Water in basement -- so many options, so many different costs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re misinformed. Exterior drains are definitely still used/required.

Here’s Carroll County:
https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/directory/public-works/permits-inspections/residential-projects/residential-code-compliance-guidelines/

Of course if you have an existing house you can just get bigger gutters and call it a day but exterior drains are the standard.

And you are still an idiot. Exterior drain tile was always required for NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION while both interior, exterior, sump pumps and battery back-up pumps are required in PG county. As usual, your comments have NOTHING to do with the discussion about an older home, that already has an exterior drain-as they all do-and how to remedy the situation of water intrusion. There is no Fing code in any county in MD, VA, or DC that requires a contractor doing water proofing to put in, or replace an exterior drain and hardly anyone does. It's nearly all interior drains tied to sump pumps, permitted where required. Permits are not even required for this type of work in MOCO or HOCO.

The houses in my neighborhood are 100 years old and they definitely don’t all have exterior drains. And people do excavate to add them if they want to finish the basement.

[Anonymous]

Op, we had the same experience. We got 3 estimates and there was wild variability in pricing and suggested fixes. Options ranged from 2 inside sump pumps to 1 outside sump pump to just redirecting water from house. The problem was that cinder block is porous and due to electrostatic activity water flowed in after a heavy storm. This was in an area where the basement was underground but the outside terrain sloped a lot along the whole side of the house. The solution: They trended right next to our house to slightly below the foundation and then applied this miracle waterproofing membrane called Bithuthene along a big section where the water was coming in. This solved everything. Never another drop and we avoided having to install a musty smelly sump pump that would have just encouraged the water to be pulled through that cinderblock. Over 12 years later, still happy with that decision. Some other companies had proposed outlandish solutions where they would trench inside our basement floor in a giant U-shaped pattern to then place 2 sump pumps in. This solution which has worked phenomenonly well was quick and effective and kept the solution outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re misinformed. Exterior drains are definitely still used/required.

Here’s Carroll County:
https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/directory/public-works/permits-inspections/residential-projects/residential-code-compliance-guidelines/

Of course if you have an existing house you can just get bigger gutters and call it a day but exterior drains are the standard.

And you are still an idiot. Exterior drain tile was always required for NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION while both interior, exterior, sump pumps and battery back-up pumps are required in PG county. As usual, your comments have NOTHING to do with the discussion about an older home, that already has an exterior drain-as they all do-and how to remedy the situation of water intrusion. There is no Fing code in any county in MD, VA, or DC that requires a contractor doing water proofing to put in, or replace an exterior drain and hardly anyone does. It's nearly all interior drains tied to sump pumps, permitted where required. Permits are not even required for this type of work in MOCO or HOCO.

Sad you want to cut corners

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re misinformed. Exterior drains are definitely still used/required.

Here’s Carroll County:
https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/directory/public-works/permits-inspections/residential-projects/residential-code-compliance-guidelines/

Of course if you have an existing house you can just get bigger gutters and call it a day but exterior drains are the standard.

Really? Link me to 5 basement waterproofing companies in this area and I'll bet you not one of them does exterior drain tile work. Not only is it not the standard, it's pretty much obsolete for water management of an existing home.

Do it right excavate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, we had the same experience. We got 3 estimates and there was wild variability in pricing and suggested fixes. Options ranged from 2 inside sump pumps to 1 outside sump pump to just redirecting water from house. The problem was that cinder block is porous and due to electrostatic activity water flowed in after a heavy storm. This was in an area where the basement was underground but the outside terrain sloped a lot along the whole side of the house. The solution: They trended right next to our house to slightly below the foundation and then applied this miracle waterproofing membrane called Bithuthene along a big section where the water was coming in. This solved everything. Never another drop and we avoided having to install a musty smelly sump pump that would have just encouraged the water to be pulled through that cinderblock. Over 12 years later, still happy with that decision. Some other companies had proposed outlandish solutions where they would trench inside our basement floor in a giant U-shaped pattern to then place 2 sump pumps in. This solution which has worked phenomenonly well was quick and effective and kept the solution outside.

Do you mind sharing how much this cost and/or who you used?

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure a “miracle membrane” is a good sign. Membrane against what? The water will come under or around.

