Why is the GT program in APS so anemic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it interesting that so many parents think it is the school’s job to meet every need of their child. If my kid was doing well in school but had a specific interest, I would be the one exploring and growing that, be it in math or gardening or recycling or chemistry. I don’t expect the school to solve everything for my kid, gifted or struggling. If my kid is having difficulty in a math concept, I’ll get a tutor or buy a workbook and practice with them at home because I understand that I am a partner in my child’s education and a school with 25 kids is not a setting where every need of every child can be met.

Stop complaining and start doing. If you’re on this forum it’s likely you can afford it.

Well, the state of Virginia certainly expects the school to help! Virginia schools are required to have a gifted program (and all schools in the US are required to offer special education services, obviously).

If APS just said "no, we do not have a gifted program," obviously I wouldn't be complaining about the gifted program. But they do have one, and it could be better.

When can a public school program NOT do better? Name one. APS doesn’t overpromise what its gifted program is. It’s a small program that mostly gives resources to teachers for students to have enrichment and clusters them together in classrooms for peer engagement. That’s pretty much it. If you want more then go where there is more. Or give your kid more at home.

My issue with APS isn’t that they overpromised. It’s that it doesn’t challenge the kids enough. And, and I mentioned in another comment, giving him a lot of outside enrichment would exacerbate the problem of boredom.

Also, it seems like people who say that a parent is responsible to help kids who are bored or struggling don’t seem to care much about the education of kids whose parents, for whatever reason, aren’t going to help their kids outside of school. Really, you could argue that since it’s your kid, education is your responsibility, not the responsibility of the government, so let’s get rid of public schools altogether. But we don’t do that for all sorts of reasons.

I am very happy to give my kid outside enrichment. I homeschooled for a couple of years and I absolutely loved it. But my child comes home from school exhausted because sitting around doing boring work all day is taxing! I’m not going to make my child sit and so more work after school just so he can go to school and be even more bored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster whose kids went to TJ. My point is APS did give my kids a solid MS experience, otherwise they wouldn’t have made the TJ cut -the elementary experience was not bad -but we did supplement because our kids were math oriented and we could afford to give them a little extra, not a lot, though, but enough they got into higher level classes in middle school. So, not a bad APS experience. Quite honestly, I felt that elementary was more about the social aspect of growing up than about a “rigorous academic” experience. I am glad we didn’t push them early in life, except support the areas they liked. Things seem more competitive now, though, good luck to all of you.

Arlington has a certain number of seats and those seats are filled by kids from Arlington MS. Your kids were competing with other Arlington kids, not FCPS or Loudoun MS kids. If they did well at TJ that is a different story but they did not have to compete against anyone other then APS MS kids for admission.

The allocation by MS is a recent change to the admissions process. Prior to that, kids were all competing against each other and APS had a max # of admissions. They weren’t evaluated separately. They didn’t always have the max # each year, it depended on the applicants.

The PP point was your kids maybe were prepared by APS standard in MS (and you enriched in elementary which I suspect was a larger part), they just had to compete against other APS MS students for the APS TJ slots. So you really don’t know if the preparation was really that good or just TJ is good at leveling from a diverse income class (which I’m sure they are). Fewer parents enrich in APS at all; that’s why all the AOPS etc are not in Arlington, so you had little competition. APS parents are known as more chill, more sports focused that Fairfax where you have TJ prep academies like Sunshine.

It wasn’t a separate pool.

It is a separate pool. Kids in APS compete against kids in APS not kids in FCPS. There are a set number of seats that APS is allowed to fill.

Not a separate pool. There is a max number of seats but the TJ admissions office doesn’t have to fill them.

There is a separate pool now and there was before the admissions protocol changed. APS had a certain number of seats it could fill. APS did not have to fill those seats. If those seats were not filled by APS, kids from the FCPS wait list filled those seats. APS kids have to meet the same admissions requirements. In the past that meant that they had to take the Quant test and score a certain level. They had to have teacher referrals, and whatever else was a part of the application process. Today that means they need to have completed Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade, completed Honors Math and Science in 7th and 8th grade as well as one other core class. Kids have to have a 3.5 GPA. If there are more APS kids who apply and meet the admissions requirements, then selections are made to fill the APS seats. If there are not enough APS students who are interested in TJ and meet those qualifications, then the seats will be filled by FCPS kids on the wait list.

I am sure that plenty of APS kids attend TJ and are successful there. It is not like the standards are different for attending across the different Counties.

Kids who were not in AAP in FCPS can end up at TJ and they can be successful as well. AAP is not a requirement to do well at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster whose kids went to TJ. My point is APS did give my kids a solid MS experience, otherwise they wouldn’t have made the TJ cut -the elementary experience was not bad -but we did supplement because our kids were math oriented and we could afford to give them a little extra, not a lot, though, but enough they got into higher level classes in middle school. So, not a bad APS experience. Quite honestly, I felt that elementary was more about the social aspect of growing up than about a “rigorous academic” experience. I am glad we didn’t push them early in life, except support the areas they liked. Things seem more competitive now, though, good luck to all of you.

