What happened to thread on advanced math and VMPI?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even without tracking, the title is still valid, as was explained in the thread. The practice would lead to loss of advanced math for a large number of students, and indeed LCPS has taken away some advanced math based on VMPI. This is a current fact, not guesswork about what will happen in the future.

The thread contained many useful links, and would be better if it were reinstated.

The title was never valid. VDOE was not "eliminating advanced math". They just didn't explicitly call out that school systems could maintain their acceleration/advanced options that they have today. And people speculated and jumped to conclusions.

LCPS may have reduced the compressed math options but not based on anything published by VMPI - VDOE isn't even coming up with a draft proposal until next year.

That's your version.

Sorry, that's reality.

Indisputable facts:
- VPMI is in early "building" phase
- VMPI isn't coming up with a draft proposal until next year
- VMPI has never stated they were eliminating advanced math

Neither of these are facts, nor are they indisputable.

The facts are

- VMPI has been worked on for multiple years. They are now ready to present their results to the public. Your use of double quotes for "building" phase is appreciated, though. It is indeed doubtful whether this group is able to "build" anything.
- VMPI has been circulating materials (a carefully produced video, an infographic, and work session materials, some dating back as early as 2020.
- VMPI's proponents have made multiple statements that a reasonable person would interpret as "eliminating advanced math." What constitutes "advanced math" of course differs by reader; on DCUM, it refers to post calculus courses. Please refer to their work session material from 2020, slide 8. The proposed umbrella ("essential math in 8-9-10", and what VDOE defines as "advanced math" in 11-12), clearly eliminates the opportunity for truly advanced math in 11-12.

Those are the facts of what's being proposed, phrasing this as "VDOE attempts to ban advanced math" (or whatever the exact title of the thread was) is not counterfactual, it's a barely opinionated interpretation of the facts.

[jsteele]

The title was, “Virginia Department of Education banning advanced math.” I think everyone here would agree that this is far from true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even without tracking, the title is still valid, as was explained in the thread. The practice would lead to loss of advanced math for a large number of students, and indeed LCPS has taken away some advanced math based on VMPI. This is a current fact, not guesswork about what will happen in the future.

The thread contained many useful links, and would be better if it were reinstated.

The title was never valid. VDOE was not "eliminating advanced math". They just didn't explicitly call out that school systems could maintain their acceleration/advanced options that they have today. And people speculated and jumped to conclusions.

LCPS may have reduced the compressed math options but not based on anything published by VMPI - VDOE isn't even coming up with a draft proposal until next year.

That's your version.

Sorry, that's reality.

Indisputable facts:
- VPMI is in early "building" phase
- VMPI isn't coming up with a draft proposal until next year
- VMPI has never stated they were eliminating advanced math

Neither of these are facts, nor are they indisputable.

The facts are

- VMPI has been worked on for multiple years. They are now ready to present their results to the public. Your use of double quotes for "building" phase is appreciated, though. It is indeed doubtful whether this group is able to "build" anything.
- VMPI has been circulating materials (a carefully produced video, an infographic, and work session materials, some dating back as early as 2020.
- VMPI's proponents have made multiple statements that a reasonable person would interpret as "eliminating advanced math." What constitutes "advanced math" of course differs by reader; on DCUM, it refers to post calculus courses. Please refer to their work session material from 2020, slide 8. The proposed umbrella ("essential math in 8-9-10", and what VDOE defines as "advanced math" in 11-12), clearly eliminates the opportunity for truly advanced math in 11-12.

Those are the facts of what's being proposed, phrasing this as "VDOE attempts to ban advanced math" (or whatever the exact title of the thread was) is not counterfactual, it's a barely opinionated interpretation of the facts.

Uh - those are confirmable facts. Have you actually watched any of the info sessions?

VMPI is multiyear project. They have said that they are in the "building phase" right now - they are discussing various ideas with stakeholders.

They will produce a draft next year.

To a reasonable person, they have been laying out the typical pathway for the curriculum. e.g, Math 8 was designed for 8th graders. That doesn't stop 6th graders from taking it today, but it's still labeled Math 8. That is why they removed the grade labels from the infographics in the last info session because people were misinterpreting that those were the ONLY grades that could take those courses. No, that's just the typical grade for that course. They have since clarified that schools can still accelerate students as desired. Just as they do today.