[Anonymous]

We had moisture issues (no visible water, but obvious humidity/moisture) seeping into the basement. During a larger renovation, we dug down and put in drain tiles, a Bituthene membrane and drain board (all exterior). We also put in an exterior sump pump, just in case. Since then, basement is dry and not humid. An independent structural PE we hired - and our licensed Architect - both agreed this was the only way to completely solve the problem.

We later learned a neighbor had similar issues. They had put in an interior drain, which was lower cost and mitigated somewhat, but did not really -solve- the problem.

YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Different states and localities have slightly different building code requirements. Code also changes, not always for the better, over time. Code only applies to new construction, additions, and major renovations.

If one drives by many new builds in NoVA, one commonly sees just a tar-like treatment applied directly to the outside of a Concrete or block basement. Might or might not have drain tile. No exterior sump. This likely will work for a few years, long enough to get past any builder warranty, but likely will cease working no later than 10-15 years. Even expensive houses ($1M+) often get only this - even with clay soil. Most buyers do not know to ask and this increases builder profits. Caveat emptor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We had moisture issues (no visible water, but obvious humidity/moisture) seeping into the basement. During a larger renovation, we dug down and put in drain tiles, a Bituthene membrane and drain board (all exterior). We also put in an exterior sump pump, just in case. Since then, basement is dry and not humid. An independent structural PE we hired - and our licensed Architect - both agreed this was the only way to completely solve the problem.

We later learned a neighbor had similar issues. They had put in an interior drain, which was lower cost and mitigated somewhat, but did not really -solve- the problem.

YMMV.

How many times are you going to post the same story, eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re misinformed. Exterior drains are definitely still used/required.

Here’s Carroll County:
https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/directory/public-works/permits-inspections/residential-projects/residential-code-compliance-guidelines/

Of course if you have an existing house you can just get bigger gutters and call it a day but exterior drains are the standard.

And you are still an idiot. Exterior drain tile was always required for NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION while both interior, exterior, sump pumps and battery back-up pumps are required in PG county. As usual, your comments have NOTHING to do with the discussion about an older home, that already has an exterior drain-as they all do-and how to remedy the situation of water intrusion. There is no Fing code in any county in MD, VA, or DC that requires a contractor doing water proofing to put in, or replace an exterior drain and hardly anyone does. It's nearly all interior drains tied to sump pumps, permitted where required. Permits are not even required for this type of work in MOCO or HOCO.

The houses in my neighborhood are 100 years old and they definitely don’t all have exterior drains. And people do excavate to add them if they want to finish the basement.

Hardly ever. Even 100-150 years ago, exterior footing drains were commonly used and building code in most places still hasn't changed much in that regard. While houses may be built to last over 100 years, the drainage scheme often doesn't perform even half that long. Today, excavating down to the footer to install a footing drain is rarely done, and not practical or even possible for many homes. Do excavate along any wall of a home means removing anything that sits along that wall. A/C units, landscaping, landscaping, concrete stoops, walkways, decks, etc. Of course, you can't remove an addition, or even a sun porch. Then, you have to dig out as far as you dig deep so an 8' deep hole has to be 8' out from the house and then that dirt has to be piled beyond that hole. You can only do that on a property with enough room and where it's safe to use an excavator which will tear up the lawn and possibly damage the roots of any trees it gets near. Digging down to the footer is risky and not really a good idea. The companies that do this work charge as much as $20,000 per wall and do not offer any kind of lifetime warranty against water intrusion. In the end, they are just laying another drain pipe down in the mud. But I'm sure you know all this. Is there some reason you keep insisting this is a good, standard practice when it's not? Again, I challenge you to show me even 3 highly rated basement waterproofing companies in the area who don't commonly do interior drains as their standard practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had moisture issues (no visible water, but obvious humidity/moisture) seeping into the basement. During a larger renovation, we dug down and put in drain tiles, a Bituthene membrane and drain board (all exterior). We also put in an exterior sump pump, just in case. Since then, basement is dry and not humid. An independent structural PE we hired - and our licensed Architect - both agreed this was the only way to completely solve the problem.

We later learned a neighbor had similar issues. They had put in an interior drain, which was lower cost and mitigated somewhat, but did not really -solve- the problem.

YMMV.

How many times are you going to post the same story, eh?

It's the same guy, now posting as a happy homeowner/customer with a ridiculous story. You certainly don't need an Architect, or a Structural Engineer, PE to solve a simple water intrusion problem and it's highly unlikely anyone would hire one, or both just to issue an opinion on how to repair this problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Different states and localities have slightly different building code requirements. Code also changes, not always for the better, over time. Code only applies to new construction, additions, and major renovations.

