What would cause someone from a normal background to become a religious zealot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ You're avoiding the question. Are you trying to suggest it could have have happened just like Paul said it did?

It’s a question nobody can answer and definitely no professional would answer. You can pretend it’s possible from your agenda based viewpoint but that’s absolutely your uneducated opinion. Why would you waste your time, other than it’s not valuable?

Feel free to diagnosis everyone though. Perhaps diagnose yourself, too!

Of course they can: it didn't happen. So that leaves Paul was delusional or he was just making it up.

NP. Or, it was God entering Paul’s life in a way that changed the course of one religion and of history. I’m not a huge fan of Paul, but you go straight to ruling out divine intervention and that only reflects your personal biases.

I’m with the mental health professional—you have zero qualifications or information to diagnose someone who lived 2,000 years ago. Although I’m sure tempted to diagnose someone who obsesses about Paul—and who obsesses about other people being religious on a religion forum—on a daily and hourly basis.

someone said Paul may have been mentally ill. No one claimed he was. Or maybe just an extreme religious zealot. Another possibility is that Jesus really did speak to him by name and he did go up to heaven and come back. I'.m aware some people believe that really did happen, and that's fine if you wan to believe that.

As far as obsessing, I didn't even think of it until the poster at 11/23/2021 19:19 asked about Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. Have you read the whole thread?

You clearly ruled out divine intervention in your post two above your most recent post, so let’s stop with that debate.

So, you appear to admit you’re on this forum 24/7, reading entire threads like this one, as a nonbeliever. Would you say you have intrusive thoughts about religion, or even that you’re obsessed? Do you have any other outlets and relationships, or does trolling a religion forum on a mom’s website provide the most satisfaction you’ll get today?

+1

It’s very sad. I genuinely mean that.

DP here. Not sad at all. It's someone expressing their opinion on a religious topic in a religious forum. It's exactly what this place is for.

Hopefully you see the irony of saying a topic you hold of paramount importance can't be just as important to someone who believes differently than you do. Maybe that crosses over from irony to hypocrisy?

Asking someone if the “hear voices” and insinuating they are mentally ill is not expressing opinion on religion. You are a gaslighter that tries to sound reasonable, but that’s not respectful or reasonable discussion.

I did not ask that question, and I understand you may find the question insulting because it conflicts with your deeply held beliefs, but I find it a reasonable one myself. I am assuming you would also if we were speaking of the leader of Heaven's Gate or Joseph Smith.

Maybe a better way to ask the question: how can we tell someone who is genuinely being spoken to by a deity from someone with a mental illness? How do we know which? Can you answer that?

If we can't know the difference, then it is reasonable for people to assume either position, and seemingly more reasonable to assume the one that is common and for which there is mountains of evidence, right?

BTW, Are you the same person who mis-uses "gaslighting" in the college forum? That's not what the term means and you should look it up.

Gaslighting is used correctly to refer to you and your comments.

“Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes,” said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky. “[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself.”

“People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives,” Mogilevsky said. “Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way.”
Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn’t mean they’re a manifestation of mental illness.

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it’s vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.
“Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons,” said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. “When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness].”
Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

Religion not a form of mental illness—it’s actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S. Religion is many things—a famously indefinable concept—but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them,” said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn’s Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. “If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness.”
“In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion,” Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all—yes, atheists too—regularly engage in irrational thinking,” said Mogilevsky. “If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives.”

People here, especially you, are engaged in agenda based and frankly ignorant discussion about things (mental illness and religion) that obviously they know very little about. Op should be embarrassed and stop stalking that man.

First “gaslighting” has a meaning and it is not simply used to discredit someone’s comment. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. If you don’t mind using a term incorrectly that is your prerogative but it does not communicate what you want.

Your quotes don’t answer the question, in fact they totally avoid it. The question was explicitly about someone who believes they hear voices from a deity. How can you tell the difference between someone who is and someone who has a mental illness?

The point is if you can’t tell the difference then neither position can be disproved.

You will continue to type the same words and they will continue to mean nothing. Enjoy doing so. It seems that is what you do, and that, though sad, is your life.

Now someone is diagnosing Paul with epilepsy.

I am fully convinced that people read things on google and think that what they read gives them medical credentials. And not only is that odd, they use these google medical credentials with great assurance and confidence.

Can you imagine IRL how people would move rapidly away from you for doing so? Try to and save yourself from this fake life. It’s not real even though you cling to it.

So I guess it is clear you will not answer the question: How can you tell the difference between someone who is hearing voices from a deity and someone who has mental illness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ You're avoiding the question. Are you trying to suggest it could have have happened just like Paul said it did?

It’s a question nobody can answer and definitely no professional would answer. You can pretend it’s possible from your agenda based viewpoint but that’s absolutely your uneducated opinion. Why would you waste your time, other than it’s not valuable?

Feel free to diagnosis everyone though. Perhaps diagnose yourself, too!

Of course they can: it didn't happen. So that leaves Paul was delusional or he was just making it up.

NP. Or, it was God entering Paul’s life in a way that changed the course of one religion and of history. I’m not a huge fan of Paul, but you go straight to ruling out divine intervention and that only reflects your personal biases.

I’m with the mental health professional—you have zero qualifications or information to diagnose someone who lived 2,000 years ago. Although I’m sure tempted to diagnose someone who obsesses about Paul—and who obsesses about other people being religious on a religion forum—on a daily and hourly basis.

someone said Paul may have been mentally ill. No one claimed he was. Or maybe just an extreme religious zealot. Another possibility is that Jesus really did speak to him by name and he did go up to heaven and come back. I'.m aware some people believe that really did happen, and that's fine if you wan to believe that.