Arlington has a certain number of seats and those seats are filled by kids from Arlington MS. Your kids were competing with other Arlington kids, not FCPS or Loudoun MS kids. If they did well at TJ that is a different story but they did not have to compete against anyone other then APS MS kids for admission.

The allocation by MS is a recent change to the admissions process. Prior to that, kids were all competing against each other and APS had a max # of admissions. They weren’t evaluated separately. They didn’t always have the max # each year, it depended on the applicants.

The PP point was your kids maybe were prepared by APS standard in MS (and you enriched in elementary which I suspect was a larger part), they just had to compete against other APS MS students for the APS TJ slots. So you really don’t know if the preparation was really that good or just TJ is good at leveling from a diverse income class (which I’m sure they are). Fewer parents enrich in APS at all; that’s why all the AOPS etc are not in Arlington, so you had little competition. APS parents are known as more chill, more sports focused that Fairfax where you have TJ prep academies like Sunshine.

It wasn’t a separate pool.

It is a separate pool. Kids in APS compete against kids in APS not kids in FCPS. There are a set number of seats that APS is allowed to fill.

Not a separate pool. There is a max number of seats but the TJ admissions office doesn’t have to fill them.

There is a separate pool now and there was before the admissions protocol changed. APS had a certain number of seats it could fill. APS did not have to fill those seats. If those seats were not filled by APS, kids from the FCPS wait list filled those seats. APS kids have to meet the same admissions requirements. In the past that meant that they had to take the Quant test and score a certain level. They had to have teacher referrals, and whatever else was a part of the application process. Today that means they need to have completed Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade, completed Honors Math and Science in 7th and 8th grade as well as one other core class. Kids have to have a 3.5 GPA. If there are more APS kids who apply and meet the admissions requirements, then selections are made to fill the APS seats. If there are not enough APS students who are interested in TJ and meet those qualifications, then the seats will be filled by FCPS kids on the wait list.

I am sure that plenty of APS kids attend TJ and are successful there. It is not like the standards are different for attending across the different Counties.

Kids who were not in AAP in FCPS can end up at TJ and they can be successful as well. AAP is not a requirement to do well at TJ.

APS didn’t do the admissions. The TJ admissions group did and it wasn’t a separate pool before. Now it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster whose kids went to TJ. My point is APS did give my kids a solid MS experience, otherwise they wouldn’t have made the TJ cut -the elementary experience was not bad -but we did supplement because our kids were math oriented and we could afford to give them a little extra, not a lot, though, but enough they got into higher level classes in middle school. So, not a bad APS experience. Quite honestly, I felt that elementary was more about the social aspect of growing up than about a “rigorous academic” experience. I am glad we didn’t push them early in life, except support the areas they liked. Things seem more competitive now, though, good luck to all of you.

Arlington has a certain number of seats and those seats are filled by kids from Arlington MS. Your kids were competing with other Arlington kids, not FCPS or Loudoun MS kids. If they did well at TJ that is a different story but they did not have to compete against anyone other then APS MS kids for admission.

The allocation by MS is a recent change to the admissions process. Prior to that, kids were all competing against each other and APS had a max # of admissions. They weren’t evaluated separately. They didn’t always have the max # each year, it depended on the applicants.

The PP point was your kids maybe were prepared by APS standard in MS (and you enriched in elementary which I suspect was a larger part), they just had to compete against other APS MS students for the APS TJ slots. So you really don’t know if the preparation was really that good or just TJ is good at leveling from a diverse income class (which I’m sure they are). Fewer parents enrich in APS at all; that’s why all the AOPS etc are not in Arlington, so you had little competition. APS parents are known as more chill, more sports focused that Fairfax where you have TJ prep academies like Sunshine.

It wasn’t a separate pool.

It is a separate pool. Kids in APS compete against kids in APS not kids in FCPS. There are a set number of seats that APS is allowed to fill.

Not a separate pool. There is a max number of seats but the TJ admissions office doesn’t have to fill them.

There is a separate pool now and there was before the admissions protocol changed. APS had a certain number of seats it could fill. APS did not have to fill those seats. If those seats were not filled by APS, kids from the FCPS wait list filled those seats. APS kids have to meet the same admissions requirements. In the past that meant that they had to take the Quant test and score a certain level. They had to have teacher referrals, and whatever else was a part of the application process. Today that means they need to have completed Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade, completed Honors Math and Science in 7th and 8th grade as well as one other core class. Kids have to have a 3.5 GPA. If there are more APS kids who apply and meet the admissions requirements, then selections are made to fill the APS seats. If there are not enough APS students who are interested in TJ and meet those qualifications, then the seats will be filled by FCPS kids on the wait list.

