Likelies/safeties for math-oriented majors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not OP.

So taking 3 levels of math above calculus (and doing well) has no value in college admissions over a kid who takes precalculus or calculus as a senior?
I don't think I've seen that play out in my limited experience.

I know a few kids who were on this track (calc in 9th or 10th followed by 2-3 years of post-calc math) and they were among the few in their class who were accepted to very top universities (Stanford last year, Cornell this year among my very small circle of friends with older kids).

If they’re going for math, yes. If they’re going for literally any other major, it’s probably not worth it to be that far ahead unless the student just genuinely enjoys it and getting As in those classes comes easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP.

So taking 3 levels of math above calculus (and doing well) has no value in college admissions over a kid who takes precalculus or calculus as a senior?
I don't think I've seen that play out in my limited experience.

I know a few kids who were on this track (calc in 9th or 10th followed by 2-3 years of post-calc math) and they were among the few in their class who were accepted to very top universities (Stanford last year, Cornell this year among my very small circle of friends with older kids).

If they’re going for math, yes. If they’re going for literally any other major, it’s probably not worth it to be that far ahead unless the student just genuinely enjoys it and getting As in those classes comes easily.

immediate pp here, and I should add that there is a big difference between precalc and calc as a senior. Calc is the norm for college bound seniors in the dc area.

[Anonymous]

This is my kid. Now at University of Chicago (ED). Loves math. We ruled out most liberal arts colleges because they didn't have enough curriculum (most would run out in two years). We did look at Haverford and Swarthmore - both with links to UPenn (and talked to current students on that path). It looked possible. I believe there are maybe two more that have this level of math available - Harvey Mudd is another (and really hard to get into). Since we are in state for UMD, we had that as a safety - many of my child's friends are there and doing great. He got into University of Minnesota and Wisconsin. He like Maryland, and we discussed shooting lower for FA, but ran the net price for schools and gave him the choice to go to schools where we thought were better than UMD and us as parents thought we would pay for. He wanted to be in an urban location and a "top" school. Ended up with a plan for other reach schools if Chicago didn't work out, and safeties otherwise. He was in math/science magnet, high scores, lots of APs, 4.0 gpa (unweighted). No other extraordinary qualifications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP.

So taking 3 levels of math above calculus (and doing well) has no value in college admissions over a kid who takes precalculus or calculus as a senior?
I don't think I've seen that play out in my limited experience.

I know a few kids who were on this track (calc in 9th or 10th followed by 2-3 years of post-calc math) and they were among the few in their class who were accepted to very top universities (Stanford last year, Cornell this year among my very small circle of friends with older kids).

If they’re going for math, yes. If they’re going for literally any other major, it’s probably not worth it to be that far ahead unless the student just genuinely enjoys it and getting As in those classes comes easily.

immediate pp here, and I should add that there is a big difference between precalc and calc as a senior. Calc is the norm for college bound seniors in the dc area.

The student has to do something with it to be really impressive. A guy I graduated from high school with solved a proof in fewer steps than had been done previously. It was published. He won a major math award that usually went to full professors. He got into Harvard, Stanford and Yale.

You need to show you can apply the knowledge. Join FIRST robotics and demonstrate leadership. Do research with a professor and get published. Start a business and sell a product. Invent something and file for a patent. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC took BC calc in 9th grade (on track for multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations, and number theory in 10th-12th), and is starting to show interest in specific colleges very well known for math. Even at this early stage, however, I don’t want DC focusing on reach schools - as everyone knows, it’s just not prudent in this day and age.

While circumstances can certainly change, thus far, DC has truly enjoyed and excelled in both humanities and STEM coursework, and is on track to take the most rigorous curriculum offered across the board at DC’s high school. Math is the primary love, however, and DC likely will pursue a math-oriented major in college. Whether that’s pure or applied like physics/CS/engineering/etc. remains to be seen.

Wiser and more experienced parents of DCUM, I would appreciate your insight as I begin to gather information on safeties/likelies with strong undergraduate math programs. I hope to help DC get excited about schools that are actually attainable, not just those that are aspirational. Thank you in advance!