As far as obsessing, I didn't even think of it until the poster at 11/23/2021 19:19 asked about Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. Have you read the whole thread?

You clearly ruled out divine intervention in your post two above your most recent post, so let’s stop with that debate.

So, you appear to admit you’re on this forum 24/7, reading entire threads like this one, as a nonbeliever. Would you say you have intrusive thoughts about religion, or even that you’re obsessed? Do you have any other outlets and relationships, or does trolling a religion forum on a mom’s website provide the most satisfaction you’ll get today?

+1

It’s very sad. I genuinely mean that.

DP here. Not sad at all. It's someone expressing their opinion on a religious topic in a religious forum. It's exactly what this place is for.

Hopefully you see the irony of saying a topic you hold of paramount importance can't be just as important to someone who believes differently than you do. Maybe that crosses over from irony to hypocrisy?

Asking someone if the “hear voices” and insinuating they are mentally ill is not expressing opinion on religion. You are a gaslighter that tries to sound reasonable, but that’s not respectful or reasonable discussion.

I did not ask that question, and I understand you may find the question insulting because it conflicts with your deeply held beliefs, but I find it a reasonable one myself. I am assuming you would also if we were speaking of the leader of Heaven's Gate or Joseph Smith.

Maybe a better way to ask the question: how can we tell someone who is genuinely being spoken to by a deity from someone with a mental illness? How do we know which? Can you answer that?

If we can't know the difference, then it is reasonable for people to assume either position, and seemingly more reasonable to assume the one that is common and for which there is mountains of evidence, right?

BTW, Are you the same person who mis-uses "gaslighting" in the college forum? That's not what the term means and you should look it up.

Gaslighting is used correctly to refer to you and your comments.

“Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes,” said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky. “[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself.”

“People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives,” Mogilevsky said. “Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way.”
Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn’t mean they’re a manifestation of mental illness.

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it’s vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.
“Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons,” said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. “When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness].”
Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

Religion not a form of mental illness—it’s actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S. Religion is many things—a famously indefinable concept—but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them,” said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn’s Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. “If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness.”
“In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion,” Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all—yes, atheists too—regularly engage in irrational thinking,” said Mogilevsky. “If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives.”

People here, especially you, are engaged in agenda based and frankly ignorant discussion about things (mental illness and religion) that obviously they know very little about. Op should be embarrassed and stop stalking that man.

First “gaslighting” has a meaning and it is not simply used to discredit someone’s comment. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. If you don’t mind using a term incorrectly that is your prerogative but it does not communicate what you want.

Your quotes don’t answer the question, in fact they totally avoid it. The question was explicitly about someone who believes they hear voices from a deity. How can you tell the difference between someone who is and someone who has a mental illness?

The point is if you can’t tell the difference then neither position can be disproved.

You will continue to type the same words and they will continue to mean nothing. Enjoy doing so. It seems that is what you do, and that, though sad, is your life.

Now someone is diagnosing Paul with epilepsy.

I am fully convinced that people read things on google and think that what they read gives them medical credentials. And not only is that odd, they use these google medical credentials with great assurance and confidence.

Can you imagine IRL how people would move rapidly away from you for doing so? Try to and save yourself from this fake life. It’s not real even though you cling to it.

So I guess it is clear you will not answer the question: How can you tell the difference between someone who is hearing voices from a deity and someone who has mental illness?

People who ONLY hear the voices of dieties are not considered to be mentally ill, because hearing such voices is considered normal in our society.

People who hear voices of dieties and others, who are like dieties only in that they are invisible, are considered to be mentally ill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who ONLY hear the voices of dieties are not considered to be mentally ill, because hearing such voices is considered normal in our society.

People who hear voices of dieties and others, who are like dieties only in that they are invisible, are considered to be mentally ill.

Respectfully, I asked how to tell the difference of the former. Not what they are considered, but how you actually tell the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on the people I know IRL, he either felt guilty about some really bad sh1t he did (drugs, abuse) and couldn’t “fix” himself without external help -or- mental illness.

The United States spent 20 years battling and ultimately being defeated by religious zealots in the form of the Taliban. I would argue that the vast majority were not mentally ill or feeling guilty about anything. Ultimately for them faith was the bigger motivation to put their lives on the line, to sacrifice for a religious Islamic emirate than any purpose we could come up with. They believed God ordained them to win against the secular Americans. They won and now that belief is further reinforced and celebrated.

[Anonymous]

Whiteness.
Raised by Whiteness and now dying by Whiteness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ You're avoiding the question. Are you trying to suggest it could have have happened just like Paul said it did?

It’s a question nobody can answer and definitely no professional would answer. You can pretend it’s possible from your agenda based viewpoint but that’s absolutely your uneducated opinion. Why would you waste your time, other than it’s not valuable?

Feel free to diagnosis everyone though. Perhaps diagnose yourself, too!

Of course they can: it didn't happen. So that leaves Paul was delusional or he was just making it up.

NP. Or, it was God entering Paul’s life in a way that changed the course of one religion and of history. I’m not a huge fan of Paul, but you go straight to ruling out divine intervention and that only reflects your personal biases.

I’m with the mental health professional—you have zero qualifications or information to diagnose someone who lived 2,000 years ago. Although I’m sure tempted to diagnose someone who obsesses about Paul—and who obsesses about other people being religious on a religion forum—on a daily and hourly basis.

someone said Paul may have been mentally ill. No one claimed he was. Or maybe just an extreme religious zealot. Another possibility is that Jesus really did speak to him by name and he did go up to heaven and come back. I'.m aware some people believe that really did happen, and that's fine if you wan to believe that.

As far as obsessing, I didn't even think of it until the poster at 11/23/2021 19:19 asked about Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. Have you read the whole thread?