I am sure that plenty of APS kids attend TJ and are successful there. It is not like the standards are different for attending across the different Counties.

Kids who were not in AAP in FCPS can end up at TJ and they can be successful as well. AAP is not a requirement to do well at TJ.

APS 7th and 8th don’t have honors science do they?

So is it lottery now; once you make the minimum standards, anyone can get in rather than the highest score wins? That was changed recently?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don’t have GT.

This.

Virginia has - at the state level - a formal definition (including minimum requirements) for a public school G&T program.

I have not seen APS claim they meet those requirements, and I very much doubt that they do. FWIW, I don’t think Fairfax’s AAP meets the state G&T requirements either, hence their use of the term AAP. Several public school systems elsewhere in Virginia had been claiming to offer G&T programs, but were publicly told by the state to drop the claim of “G&T program” for not meeting those minimum requirements.

It would be nice if APS did offer a G&T program, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Virginia schools are required to have a gifted program (and all schools in the US are required to offer special education services, obviously).

I do not believe the above is really correct. I believe the requirement is for an “appropriate” education, with the quoted word deliberately not defined.

Certainly there are rural public school systems in Virginia without significant differentiation, enrichment, or any semblance of a G&T program.

[Anonymous]

I’m hoping APS follows through to offer “honors” middle school classes before coming up with some lame equity excuse. I guess APS has dropped honors for 6 th grade and changed the meaning of honors to more in depth studies. (Why would my kid willing want to take on more work that his classmates if the class is not truly an honors class?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t have GT.

This.

Virginia has - at the state level - a formal definition (including minimum requirements) for a public school G&T program.

I have not seen APS claim they meet those requirements, and I very much doubt that they do. FWIW, I don’t think Fairfax’s AAP meets the state G&T requirements either, hence their use of the term AAP. Several public school systems elsewhere in Virginia had been claiming to offer G&T programs, but were publicly told by the state to drop the claim of “G&T program” for not meeting those minimum requirements.

It would be nice if APS did offer a G&T program, IMHO.

While I haven't read the FCPS Local Plan or the APS Local Plan, they both are GT programs and probably meet the state requirements. (The FCPS program changed the name for PC reasons and to indicate that it serves both GT as well as academically advanced students, not just GT students. They are calling it a GT+others program, not a GT-only program.)

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/teaching-learning-assessment/specialized-instruction/gifted-education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster whose kids went to TJ. My point is APS did give my kids a solid MS experience, otherwise they wouldn’t have made the TJ cut -the elementary experience was not bad -but we did supplement because our kids were math oriented and we could afford to give them a little extra, not a lot, though, but enough they got into higher level classes in middle school. So, not a bad APS experience. Quite honestly, I felt that elementary was more about the social aspect of growing up than about a “rigorous academic” experience. I am glad we didn’t push them early in life, except support the areas they liked. Things seem more competitive now, though, good luck to all of you.

Arlington has a certain number of seats and those seats are filled by kids from Arlington MS. Your kids were competing with other Arlington kids, not FCPS or Loudoun MS kids. If they did well at TJ that is a different story but they did not have to compete against anyone other then APS MS kids for admission.

The allocation by MS is a recent change to the admissions process. Prior to that, kids were all competing against each other and APS had a max # of admissions. They weren’t evaluated separately. They didn’t always have the max # each year, it depended on the applicants.

The PP point was your kids maybe were prepared by APS standard in MS (and you enriched in elementary which I suspect was a larger part), they just had to compete against other APS MS students for the APS TJ slots. So you really don’t know if the preparation was really that good or just TJ is good at leveling from a diverse income class (which I’m sure they are). Fewer parents enrich in APS at all; that’s why all the AOPS etc are not in Arlington, so you had little competition. APS parents are known as more chill, more sports focused that Fairfax where you have TJ prep academies like Sunshine.

It wasn’t a separate pool.

It is a separate pool. Kids in APS compete against kids in APS not kids in FCPS. There are a set number of seats that APS is allowed to fill.

Not a separate pool. There is a max number of seats but the TJ admissions office doesn’t have to fill them.

There is a separate pool now and there was before the admissions protocol changed. APS had a certain number of seats it could fill. APS did not have to fill those seats. If those seats were not filled by APS, kids from the FCPS wait list filled those seats. APS kids have to meet the same admissions requirements. In the past that meant that they had to take the Quant test and score a certain level. They had to have teacher referrals, and whatever else was a part of the application process. Today that means they need to have completed Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade, completed Honors Math and Science in 7th and 8th grade as well as one other core class. Kids have to have a 3.5 GPA. If there are more APS kids who apply and meet the admissions requirements, then selections are made to fill the APS seats. If there are not enough APS students who are interested in TJ and meet those qualifications, then the seats will be filled by FCPS kids on the wait list.

