people.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/aaron2446/viz/MSDCSeatsandWaitlistOfferData_draft/MSDCPublicDisplay

OP here. None of those schools— Brent, Maury, L-T— have short waitlists. I know because I’m on them. You still have to lick into spots there.

The schools on the Hill with short waitlists are fairly similar to our current school— fine for ECE but issues after that. I’m not interested in trading one such school for another, there is no point.

If you're wanting a school system where you can get into any good school with no luck at all, I'm not sure where you could find that. Definitely not here. But having a short waitlist is not the same thing as it being really hard to get a spot. Sorry you didn't get a good lottery number, but there's a difference between "Can get in even with a terrible number or post-lottery add" and "really hard to get into".

People are trying to help you find a good school that you can get into, but you're defining "good school" as "school with a long waitlist" and if you keep up with that attitude, it might never work out. Last year, Ludlow-Taylor had a 2nd grade waitlist of 17, and made 17 offers. Does that cause you to think it's a bad school?

No, that does not make me think it's a bad school -- I would be over the moon happy if we got into L-T.

But my lottery luck runs such that if they had a waitlist of 17, I'd been spot #17, and then that would be the year they only made 16 offers.

Honestly, this thread is not me asking you to fix my lottery problem. It was really just me venting about the fact that the system feels arbitrary and frustrating, where one family can get lucky in PK3 and other families get unlucky year after year, and that's what dictates whether you can stay in your home. And, oh yeah, all of this is coinciding with market conditions that are throwing up obstacles to us moving, like living in a place with skyrocketing housing prices (except on the kind of housing we currently own) at a time when rates are going up as well.

I'm just complaining. Some people actually have offered useful advice for which I'm grateful, but you're running in circles saying stuff like "Are you saying L-T isn't a good school because they cleared their 2nd grade waitlist last year?" and not listening when I explain that of course it's a good school, it's just that we're not on the waitlist for 2nd and the odds of them clearing their waitlist this year are extremely slim and we are literally in the last spot on their waitlist, so there is virtually no point in discussing whether I would accept a spot there (I would) since I almost certainly won't be offered a spot.

OP, I'm just here to say we're in the same boat and I totally commiserate with you. We struck out at the PK-3/4 lottery, and we're resigned to moving assuming the K lottery goes poorly as well. It sucks because we like our home, I love being a few blocks from the metro, and I love being in DC. We're a 1 car family and I don't like driving, so moving to the burbs would be hard, but moving to a good school district in DC to get us through high school will cost us a fortune if we want the same amount of space we have now. It also sucks because we live in a condo and will probably make nothing from selling, even though we've been here for 6 years. All the advice to "rent out your place and move back the next year" is ridiculous for us because we can't even rent out our place to cover our mortgage. So just know that you're not alone in your frustration!

We struck out in the lottery every year until 5th grade, so my child went to Watkins. He then went to BASIS and was perfectly prepared for it by Watkins. Looking back, I’m glad we struck out, because not only did Watkins serve him well; he made a fantastic group of friends there, many who went to BASIS with him in 5th, and all of them are doing well. Sometimes people make it seem like schools are a lot worse than they really are.

Would you have been willing to send your kid to SH?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are making the mistake of assuming that popularity = quality. The pool of kids looking to lottery and change schools starts to shrink after K. There start to be spaces in many of the Hill area elementary schools (for example) in mid-elementary grades. There are some reasonably good DCPS elementary schools that do not necessarily get much attention OOB.

No, you don’t understand school differences. There is a huge difference between Capitol Hill DCPS elementary schools and most other DCPS elementary schools EOTP. That difference, which is the most important, is academic performance. CH schools overwhelmingly at and above grade level, 60-89%. Non CH around 30% so overwhelmingly below grade level.

School in CH start losing kids after 4th because of the middle school feed due to Latin and Basis. Retention of families in K-3rd is high. Non CH schools EOTP, in contrast, start losing kids much earlier like K-1st. By 2nd, it’s stark. It’s not due to the middle school feed. It’s because families are not happy like OP and they are looking for a better school and trying to trade up.

There might be an exception in 1 or 2 grade where the CH schools may have space to take a few OOB kids but not common at all. You never see CH schools on short waitlist. Where other many non CH schools you can pretty much get in any grade 1st and up and on the short waitlist almost every year.