You clearly ruled out divine intervention in your post two above your most recent post, so let’s stop with that debate.

So, you appear to admit you’re on this forum 24/7, reading entire threads like this one, as a nonbeliever. Would you say you have intrusive thoughts about religion, or even that you’re obsessed? Do you have any other outlets and relationships, or does trolling a religion forum on a mom’s website provide the most satisfaction you’ll get today?

+1

It’s very sad. I genuinely mean that.

DP here. Not sad at all. It's someone expressing their opinion on a religious topic in a religious forum. It's exactly what this place is for.

Hopefully you see the irony of saying a topic you hold of paramount importance can't be just as important to someone who believes differently than you do. Maybe that crosses over from irony to hypocrisy?

Asking someone if the “hear voices” and insinuating they are mentally ill is not expressing opinion on religion. You are a gaslighter that tries to sound reasonable, but that’s not respectful or reasonable discussion.

I did not ask that question, and I understand you may find the question insulting because it conflicts with your deeply held beliefs, but I find it a reasonable one myself. I am assuming you would also if we were speaking of the leader of Heaven's Gate or Joseph Smith.

Maybe a better way to ask the question: how can we tell someone who is genuinely being spoken to by a deity from someone with a mental illness? How do we know which? Can you answer that?

If we can't know the difference, then it is reasonable for people to assume either position, and seemingly more reasonable to assume the one that is common and for which there is mountains of evidence, right?

BTW, Are you the same person who mis-uses "gaslighting" in the college forum? That's not what the term means and you should look it up.

Gaslighting is used correctly to refer to you and your comments.

“Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes,” said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky. “[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself.”

“People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives,” Mogilevsky said. “Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way.”
Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn’t mean they’re a manifestation of mental illness.

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it’s vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.
“Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons,” said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. “When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness].”
Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

Religion not a form of mental illness—it’s actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S. Religion is many things—a famously indefinable concept—but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them,” said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn’s Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. “If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness.”
“In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion,” Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all—yes, atheists too—regularly engage in irrational thinking,” said Mogilevsky. “If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives.”

People here, especially you, are engaged in agenda based and frankly ignorant discussion about things (mental illness and religion) that obviously they know very little about. Op should be embarrassed and stop stalking that man.

First “gaslighting” has a meaning and it is not simply used to discredit someone’s comment. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. If you don’t mind using a term incorrectly that is your prerogative but it does not communicate what you want.

Your quotes don’t answer the question, in fact they totally avoid it. The question was explicitly about someone who believes they hear voices from a deity. How can you tell the difference between someone who is and someone who has a mental illness?

The point is if you can’t tell the difference then neither position can be disproved.

You will continue to type the same words and they will continue to mean nothing. Enjoy doing so. It seems that is what you do, and that, though sad, is your life.

Now someone is diagnosing Paul with epilepsy.

I am fully convinced that people read things on google and think that what they read gives them medical credentials. And not only is that odd, they use these google medical credentials with great assurance and confidence.

Can you imagine IRL how people would move rapidly away from you for doing so? Try to and save yourself from this fake life. It’s not real even though you cling to it.

So I guess it is clear you will not answer the question: How can you tell the difference between someone who is hearing voices from a deity and someone who has mental illness?

People who ONLY hear the voices of dieties are not considered to be mentally ill, because hearing such voices is considered normal in our society.

People who hear voices of dieties and others, who are like dieties only in that they are invisible, are considered to be mentally ill.

You keep posting and asking the same questions, with the same language and wording, post after post and thread after thread. Day after day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ You're avoiding the question. Are you trying to suggest it could have have happened just like Paul said it did?

It’s a question nobody can answer and definitely no professional would answer. You can pretend it’s possible from your agenda based viewpoint but that’s absolutely your uneducated opinion. Why would you waste your time, other than it’s not valuable?

Feel free to diagnosis everyone though. Perhaps diagnose yourself, too!

Of course they can: it didn't happen. So that leaves Paul was delusional or he was just making it up.

NP. Or, it was God entering Paul’s life in a way that changed the course of one religion and of history. I’m not a huge fan of Paul, but you go straight to ruling out divine intervention and that only reflects your personal biases.

I’m with the mental health professional—you have zero qualifications or information to diagnose someone who lived 2,000 years ago. Although I’m sure tempted to diagnose someone who obsesses about Paul—and who obsesses about other people being religious on a religion forum—on a daily and hourly basis.

someone said Paul may have been mentally ill. No one claimed he was. Or maybe just an extreme religious zealot. Another possibility is that Jesus really did speak to him by name and he did go up to heaven and come back. I'.m aware some people believe that really did happen, and that's fine if you wan to believe that.

As far as obsessing, I didn't even think of it until the poster at 11/23/2021 19:19 asked about Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. Have you read the whole thread?

You clearly ruled out divine intervention in your post two above your most recent post, so let’s stop with that debate.

So, you appear to admit you’re on this forum 24/7, reading entire threads like this one, as a nonbeliever. Would you say you have intrusive thoughts about religion, or even that you’re obsessed? Do you have any other outlets and relationships, or does trolling a religion forum on a mom’s website provide the most satisfaction you’ll get today?

+1

It’s very sad. I genuinely mean that.

DP here. Not sad at all. It's someone expressing their opinion on a religious topic in a religious forum. It's exactly what this place is for.

Hopefully you see the irony of saying a topic you hold of paramount importance can't be just as important to someone who believes differently than you do. Maybe that crosses over from irony to hypocrisy?

Asking someone if the “hear voices” and insinuating they are mentally ill is not expressing opinion on religion. You are a gaslighter that tries to sound reasonable, but that’s not respectful or reasonable discussion.