I am sure that plenty of APS kids attend TJ and are successful there. It is not like the standards are different for attending across the different Counties.

Kids who were not in AAP in FCPS can end up at TJ and they can be successful as well. AAP is not a requirement to do well at TJ.

APS 7th and 8th don’t have honors science do they?

So is it lottery now; once you make the minimum standards, anyone can get in rather than the highest score wins? That was changed recently?

The honors classes are a requirement if your school offers them. APS does not (currently). It’s not a lottery— kids have to sit for a problem solving essay and write something else— these things replaced the admissions test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m hoping APS follows through to offer “honors” middle school classes before coming up with some lame equity excuse. I guess APS has dropped honors for 6 th grade and changed the meaning of honors to more in depth studies. (Why would my kid willing want to take on more work that his classmates if the class is not truly an honors class?)

Some kids are intrinsically motivated to learn and they choose to do the extension/alternate work.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know when to expect cogat scores to be posted? We got an email today they were coming

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know when to expect cogat scores to be posted? We got an email today they were coming

Who sent the email? We haven't heard anything.

I think they're posted by the central office, so it happens whenever they get around to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know when to expect cogat scores to be posted? We got an email today they were coming

Who sent the email? We haven't heard anything.

I think they're posted by the central office, so it happens whenever they get around to it.

Our school sent it out to explain what it was, but didn't indicate timing.

[Anonymous]

There has been radio silence from our school. Nothing. It’s 2022. Why can’t we have test scores in a reasonable time frame? This is patently ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the poster whose kids went to TJ. My point is APS did give my kids a solid MS experience, otherwise they wouldn’t have made the TJ cut -the elementary experience was not bad -but we did supplement because our kids were math oriented and we could afford to give them a little extra, not a lot, though, but enough they got into higher level classes in middle school. So, not a bad APS experience. Quite honestly, I felt that elementary was more about the social aspect of growing up than about a “rigorous academic” experience. I am glad we didn’t push them early in life, except support the areas they liked. Things seem more competitive now, though, good luck to all of you.

Arlington has a certain number of seats and those seats are filled by kids from Arlington MS. Your kids were competing with other Arlington kids, not FCPS or Loudoun MS kids. If they did well at TJ that is a different story but they did not have to compete against anyone other then APS MS kids for admission.

The allocation by MS is a recent change to the admissions process. Prior to that, kids were all competing against each other and APS had a max # of admissions. They weren’t evaluated separately. They didn’t always have the max # each year, it depended on the applicants.

The PP point was your kids maybe were prepared by APS standard in MS (and you enriched in elementary which I suspect was a larger part), they just had to compete against other APS MS students for the APS TJ slots. So you really don’t know if the preparation was really that good or just TJ is good at leveling from a diverse income class (which I’m sure they are). Fewer parents enrich in APS at all; that’s why all the AOPS etc are not in Arlington, so you had little competition. APS parents are known as more chill, more sports focused that Fairfax where you have TJ prep academies like Sunshine.

It wasn’t a separate pool.

It is a separate pool. Kids in APS compete against kids in APS not kids in FCPS. There are a set number of seats that APS is allowed to fill.

Not a separate pool. There is a max number of seats but the TJ admissions office doesn’t have to fill them.

There is a separate pool now and there was before the admissions protocol changed. APS had a certain number of seats it could fill. APS did not have to fill those seats. If those seats were not filled by APS, kids from the FCPS wait list filled those seats. APS kids have to meet the same admissions requirements. In the past that meant that they had to take the Quant test and score a certain level. They had to have teacher referrals, and whatever else was a part of the application process. Today that means they need to have completed Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade, completed Honors Math and Science in 7th and 8th grade as well as one other core class. Kids have to have a 3.5 GPA. If there are more APS kids who apply and meet the admissions requirements, then selections are made to fill the APS seats. If there are not enough APS students who are interested in TJ and meet those qualifications, then the seats will be filled by FCPS kids on the wait list.

I am sure that plenty of APS kids attend TJ and are successful there. It is not like the standards are different for attending across the different Counties.

Kids who were not in AAP in FCPS can end up at TJ and they can be successful as well. AAP is not a requirement to do well at TJ.

APS 7th and 8th don’t have honors science do they?

So is it lottery now; once you make the minimum standards, anyone can get in rather than the highest score wins? That was changed recently?

The honors classes are a requirement if your school offers them. APS does not (currently). It’s not a lottery— kids have to sit for a problem solving essay and write something else— these things replaced the admissions test.

Problem solving essay? So it’s subjective scoring, so while in theory FFX students could outscore APS they wont because that would cause a stink about the seats.