And no I’m not in CH. I’m in the other group.

You are massively overstating this. Just this year already, Brent offered 18 spots in the K lottery and has already made 22 offers for K on top of that. Last year Brent made 34 offers for 2nd grade. Ludlow-Taylor offered 4 seats for 1st and also made 4 offers, 7 seats for 2nd and also made 4 offers, 12 seats for 3rd and already made 2 offers, etc. Multiple offers in all grades last year as well. Maury is harder to get into, but last year they made 15 offers for K and 7 for 1st. Now, this isn't to say that any one particular kid will definitely get a spot at a particular school, but if you keep trying at multiple schools, chances are it'll work out. You're being ridiculous when you say "a few OOB kids" and "not common at all". Try checking the data before you assert yourself. This site is supposed to be helpful, not mislead people.

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/aaron2446/viz/MSDCSeatsandWaitlistOfferData_draft/MSDCPublicDisplay

OP here. None of those schools— Brent, Maury, L-T— have short waitlists. I know because I’m on them. You still have to lick into spots there.

The schools on the Hill with short waitlists are fairly similar to our current school— fine for ECE but issues after that. I’m not interested in trading one such school for another, there is no point.

If you're wanting a school system where you can get into any good school with no luck at all, I'm not sure where you could find that. Definitely not here. But having a short waitlist is not the same thing as it being really hard to get a spot. Sorry you didn't get a good lottery number, but there's a difference between "Can get in even with a terrible number or post-lottery add" and "really hard to get into".

People are trying to help you find a good school that you can get into, but you're defining "good school" as "school with a long waitlist" and if you keep up with that attitude, it might never work out. Last year, Ludlow-Taylor had a 2nd grade waitlist of 17, and made 17 offers. Does that cause you to think it's a bad school?

No, that does not make me think it's a bad school -- I would be over the moon happy if we got into L-T.

But my lottery luck runs such that if they had a waitlist of 17, I'd been spot #17, and then that would be the year they only made 16 offers.

Honestly, this thread is not me asking you to fix my lottery problem. It was really just me venting about the fact that the system feels arbitrary and frustrating, where one family can get lucky in PK3 and other families get unlucky year after year, and that's what dictates whether you can stay in your home. And, oh yeah, all of this is coinciding with market conditions that are throwing up obstacles to us moving, like living in a place with skyrocketing housing prices (except on the kind of housing we currently own) at a time when rates are going up as well.

I'm just complaining. Some people actually have offered useful advice for which I'm grateful, but you're running in circles saying stuff like "Are you saying L-T isn't a good school because they cleared their 2nd grade waitlist last year?" and not listening when I explain that of course it's a good school, it's just that we're not on the waitlist for 2nd and the odds of them clearing their waitlist this year are extremely slim and we are literally in the last spot on their waitlist, so there is virtually no point in discussing whether I would accept a spot there (I would) since I almost certainly won't be offered a spot.

OP, I'm just here to say we're in the same boat and I totally commiserate with you. We struck out at the PK-3/4 lottery, and we're resigned to moving assuming the K lottery goes poorly as well. It sucks because we like our home, I love being a few blocks from the metro, and I love being in DC. We're a 1 car family and I don't like driving, so moving to the burbs would be hard, but moving to a good school district in DC to get us through high school will cost us a fortune if we want the same amount of space we have now. It also sucks because we live in a condo and will probably make nothing from selling, even though we've been here for 6 years. All the advice to "rent out your place and move back the next year" is ridiculous for us because we can't even rent out our place to cover our mortgage. So just know that you're not alone in your frustration!

We struck out in the lottery every year until 5th grade, so my child went to Watkins. He then went to BASIS and was perfectly prepared for it by Watkins. Looking back, I’m glad we struck out, because not only did Watkins serve him well; he made a fantastic group of friends there, many who went to BASIS with him in 5th, and all of them are doing well. Sometimes people make it seem like schools are a lot worse than they really are.

Would you have been willing to send your kid to SH?

I have the same question for PP! Good for you that you got your kid into BASIS, but some of us don’t want to be forced to lottery every year and keep hoping that maybe by 5th grade, we will finally get lucky.

[Anonymous]

Does the short waitlist data help you out, OP?