I did not ask that question, and I understand you may find the question insulting because it conflicts with your deeply held beliefs, but I find it a reasonable one myself. I am assuming you would also if we were speaking of the leader of Heaven's Gate or Joseph Smith.

Maybe a better way to ask the question: how can we tell someone who is genuinely being spoken to by a deity from someone with a mental illness? How do we know which? Can you answer that?

If we can't know the difference, then it is reasonable for people to assume either position, and seemingly more reasonable to assume the one that is common and for which there is mountains of evidence, right?

BTW, Are you the same person who mis-uses "gaslighting" in the college forum? That's not what the term means and you should look it up.

Gaslighting is used correctly to refer to you and your comments.

“Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes,” said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky. “[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself.”

“People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives,” Mogilevsky said. “Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way.”
Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn’t mean they’re a manifestation of mental illness.

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it’s vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.
“Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons,” said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. “When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness].”
Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

Religion not a form of mental illness—it’s actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S. Religion is many things—a famously indefinable concept—but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them,” said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn’s Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. “If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness.”
“In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion,” Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all—yes, atheists too—regularly engage in irrational thinking,” said Mogilevsky. “If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives.”

People here, especially you, are engaged in agenda based and frankly ignorant discussion about things (mental illness and religion) that obviously they know very little about. Op should be embarrassed and stop stalking that man.

First “gaslighting” has a meaning and it is not simply used to discredit someone’s comment. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. If you don’t mind using a term incorrectly that is your prerogative but it does not communicate what you want.

Your quotes don’t answer the question, in fact they totally avoid it. The question was explicitly about someone who believes they hear voices from a deity. How can you tell the difference between someone who is and someone who has a mental illness?

The point is if you can’t tell the difference then neither position can be disproved.

You will continue to type the same words and they will continue to mean nothing. Enjoy doing so. It seems that is what you do, and that, though sad, is your life.

Now someone is diagnosing Paul with epilepsy.

I am fully convinced that people read things on google and think that what they read gives them medical credentials. And not only is that odd, they use these google medical credentials with great assurance and confidence.

Can you imagine IRL how people would move rapidly away from you for doing so? Try to and save yourself from this fake life. It’s not real even though you cling to it.

So I guess it is clear you will not answer the question: How can you tell the difference between someone who is hearing voices from a deity and someone who has mental illness?

People who ONLY hear the voices of dieties are not considered to be mentally ill, because hearing such voices is considered normal in our society.

People who hear voices of dieties and others, who are like dieties only in that they are invisible, are considered to be mentally ill.

You keep posting and asking the same questions, with the same language and wording, post after post and thread after thread. Day after day.

Assume you are speaking to me who asked the question not the answer that follows it

Yes and I will keep asking the question until you answer it. But you won’t ever

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ You're avoiding the question. Are you trying to suggest it could have have happened just like Paul said it did?

It’s a question nobody can answer and definitely no professional would answer. You can pretend it’s possible from your agenda based viewpoint but that’s absolutely your uneducated opinion. Why would you waste your time, other than it’s not valuable?

Feel free to diagnosis everyone though. Perhaps diagnose yourself, too!

Of course they can: it didn't happen. So that leaves Paul was delusional or he was just making it up.

NP. Or, it was God entering Paul’s life in a way that changed the course of one religion and of history. I’m not a huge fan of Paul, but you go straight to ruling out divine intervention and that only reflects your personal biases.

I’m with the mental health professional—you have zero qualifications or information to diagnose someone who lived 2,000 years ago. Although I’m sure tempted to diagnose someone who obsesses about Paul—and who obsesses about other people being religious on a religion forum—on a daily and hourly basis.

someone said Paul may have been mentally ill. No one claimed he was. Or maybe just an extreme religious zealot. Another possibility is that Jesus really did speak to him by name and he did go up to heaven and come back. I'.m aware some people believe that really did happen, and that's fine if you wan to believe that.

As far as obsessing, I didn't even think of it until the poster at 11/23/2021 19:19 asked about Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. Have you read the whole thread?

You clearly ruled out divine intervention in your post two above your most recent post, so let’s stop with that debate.

So, you appear to admit you’re on this forum 24/7, reading entire threads like this one, as a nonbeliever. Would you say you have intrusive thoughts about religion, or even that you’re obsessed? Do you have any other outlets and relationships, or does trolling a religion forum on a mom’s website provide the most satisfaction you’ll get today?

+1

It’s very sad. I genuinely mean that.

DP here. Not sad at all. It's someone expressing their opinion on a religious topic in a religious forum. It's exactly what this place is for.

Hopefully you see the irony of saying a topic you hold of paramount importance can't be just as important to someone who believes differently than you do. Maybe that crosses over from irony to hypocrisy?

Asking someone if the “hear voices” and insinuating they are mentally ill is not expressing opinion on religion. You are a gaslighter that tries to sound reasonable, but that’s not respectful or reasonable discussion.

I did not ask that question, and I understand you may find the question insulting because it conflicts with your deeply held beliefs, but I find it a reasonable one myself. I am assuming you would also if we were speaking of the leader of Heaven's Gate or Joseph Smith.

Maybe a better way to ask the question: how can we tell someone who is genuinely being spoken to by a deity from someone with a mental illness? How do we know which? Can you answer that?

If we can't know the difference, then it is reasonable for people to assume either position, and seemingly more reasonable to assume the one that is common and for which there is mountains of evidence, right?

BTW, Are you the same person who mis-uses "gaslighting" in the college forum? That's not what the term means and you should look it up.

Gaslighting is used correctly to refer to you and your comments.

“Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes,” said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky. “[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself.”