My whole point back when that thread started was that it was early stages (true) and they hadn't provided much detail yet (true) so people were just speculating (true).

The title "VDOE banning advanced math" was never accurate. And is certainly false today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even without tracking, the title is still valid, as was explained in the thread. The practice would lead to loss of advanced math for a large number of students, and indeed LCPS has taken away some advanced math based on VMPI. This is a current fact, not guesswork about what will happen in the future.

The thread contained many useful links, and would be better if it were reinstated.

The title was never valid. VDOE was not "eliminating advanced math". They just didn't explicitly call out that school systems could maintain their acceleration/advanced options that they have today. And people speculated and jumped to conclusions.

LCPS may have reduced the compressed math options but not based on anything published by VMPI - VDOE isn't even coming up with a draft proposal until next year.

That's your version.

Sorry, that's reality.

Indisputable facts:
- VPMI is in early "building" phase
- VMPI isn't coming up with a draft proposal until next year
- VMPI has never stated they were eliminating advanced math

Neither of these are facts, nor are they indisputable.

The facts are

- VMPI has been worked on for multiple years. They are now ready to present their results to the public. Your use of double quotes for "building" phase is appreciated, though. It is indeed doubtful whether this group is able to "build" anything.
- VMPI has been circulating materials (a carefully produced video, an infographic, and work session materials, some dating back as early as 2020.
- VMPI's proponents have made multiple statements that a reasonable person would interpret as "eliminating advanced math." What constitutes "advanced math" of course differs by reader; on DCUM, it refers to post calculus courses. Please refer to their work session material from 2020, slide 8. The proposed umbrella ("essential math in 8-9-10", and what VDOE defines as "advanced math" in 11-12), clearly eliminates the opportunity for truly advanced math in 11-12.

Those are the facts of what's being proposed, phrasing this as "VDOE attempts to ban advanced math" (or whatever the exact title of the thread was) is not counterfactual, it's a barely opinionated interpretation of the facts.

Uh - those are confirmable facts. Have you actually watched any of the info sessions?

VMPI is multiyear project. They have said that they are in the "building phase" right now - they are discussing various ideas with stakeholders.

They will produce a draft next year.

To a reasonable person, they have been laying out the typical pathway for the curriculum. e.g, Math 8 was designed for 8th graders. That doesn't stop 6th graders from taking it today, but it's still labeled Math 8. That is why they removed the grade labels from the infographics in the last info session because people were misinterpreting that those were the ONLY grades that could take those courses. No, that's just the typical grade for that course. They have since clarified that schools can still accelerate students as desired. Just as they do today.

My whole point back when that thread started was that it was early stages (true) and they hadn't provided much detail yet (true) so people were just speculating (true).

The title "VDOE banning advanced math" was never accurate. And is certainly false today.

It was true at the time given their desire for detracking, which was stated many times, and specifically confirmed by e-mail.
It still is likely true, for the reasons given in the thread. Some school districts might go around it, but in practice this would severely reduce advanced math for the vast majority. If they are to be believed as to their intended content of classes, it would also produce worse racial disparity in SOL pass rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LCPS in the video said the they were making changes because of VMPI's proposals.

What proposal?

Someone at LCPS jumped the gun. The draft proposal from VMPI doesn't come out until next year.

VMPI staff explained to county staff what they were doing. Just because they don't have a formal written draft doesn't mean they don't have a general outline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LCPS in the video said the they were making changes because of VMPI's proposals.

What proposal?

Someone at LCPS jumped the gun. The draft proposal from VMPI doesn't come out until next year.

VMPI staff explained to county staff what they were doing. Just because they don't have a formal written draft doesn't mean they don't have a general outline.

That is evolving...

Someone at LCPS either fcked up or is trying to shift the blame.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
It was true at the time given their desire for detracking, which was stated many times, and specifically confirmed by e-mail.
It still is likely true, for the reasons given in the thread. Some school districts might go around it, but in practice this would severely reduce advanced math for the vast majority. If they are to be believed as to their intended content of classes, it would also produce worse racial disparity in SOL pass rates.

Every time you post you further strengthen the case that the thread was inaccurately titled. The elimination of tracking is not a ban on advanced math. The vast majority of students does not take advanced math so reducing advanced math for the vast majority is neither a change in the status quo nor a ban on advanced math.

At any rate, the question that this thread was created to answer has been answered. So, time to move on.