The Future of Club, Rec and HS Boys Lacrosse in the DMV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need a “solution” to HoCo because it is not a problem.

If you want to “save” rec lacrosse, find a way to make it accessible and interesting to all the kids who play soccer now.

Not just this. Make it accessible to public school kids, starting at least at 5th. My kid is fortunate enough to play club but goes to public school. Not one other kid in the school (3-5 plays), it's not on the radar at the middle school (unlike baseball, basketball, cross country). Some cheap sticks, use a swax soft ball, just teach catching and no-contact scrimmage, sharks & minnows. Would make a world of difference in kids wanting to play rec b/c they'll have had the exposure.

You have to get past the female-dominated zero-risk-tolerance culture at public schools for that to happen.

Back in 5th grade my son asked whether he and his friends could bring their sticks to school so they could play catch at recess. The teachers said no - "you might use those sticks to hit each other or other kids!"

Later the teachers banned playing touch football at recess because the boys sometimes accidentally bumped into each other and touch football was "too rough" or something.

Boys won't be allowed to be boys when women are in charge.

[Anonymous]

Must be a Cavs parent.

[Anonymous]

Change is coming, but slowly.

It's being driven by the growth of the sport across the US which creates a much bigger supply of high school players for the colleges.

Once most college players came from Baltimore, Long Island and Upstate NY. Starting in the 1990's, the DMV was one of the places colleges looked. Now they look everywhere.

College recruitment here is going to wane. Look at the rosters of the top lacrosse schools to see the increasingly wide geographic spread.

Once families figure out that all this effort and money spent developing and grooming kids with slightly better than average athletic ability people will wake up.

The Gold Rush is inevitably coming to an end. It'll be a situation in which only the truly gifted get advantages in college admission. Lacrosse will be closer to what we see in other sports.

It's been a period of what economist's call "Economic Profit" in which supply was restricted. The market adjusts by producing greater supply.

Parent so the current crop of middle school and even high school lacrosse players are going to face a different world. But the guys running these youth programs are going to tr an keep the dream alive as long as they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need a “solution” to HoCo because it is not a problem.

If you want to “save” rec lacrosse, find a way to make it accessible and interesting to all the kids who play soccer now.

Not just this. Make it accessible to public school kids, starting at least at 5th. My kid is fortunate enough to play club but goes to public school. Not one other kid in the school (3-5 plays), it's not on the radar at the middle school (unlike baseball, basketball, cross country). Some cheap sticks, use a swax soft ball, just teach catching and no-contact scrimmage, sharks & minnows. Would make a world of difference in kids wanting to play rec b/c they'll have had the exposure.

Lacrosse enjoyed impressive growth last decade, but it’s membership rolls are shrinking rapidly. Club lax is too expensive for most families and there just isn’t enough scholarship money available to interest lower and middle class families. Not good for the future of sport

[Anonymous]

Lacrosse enjoyed impressive growth last decade, but it’s membership rolls are shrinking rapidly. Club lax is too expensive for most families and there just isn’t enough scholarship money available to interest lower and middle class families. Not good for the future of sport

Hard to reconcile "club lax is too expensive" with the ideas above that "there are too many club lax teams and it's killing rec lax". Not to mention, in this area we have some of the richest counties in the nation - lots of people with money for club lax.

Lacrosse has indeed grown since 2010, but what's the evidence it's "shrinking rapidly"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Lacrosse enjoyed impressive growth last decade, but it’s membership rolls are shrinking rapidly. Club lax is too expensive for most families and there just isn’t enough scholarship money available to interest lower and middle class families. Not good for the future of sport

Hard to reconcile "club lax is too expensive" with the ideas above that "there are too many club lax teams and it's killing rec lax". Not to mention, in this area we have some of the richest counties in the nation - lots of people with money for club lax.

Lacrosse has indeed grown since 2010, but what's the evidence it's "shrinking rapidly"?

Can’t speak to anything other than NVYLL, but boys and girls numbers in NVYLL plummeting over last 5 years. Great sport. Club growth fueled by wealthy population in Metro DC, but fewer kids playing rec now because playing just rec will not translate to any opportunities. Not a recipe for the sport’s growth. Without sustained growth of rec leagues, lax returns to its origins as the sport of choice for the 1%.

[Anonymous]

What data are you using to say NVYLL numbers are plummeting over the last 5 years? Look at the growth in Ashburn alone, rec programs like Dulles South, Ashburn, Western Loudoun, then add in the growth in Prince William and Stafford.

The only nvyll team I noticed not playing this year was FPYC, which went with a covid influenced small sided concept, but the kids were still out there at Oak Marr on one side of the turf while games were being played on the other.

If anything, I would say we have too many programs and not enough quality rec coaches to teach the game the way it supposed to be played. Teams like Great Falls, Vienna, Dulles South, Arlington, Fort Hunt and Alexandria have multiple teams in each age bracket, where are is the decline?