“People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives,” Mogilevsky said. “Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way.”
Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn’t mean they’re a manifestation of mental illness.

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it’s vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.
“Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons,” said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. “When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness].”
Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

Religion not a form of mental illness—it’s actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S. Religion is many things—a famously indefinable concept—but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them,” said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn’s Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. “If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness.”
“In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion,” Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all—yes, atheists too—regularly engage in irrational thinking,” said Mogilevsky. “If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives.”

People here, especially you, are engaged in agenda based and frankly ignorant discussion about things (mental illness and religion) that obviously they know very little about. Op should be embarrassed and stop stalking that man.

First “gaslighting” has a meaning and it is not simply used to discredit someone’s comment. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. If you don’t mind using a term incorrectly that is your prerogative but it does not communicate what you want.

Your quotes don’t answer the question, in fact they totally avoid it. The question was explicitly about someone who believes they hear voices from a deity. How can you tell the difference between someone who is and someone who has a mental illness?

The point is if you can’t tell the difference then neither position can be disproved.

You will continue to type the same words and they will continue to mean nothing. Enjoy doing so. It seems that is what you do, and that, though sad, is your life.

Now someone is diagnosing Paul with epilepsy.

I am fully convinced that people read things on google and think that what they read gives them medical credentials. And not only is that odd, they use these google medical credentials with great assurance and confidence.

Can you imagine IRL how people would move rapidly away from you for doing so? Try to and save yourself from this fake life. It’s not real even though you cling to it.

So I guess it is clear you will not answer the question: How can you tell the difference between someone who is hearing voices from a deity and someone who has mental illness?

People who ONLY hear the voices of dieties are not considered to be mentally ill, because hearing such voices is considered normal in our society.

People who hear voices of dieties and others, who are like dieties only in that they are invisible, are considered to be mentally ill.

You keep posting and asking the same questions, with the same language and wording, post after post and thread after thread. Day after day.

Assume you are speaking to me who asked the question not the answer that follows it

Yes and I will keep asking the question until you answer it. But you won’t ever

pp's refusal to answer the question suggests pp's inability to answer it in a way that affirms pp's beliefs. But beliefs based on faith and not facts (e.g., religious beliefs) can't be and do not need to be affirmed by facts. They are driven by faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ You're avoiding the question. Are you trying to suggest it could have have happened just like Paul said it did?

It’s a question nobody can answer and definitely no professional would answer. You can pretend it’s possible from your agenda based viewpoint but that’s absolutely your uneducated opinion. Why would you waste your time, other than it’s not valuable?

Feel free to diagnosis everyone though. Perhaps diagnose yourself, too!

Of course they can: it didn't happen. So that leaves Paul was delusional or he was just making it up.

NP. Or, it was God entering Paul’s life in a way that changed the course of one religion and of history. I’m not a huge fan of Paul, but you go straight to ruling out divine intervention and that only reflects your personal biases.

I’m with the mental health professional—you have zero qualifications or information to diagnose someone who lived 2,000 years ago. Although I’m sure tempted to diagnose someone who obsesses about Paul—and who obsesses about other people being religious on a religion forum—on a daily and hourly basis.

someone said Paul may have been mentally ill. No one claimed he was. Or maybe just an extreme religious zealot. Another possibility is that Jesus really did speak to him by name and he did go up to heaven and come back. I'.m aware some people believe that really did happen, and that's fine if you wan to believe that.

As far as obsessing, I didn't even think of it until the poster at 11/23/2021 19:19 asked about Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. Have you read the whole thread?

You clearly ruled out divine intervention in your post two above your most recent post, so let’s stop with that debate.

So, you appear to admit you’re on this forum 24/7, reading entire threads like this one, as a nonbeliever. Would you say you have intrusive thoughts about religion, or even that you’re obsessed? Do you have any other outlets and relationships, or does trolling a religion forum on a mom’s website provide the most satisfaction you’ll get today?

+1

It’s very sad. I genuinely mean that.

DP here. Not sad at all. It's someone expressing their opinion on a religious topic in a religious forum. It's exactly what this place is for.

Hopefully you see the irony of saying a topic you hold of paramount importance can't be just as important to someone who believes differently than you do. Maybe that crosses over from irony to hypocrisy?

Asking someone if the “hear voices” and insinuating they are mentally ill is not expressing opinion on religion. You are a gaslighter that tries to sound reasonable, but that’s not respectful or reasonable discussion.

I did not ask that question, and I understand you may find the question insulting because it conflicts with your deeply held beliefs, but I find it a reasonable one myself. I am assuming you would also if we were speaking of the leader of Heaven's Gate or Joseph Smith.

Maybe a better way to ask the question: how can we tell someone who is genuinely being spoken to by a deity from someone with a mental illness? How do we know which? Can you answer that?

If we can't know the difference, then it is reasonable for people to assume either position, and seemingly more reasonable to assume the one that is common and for which there is mountains of evidence, right?

BTW, Are you the same person who mis-uses "gaslighting" in the college forum? That's not what the term means and you should look it up.

Gaslighting is used correctly to refer to you and your comments.

“Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes,” said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky. “[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself.”

“People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives,” Mogilevsky said. “Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way.”
Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn’t mean they’re a manifestation of mental illness.

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it’s vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.
“Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons,” said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. “When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness].”
Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

Religion not a form of mental illness—it’s actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S. Religion is many things—a famously indefinable concept—but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them,” said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn’s Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. “If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness.”
“In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion,” Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all—yes, atheists too—regularly engage in irrational thinking,” said Mogilevsky. “If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives.”

People here, especially you, are engaged in agenda based and frankly ignorant discussion about things (mental illness and religion) that obviously they know very little about. Op should be embarrassed and stop stalking that man.