If one drives by many new builds in NoVA, one commonly sees just a tar-like treatment applied directly to the outside of a Concrete or block basement. Might or might not have drain tile. No exterior sump. This likely will work for a few years, long enough to get past any builder warranty, but likely will cease working no later than 10-15 years. Even expensive houses ($1M+) often get only this - even with clay soil. Most buyers do not know to ask and this increases builder profits. Caveat emptor.

There aren't any new builds without drain tile and you know it. They use corrugated, perforated pipe surrounded by drainage stone which is dirt cheap to purchase and install. This is not an area where builders cut corners to save money. They cut corners in so many other areas, but not this. As far as drainage goes, builders rarely extend the downspouts away from the house or emply any kind of drainage plan at all which not only leads to water intrusion issues but serious foundation issues down the line as well.

A thin tar coating is all that is applied as a weeping barrier, per code and that hasn't changed in most places-PG county being a notable exception-in years. The tar coating is not very effective and doesn't last long, and the drain tile-really just plastic pipe, gets full of silt and clay over time. Sometimes a very short time. Your solution, and I'm well familiar with it, is only slightly better. That's why you don't offer much of a warranty. You know I'm right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We had moisture issues (no visible water, but obvious humidity/moisture) seeping into the basement. During a larger renovation, we dug down and put in drain tiles, a Bituthene membrane and drain board (all exterior). We also put in an exterior sump pump, just in case. Since then, basement is dry and not humid. An independent structural PE we hired - and our licensed Architect - both agreed this was the only way to completely solve the problem.

We later learned a neighbor had similar issues. They had put in an interior drain, which was lower cost and mitigated somewhat, but did not really -solve- the problem.

YMMV.

How do you keep an exterior sump pump pit from freezing up in the winter? Why would any company install a sump pump pit outside?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you keep an exterior sump pump pit from freezing up in the winter? Why would any company install a sump pump pit outside?

I don't have one, but pumps are routinely deployed in areas that freeze. Does frozen water pose a problem for leaking into a basement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re misinformed. Exterior drains are definitely still used/required.

Here’s Carroll County:
https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/directory/public-works/permits-inspections/residential-projects/residential-code-compliance-guidelines/

Of course if you have an existing house you can just get bigger gutters and call it a day but exterior drains are the standard.

And you are still an idiot. Exterior drain tile was always required for NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION while both interior, exterior, sump pumps and battery back-up pumps are required in PG county. As usual, your comments have NOTHING to do with the discussion about an older home, that already has an exterior drain-as they all do-and how to remedy the situation of water intrusion. There is no Fing code in any county in MD, VA, or DC that requires a contractor doing water proofing to put in, or replace an exterior drain and hardly anyone does. It's nearly all interior drains tied to sump pumps, permitted where required. Permits are not even required for this type of work in MOCO or HOCO.

The houses in my neighborhood are 100 years old and they definitely don’t all have exterior drains. And people do excavate to add them if they want to finish the basement.

Hardly ever. Even 100-150 years ago, exterior footing drains were commonly used and building code in most places still hasn't changed much in that regard. While houses may be built to last over 100 years, the drainage scheme often doesn't perform even half that long. Today, excavating down to the footer to install a footing drain is rarely done, and not practical or even possible for many homes. Do excavate along any wall of a home means removing anything that sits along that wall. A/C units, landscaping, landscaping, concrete stoops, walkways, decks, etc. Of course, you can't remove an addition, or even a sun porch. Then, you have to dig out as far as you dig deep so an 8' deep hole has to be 8' out from the house and then that dirt has to be piled beyond that hole. You can only do that on a property with enough room and where it's safe to use an excavator which will tear up the lawn and possibly damage the roots of any trees it gets near. Digging down to the footer is risky and not really a good idea. The companies that do this work charge as much as $20,000 per wall and do not offer any kind of lifetime warranty against water intrusion. In the end, they are just laying another drain pipe down in the mud. But I'm sure you know all this. Is there some reason you keep insisting this is a good, standard practice when it's not? Again, I challenge you to show me even 3 highly rated basement waterproofing companies in the area who don't commonly do interior drains as their standard practice.

These homes weren't to last more than 20 years as they are shot shacks