A (probably guaranteed unless they commit a felony) safety that will give them enough merit aid to make the price comparable to in-state is St. Olaf. St. Olaf is a less selective school that really punches above its weight in math. It has one of the best selections of upper-level math topics courses of any liberal arts college, let alone one that accepts over 40% of applicants. It runs the North America office of Budapest Semesters in Mathematics, which is the best math-specific study abroad program. And, over the last decade, it has produced more math PhDs than almost any other liberal arts college, save Harvey Mudd and Williams https://www.highereddatastories.com/2020/12/baccalaureate-origins-of-doctoral.html. On-campus research opportunities are rampant and faculty help with applications to summer REUs at universities. Your kid will be better prepared than most students there but won't run out of opportunities. Also, the school is full of very kind students and faculty, especially in the math department. The department also takes math pedagogy very seriously. The natural sciences at St. Olaf are good, but if computer science is a priority, look elsewhere.

I suspect your kid will get into a more selective school, but St. Olaf is a place to look into. Also, while you're there you can check out the cross-town rival, Carleton. Carleton is a great choice for math and a much better choice for CS, but my impression is that it's not really a safety for anybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is my kid. Now at University of Chicago (ED). Loves math. We ruled out most liberal arts colleges because they didn't have enough curriculum (most would run out in two years). We did look at Haverford and Swarthmore - both with links to UPenn (and talked to current students on that path). It looked possible. I believe there are maybe two more that have this level of math available - Harvey Mudd is another (and really hard to get into). Since we are in state for UMD, we had that as a safety - many of my child's friends are there and doing great. He got into University of Minnesota and Wisconsin. He like Maryland, and we discussed shooting lower for FA, but ran the net price for schools and gave him the choice to go to schools where we thought were better than UMD and us as parents thought we would pay for. He wanted to be in an urban location and a "top" school. Ended up with a plan for other reach schools if Chicago didn't work out, and safeties otherwise. He was in math/science magnet, high scores, lots of APs, 4.0 gpa (unweighted). No other extraordinary qualifications.

Thank you for sharing your son’s experience!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC took BC calc in 9th grade (on track for multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations, and number theory in 10th-12th), and is starting to show interest in specific colleges very well known for math. Even at this early stage, however, I don’t want DC focusing on reach schools - as everyone knows, it’s just not prudent in this day and age.

While circumstances can certainly change, thus far, DC has truly enjoyed and excelled in both humanities and STEM coursework, and is on track to take the most rigorous curriculum offered across the board at DC’s high school. Math is the primary love, however, and DC likely will pursue a math-oriented major in college. Whether that’s pure or applied like physics/CS/engineering/etc. remains to be seen.

Wiser and more experienced parents of DCUM, I would appreciate your insight as I begin to gather information on safeties/likelies with strong undergraduate math programs. I hope to help DC get excited about schools that are actually attainable, not just those that are aspirational. Thank you in advance!

A (probably guaranteed unless they commit a felony) safety that will give them enough merit aid to make the price comparable to in-state is St. Olaf. St. Olaf is a less selective school that really punches above its weight in math. It has one of the best selections of upper-level math topics courses of any liberal arts college, let alone one that accepts over 40% of applicants. It runs the North America office of Budapest Semesters in Mathematics, which is the best math-specific study abroad program. And, over the last decade, it has produced more math PhDs than almost any other liberal arts college, save Harvey Mudd and Williams https://www.highereddatastories.com/2020/12/baccalaureate-origins-of-doctoral.html. On-campus research opportunities are rampant and faculty help with applications to summer REUs at universities. Your kid will be better prepared than most students there but won't run out of opportunities. Also, the school is full of very kind students and faculty, especially in the math department. The department also takes math pedagogy very seriously. The natural sciences at St. Olaf are good, but if computer science is a priority, look elsewhere.

I suspect your kid will get into a more selective school, but St. Olaf is a place to look into. Also, while you're there you can check out the cross-town rival, Carleton. Carleton is a great choice for math and a much better choice for CS, but my impression is that it's not really a safety for anybody.