First “gaslighting” has a meaning and it is not simply used to discredit someone’s comment. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. If you don’t mind using a term incorrectly that is your prerogative but it does not communicate what you want.

Your quotes don’t answer the question, in fact they totally avoid it. The question was explicitly about someone who believes they hear voices from a deity. How can you tell the difference between someone who is and someone who has a mental illness?

The point is if you can’t tell the difference then neither position can be disproved.

You will continue to type the same words and they will continue to mean nothing. Enjoy doing so. It seems that is what you do, and that, though sad, is your life.

Now someone is diagnosing Paul with epilepsy.

I am fully convinced that people read things on google and think that what they read gives them medical credentials. And not only is that odd, they use these google medical credentials with great assurance and confidence.

Can you imagine IRL how people would move rapidly away from you for doing so? Try to and save yourself from this fake life. It’s not real even though you cling to it.

So I guess it is clear you will not answer the question: How can you tell the difference between someone who is hearing voices from a deity and someone who has mental illness?

People who ONLY hear the voices of dieties are not considered to be mentally ill, because hearing such voices is considered normal in our society.

People who hear voices of dieties and others, who are like dieties only in that they are invisible, are considered to be mentally ill.

You keep posting and asking the same questions, with the same language and wording, post after post and thread after thread. Day after day.

Assume you are speaking to me who asked the question not the answer that follows it

Yes and I will keep asking the question until you answer it. But you won’t ever

pp's refusal to answer the question suggests pp's inability to answer it in a way that affirms pp's beliefs. But beliefs based on faith and not facts (e.g., religious beliefs) can't be and do not need to be affirmed by facts. They are driven by faith.

What a stupendous amount of gas-lighting and naked distortions from our atheists friends. First, pp clearly answers the question about hearing deities vs. mental illness, but you try to keep trolling her and insist she didn’t.

But in the bigger picture, and as anybody can see, this entire chain of posts up until the last few posts are about why atheists spend 24/7 on DCUM. You guys have been asked that question a zillion times (including multiple times above), and you’ve NEVER answered it. You just deflect, viz. the question about mental illness.

Your refusal to answer this question about your 24/7 trolling on DCUM suggests you don’t have any reason other than generally being miserable/isolation/no real hobbies. Prove this wrong!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ You're avoiding the question. Are you trying to suggest it could have have happened just like Paul said it did?

It’s a question nobody can answer and definitely no professional would answer. You can pretend it’s possible from your agenda based viewpoint but that’s absolutely your uneducated opinion. Why would you waste your time, other than it’s not valuable?

Feel free to diagnosis everyone though. Perhaps diagnose yourself, too!

Of course they can: it didn't happen. So that leaves Paul was delusional or he was just making it up.

NP. Or, it was God entering Paul’s life in a way that changed the course of one religion and of history. I’m not a huge fan of Paul, but you go straight to ruling out divine intervention and that only reflects your personal biases.

I’m with the mental health professional—you have zero qualifications or information to diagnose someone who lived 2,000 years ago. Although I’m sure tempted to diagnose someone who obsesses about Paul—and who obsesses about other people being religious on a religion forum—on a daily and hourly basis.

someone said Paul may have been mentally ill. No one claimed he was. Or maybe just an extreme religious zealot. Another possibility is that Jesus really did speak to him by name and he did go up to heaven and come back. I'.m aware some people believe that really did happen, and that's fine if you wan to believe that.

As far as obsessing, I didn't even think of it until the poster at 11/23/2021 19:19 asked about Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. Have you read the whole thread?

You clearly ruled out divine intervention in your post two above your most recent post, so let’s stop with that debate.

So, you appear to admit you’re on this forum 24/7, reading entire threads like this one, as a nonbeliever. Would you say you have intrusive thoughts about religion, or even that you’re obsessed? Do you have any other outlets and relationships, or does trolling a religion forum on a mom’s website provide the most satisfaction you’ll get today?

+1

It’s very sad. I genuinely mean that.

DP here. Not sad at all. It's someone expressing their opinion on a religious topic in a religious forum. It's exactly what this place is for.

Hopefully you see the irony of saying a topic you hold of paramount importance can't be just as important to someone who believes differently than you do. Maybe that crosses over from irony to hypocrisy?

Asking someone if the “hear voices” and insinuating they are mentally ill is not expressing opinion on religion. You are a gaslighter that tries to sound reasonable, but that’s not respectful or reasonable discussion.

I did not ask that question, and I understand you may find the question insulting because it conflicts with your deeply held beliefs, but I find it a reasonable one myself. I am assuming you would also if we were speaking of the leader of Heaven's Gate or Joseph Smith.

Maybe a better way to ask the question: how can we tell someone who is genuinely being spoken to by a deity from someone with a mental illness? How do we know which? Can you answer that?

If we can't know the difference, then it is reasonable for people to assume either position, and seemingly more reasonable to assume the one that is common and for which there is mountains of evidence, right?

BTW, Are you the same person who mis-uses "gaslighting" in the college forum? That's not what the term means and you should look it up.

Gaslighting is used correctly to refer to you and your comments.

“Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes,” said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky. “[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself.”

“People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives,” Mogilevsky said. “Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way.”
Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn’t mean they’re a manifestation of mental illness.

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it’s vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.
“Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons,” said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. “When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness].”
Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

Religion not a form of mental illness—it’s actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S. Religion is many things—a famously indefinable concept—but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them,” said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn’s Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. “If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness.”
“In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion,” Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all—yes, atheists too—regularly engage in irrational thinking,” said Mogilevsky. “If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives.”

People here, especially you, are engaged in agenda based and frankly ignorant discussion about things (mental illness and religion) that obviously they know very little about. Op should be embarrassed and stop stalking that man.

First “gaslighting” has a meaning and it is not simply used to discredit someone’s comment. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. If you don’t mind using a term incorrectly that is your prerogative but it does not communicate what you want.

Your quotes don’t answer the question, in fact they totally avoid it. The question was explicitly about someone who believes they hear voices from a deity. How can you tell the difference between someone who is and someone who has a mental illness?

The point is if you can’t tell the difference then neither position can be disproved.

You will continue to type the same words and they will continue to mean nothing. Enjoy doing so. It seems that is what you do, and that, though sad, is your life.

Now someone is diagnosing Paul with epilepsy.

I am fully convinced that people read things on google and think that what they read gives them medical credentials. And not only is that odd, they use these google medical credentials with great assurance and confidence.

Can you imagine IRL how people would move rapidly away from you for doing so? Try to and save yourself from this fake life. It’s not real even though you cling to it.

So I guess it is clear you will not answer the question: How can you tell the difference between someone who is hearing voices from a deity and someone who has mental illness?

People who ONLY hear the voices of dieties are not considered to be mentally ill, because hearing such voices is considered normal in our society.

People who hear voices of dieties and others, who are like dieties only in that they are invisible, are considered to be mentally ill.

You keep posting and asking the same questions, with the same language and wording, post after post and thread after thread. Day after day.

Assume you are speaking to me who asked the question not the answer that follows it

Yes and I will keep asking the question until you answer it. But you won’t ever

pp's refusal to answer the question suggests pp's inability to answer it in a way that affirms pp's beliefs. But beliefs based on faith and not facts (e.g., religious beliefs) can't be and do not need to be affirmed by facts. They are driven by faith.

What a stupendous amount of gas-lighting and naked distortions from our atheists friends. First, pp clearly answers the question about hearing deities vs. mental illness, but you try to keep trolling her and insist she didn’t.

But in the bigger picture, and as anybody can see, this entire chain of posts up until the last few posts are about why atheists spend 24/7 on DCUM. You guys have been asked that question a zillion times (including multiple times above), and you’ve NEVER answered it. You just deflect, viz. the question about mental illness.

Your refusal to answer this question about your 24/7 trolling on DCUM suggests you don’t have any reason other than generally being miserable/isolation/no real hobbies. Prove this wrong!

Some atheists, like some religious people are interested in the subject of religion. In fact, in some cases, it was their interest in religion that eventually encouraged them to become atheists.

Reading factual information about the Bible, and how other religions began has caused some people to change their beliefs. Some people never believed, even though raised in a religion and other people came to religion later in life after not being raised with a religion.

As has been pointed out many times, this is not a forum for religious believers only, or for a certain religion only, but rather it is a forum about religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ You're avoiding the question. Are you trying to suggest it could have have happened just like Paul said it did?

It’s a question nobody can answer and definitely no professional would answer. You can pretend it’s possible from your agenda based viewpoint but that’s absolutely your uneducated opinion. Why would you waste your time, other than it’s not valuable?

Feel free to diagnosis everyone though. Perhaps diagnose yourself, too!

Of course they can: it didn't happen. So that leaves Paul was delusional or he was just making it up.

NP. Or, it was God entering Paul’s life in a way that changed the course of one religion and of history. I’m not a huge fan of Paul, but you go straight to ruling out divine intervention and that only reflects your personal biases.

I’m with the mental health professional—you have zero qualifications or information to diagnose someone who lived 2,000 years ago. Although I’m sure tempted to diagnose someone who obsesses about Paul—and who obsesses about other people being religious on a religion forum—on a daily and hourly basis.

someone said Paul may have been mentally ill. No one claimed he was. Or maybe just an extreme religious zealot. Another possibility is that Jesus really did speak to him by name and he did go up to heaven and come back. I'.m aware some people believe that really did happen, and that's fine if you wan to believe that.

As far as obsessing, I didn't even think of it until the poster at 11/23/2021 19:19 asked about Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus. Have you read the whole thread?

You clearly ruled out divine intervention in your post two above your most recent post, so let’s stop with that debate.

So, you appear to admit you’re on this forum 24/7, reading entire threads like this one, as a nonbeliever. Would you say you have intrusive thoughts about religion, or even that you’re obsessed? Do you have any other outlets and relationships, or does trolling a religion forum on a mom’s website provide the most satisfaction you’ll get today?

+1

It’s very sad. I genuinely mean that.

DP here. Not sad at all. It's someone expressing their opinion on a religious topic in a religious forum. It's exactly what this place is for.

Hopefully you see the irony of saying a topic you hold of paramount importance can't be just as important to someone who believes differently than you do. Maybe that crosses over from irony to hypocrisy?

Asking someone if the “hear voices” and insinuating they are mentally ill is not expressing opinion on religion. You are a gaslighter that tries to sound reasonable, but that’s not respectful or reasonable discussion.

I did not ask that question, and I understand you may find the question insulting because it conflicts with your deeply held beliefs, but I find it a reasonable one myself. I am assuming you would also if we were speaking of the leader of Heaven's Gate or Joseph Smith.

Maybe a better way to ask the question: how can we tell someone who is genuinely being spoken to by a deity from someone with a mental illness? How do we know which? Can you answer that?

If we can't know the difference, then it is reasonable for people to assume either position, and seemingly more reasonable to assume the one that is common and for which there is mountains of evidence, right?

BTW, Are you the same person who mis-uses "gaslighting" in the college forum? That's not what the term means and you should look it up.

Gaslighting is used correctly to refer to you and your comments.