This is extremely helpful, thanks so much!

[Anonymous]

It sounds like your child will do well on the SAT/ACT - since you said are also strong in humanities. So the higher ranked schools that are very numbers based and where legacy plays little to no role, -MIT, CMU, Hopkins etc. will be more in reach than Ivies (unless your DC is a legacy, than a high SAT and strong GPA will be enough to get them in.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about schools like RPI, Case Western, or Purdue?

Fantastic schools. It's way too early to label them "likelies" though. OP doesn't know how her kid's grades will hold up.

I'd look at a variety of sizes of schools, so small places like Rose Hulman, and big places like Vtech (also not a safety) etc . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like your child will do well on the SAT/ACT - since you said are also strong in humanities. So the higher ranked schools that are very numbers based and where legacy plays little to no role, -MIT, CMU, Hopkins etc. will be more in reach than Ivies (unless your DC is a legacy, than a high SAT and strong GPA will be enough to get them in.)

Fingers crossed DC will do well on the SAT/ACT! DC actually is a legacy at two HYPS, but admissions is still such a crapshoot that I want DC to focus more on safeties/likelies than reaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about schools like RPI, Case Western, or Purdue?

Fantastic schools. It's way too early to label them "likelies" though. OP doesn't know how her kid's grades will hold up.

I'd look at a variety of sizes of schools, so small places like Rose Hulman, and big places like Vtech (also not a safety) etc . . .

Good point, and thank you!

[Anonymous]

Look into colleges with actuarial majors/tracks. Your kid can start taking calc based probabilities and statistics starting freshman year in college to pass the first actuarial exam. Your child will have a very promising actuarial career if he can have all preliminary actuarial exams done in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look into colleges with actuarial majors/tracks. Your kid can start taking calc based probabilities and statistics starting freshman year in college to pass the first actuarial exam. Your child will have a very promising actuarial career if he can have all preliminary actuarial exams done in college.

+1 There are a few pre-college programs in actuarial science that could give him an idea of what it entails. This is a very long-running one -- https://www.lvc.edu/life-at-lvc/summer-community-programming/actuarial-science-camp/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, your kid is advanced in math!

Those in the know---does this type of math acceleration (and let's say the kid has great grades) help with elite school admissions? Or is it pretty commonplace? This is the equivalent of taking Algebra 1 in 5th grade.

In truth, with the exception of schools like MIT, this kid will be no more likely to get into an elite schools like Ivies than a student who does exceptionally well on a more traditional AP or IB path. This is a very exclusive track that the vast majority of students don’t even have access to, and those that do, are groomed and prepped from a very young age to be prepared for it.

I am not trying to discredit the accomplishments of the OP’s kid in any way. They are definitely very talented and advanced in math. I am just saying that this is not usually a thing that is even an option to kids who have the capability.

False, some kids are identified by teachers and schools because they are ready. I hate this dcum tactic of assuming any advanced child is prepped and pushed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, your kid is advanced in math!

Those in the know---does this type of math acceleration (and let's say the kid has great grades) help with elite school admissions? Or is it pretty commonplace? This is the equivalent of taking Algebra 1 in 5th grade.

In truth, with the exception of schools like MIT, this kid will be no more likely to get into an elite schools like Ivies than a student who does exceptionally well on a more traditional AP or IB path. This is a very exclusive track that the vast majority of students don’t even have access to, and those that do, are groomed and prepped from a very young age to be prepared for it.

I am not trying to discredit the accomplishments of the OP’s kid in any way. They are definitely very talented and advanced in math. I am just saying that this is not usually a thing that is even an option to kids who have the capability.

False, some kids are identified by teachers and schools because they are ready. I hate this dcum tactic of assuming any advanced child is prepped and pushed.

Yes, sometimes that happens exclusively in largely white and Asian UMC public schools in FCPS, but the vast majority of students on this path are in accelerated math programs outside of school for the sole purpose of preparing them for TJ. I live in the Haycock pyramid. I know how this works.