“Religion and mental illness are different psychological processes,” said atheist and mental health advocate Miri Mogilevsky. “[Religious beliefs may] stem from cognitive processes that are essentially adaptive, such as looking for patterns and feeling like a part of something larger than oneself.”

“People who cannot leave the house without having a panic attack or who feel a compulsion to wash their hands hundreds of times a day are experiencing symptoms that interfere with their ability to go about their lives,” Mogilevsky said. “Except in extreme cases, religion does not operate this way.”
Simply put: You may find religious beliefs irrational, but that doesn’t mean they’re a manifestation of mental illness.

Surely not all atheists who claim religion is a mental illness do so to insult believers, but some do. This should go without saying, but it’s vital: Mental illness should never be wielded as an insult, particularly because people with mental illness face widespread stigma.
“Equating religion with mental illness is harmful for a number of reasons,” said Mogilevsky, who will soon launch a secular mental health support group. “When done to make fun of or put down religion, it also puts down people struggling with [mental illness].”
Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it.

Religion not a form of mental illness—it’s actually associated with wellbeing in the U.S. Religion is many things—a famously indefinable concept—but for our purposes we can use the word to refer to supernatural belief systems and institutions built around them,” said David Yaden, a researcher at The University of Pennsylvania’s Positive Psychology Center who works in collaboration with UPenn’s Center for Cognitive Neuroscience, in a recent email exchange. “If that is our definition, religion absolutely cannot be [categorized] as a mental illness.”
“In fact, empirical evidence sometimes points to the opposite conclusion,” Yaden said, citing the work of Dr. Ken Pargament. “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

Claiming that religion is a mental illness obscures the fact that we all—yes, atheists too—regularly engage in irrational thinking,” said Mogilevsky. “If thinking irrationally is a mental illness, then we are all mentally ill, and the term loses its meaning. As a survivor of mental illness myself, I think we should save that term for situations in which people are truly suffering and having trouble going about their lives.”

People here, especially you, are engaged in agenda based and frankly ignorant discussion about things (mental illness and religion) that obviously they know very little about. Op should be embarrassed and stop stalking that man.

First “gaslighting” has a meaning and it is not simply used to discredit someone’s comment. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. If you don’t mind using a term incorrectly that is your prerogative but it does not communicate what you want.

Your quotes don’t answer the question, in fact they totally avoid it. The question was explicitly about someone who believes they hear voices from a deity. How can you tell the difference between someone who is and someone who has a mental illness?

The point is if you can’t tell the difference then neither position can be disproved.

You will continue to type the same words and they will continue to mean nothing. Enjoy doing so. It seems that is what you do, and that, though sad, is your life.

Now someone is diagnosing Paul with epilepsy.

I am fully convinced that people read things on google and think that what they read gives them medical credentials. And not only is that odd, they use these google medical credentials with great assurance and confidence.

Can you imagine IRL how people would move rapidly away from you for doing so? Try to and save yourself from this fake life. It’s not real even though you cling to it.

So I guess it is clear you will not answer the question: How can you tell the difference between someone who is hearing voices from a deity and someone who has mental illness?

People who ONLY hear the voices of dieties are not considered to be mentally ill, because hearing such voices is considered normal in our society.

People who hear voices of dieties and others, who are like dieties only in that they are invisible, are considered to be mentally ill.

You keep posting and asking the same questions, with the same language and wording, post after post and thread after thread. Day after day.

Assume you are speaking to me who asked the question not the answer that follows it

Yes and I will keep asking the question until you answer it. But you won’t ever

pp's refusal to answer the question suggests pp's inability to answer it in a way that affirms pp's beliefs. But beliefs based on faith and not facts (e.g., religious beliefs) can't be and do not need to be affirmed by facts. They are driven by faith.

What a stupendous amount of gas-lighting and naked distortions from our atheists friends. First, pp clearly answers the question about hearing deities vs. mental illness, but you try to keep trolling her and insist she didn’t.

But in the bigger picture, and as anybody can see, this entire chain of posts up until the last few posts are about why atheists spend 24/7 on DCUM. You guys have been asked that question a zillion times (including multiple times above), and you’ve NEVER answered it. You just deflect, viz. the question about mental illness.

Your refusal to answer this question about your 24/7 trolling on DCUM suggests you don’t have any reason other than generally being miserable/isolation/no real hobbies. Prove this wrong!

Some atheists, like some religious people are interested in the subject of religion. In fact, in some cases, it was their interest in religion that eventually encouraged them to become atheists.

Reading factual information about the Bible, and how other religions began has caused some people to change their beliefs. Some people never believed, even though raised in a religion and other people came to religion later in life after not being raised with a religion.

As has been pointed out many times, this is not a forum for religious believers only, or for a certain religion only, but rather it is a forum about religion.

It has been pointed out many times because you don’t have anything else to do but post the same topics, “questions,” etc, incessantly. None of the atheists who post here are knowledgeable about the Bible or religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has been pointed out many times because you don’t have anything else to do but post the same topics, “questions,” etc, incessantly. None of the atheists who post here are knowledgeable about the Bible or religion.

This is a flat out lie.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Exodus 20:16)

[Anonymous]

If you hear voices, you’re nuts.

If you believe other people when they tell you they hear voices, you’re…a believer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you hear voices, you’re nuts.

If you believe other people when they tell you they hear voices, you’re…a believer?

^^ atheist demonstrating ignorance about prophets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It has been pointed out many times because you don’t have anything else to do but post the same topics, “questions,” etc, incessantly. None of the atheists who post here are knowledgeable about the Bible or religion.

This is a flat out lie.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Exodus 20:16)

DP. Actually it’s quite true—you guys trade in gross stereotypes and misrepresentations every day.