Club is making a play for the spring season, with HOCO offering multiple divisions across all age groups, but it is intentionally scheduled for Sundays (except for 2025).

It seems like most NVYLL rec teams are aligned and in some cases coached by club coaches (Dulles South, Ashburn->Cavs, BRYC & Annandale-> Top Caliber, Great Falls, McLean, and Vienna-> MadLax

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Lacrosse enjoyed impressive growth last decade, but it’s membership rolls are shrinking rapidly. Club lax is too expensive for most families and there just isn’t enough scholarship money available to interest lower and middle class families. Not good for the future of sport

Hard to reconcile "club lax is too expensive" with the ideas above that "there are too many club lax teams and it's killing rec lax". Not to mention, in this area we have some of the richest counties in the nation - lots of people with money for club lax.

Lacrosse has indeed grown since 2010, but what's the evidence it's "shrinking rapidly"?

Can’t speak to anything other than NVYLL, but boys and girls numbers in NVYLL plummeting over last 5 years. Great sport. Club growth fueled by wealthy population in Metro DC, but fewer kids playing rec now because playing just rec will not translate to any opportunities. Not a recipe for the sport’s growth. Without sustained growth of rec leagues, lax returns to its origins as the sport of choice for the 1%.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd there's one of the biggest problems. Stop viewing lacrosse as a means to an end. It's a sport for kids to play for fun. That attitude is what drives every parent into obsessing about college offers that will never come, paying thousands a year for club teams, private coaches, etc etc.

The adults are ruining the sport for the kids.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't "ruin the sport for kids" if you pay for them to join a club team. Kids that actually like the sport love being on a club team, because they play with and against other kids who love the game and work to get good at it, as opposed to a rec team where you're going to have a certain number of unmotivated and/or unskilled players.

It doesn't "ruin the sport" to pay for private coaches, either. Kids like the sport better when they get better at it.

I don't know anyone whose kid is on a club team just because his parents are making him do it "for the opportunities". Maybe they exist but it is a rare exception. Mostly parents are happy to support something their kid enjoys doing. I certainly don't make my kids do anything extracurricular that they don't want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t need a “solution” to HoCo because it is not a problem.

If you want to “save” rec lacrosse, find a way to make it accessible and interesting to all the kids who play soccer now.

Not just this. Make it accessible to public school kids, starting at least at 5th. My kid is fortunate enough to play club but goes to public school. Not one other kid in the school (3-5 plays), it's not on the radar at the middle school (unlike baseball, basketball, cross country). Some cheap sticks, use a swax soft ball, just teach catching and no-contact scrimmage, sharks & minnows. Would make a world of difference in kids wanting to play rec b/c they'll have had the exposure.

Great sport, but can’t get out of its own way.

It’s not a sport solely for the 1% anymore. It’s a 2% or 3% sport now

[Anonymous]

Let's be frank: It's an elitist sport (or for people who want to think of themselves as elitists). The privates have done a very good job at making it seem like the only way to play D1-D3 college lax is to attend their HSs. And people buy into it, so it feeds that perception. Imagine if folks attended their public schools, steadily increasing the talent pool? The privates would freak out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What data are you using to say NVYLL numbers are plummeting over the last 5 years? Look at the growth in Ashburn alone, rec programs like Dulles South, Ashburn, Western Loudoun, then add in the growth in Prince William and Stafford.

The only nvyll team I noticed not playing this year was FPYC, which went with a covid influenced small sided concept, but the kids were still out there at Oak Marr on one side of the turf while games were being played on the other.

If anything, I would say we have too many programs and not enough quality rec coaches to teach the game the way it supposed to be played. Teams like Great Falls, Vienna, Dulles South, Arlington, Fort Hunt and Alexandria have multiple teams in each age bracket, where are is the decline?

Club is making a play for the spring season, with HOCO offering multiple divisions across all age groups, but it is intentionally scheduled for Sundays (except for 2025).

It seems like most NVYLL rec teams are aligned and in some cases coached by club coaches (Dulles South, Ashburn->Cavs, BRYC & Annandale-> Top Caliber, Great Falls, McLean, and Vienna-> MadLax

Eight years ago, Alexandria had nine U9 boys teams. Now they’re lucky to have two.

[Anonymous]

From my experiences-boys and girls who play club have a better chance to excel in HS lax. If you want to play varsity for most of the public and private local high schools your kid needs to have a stick in their hand more than just in the spring. That is where the demand is for more club teams. Kids want to make and do well on a varsity team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my experiences-boys and girls who play club have a better chance to excel in HS lax. If you want to play varsity for most of the public and private local high schools your kid needs to have a stick in their hand more than just in the spring. That is where the demand is for more club teams. Kids want to make and do well on a varsity team.

Certainly not true for MOST public high schools. You can probably start as a sophomore, if not freshman, at most public HS if you play club.

I assume your statement is true for almost all local public HS that have lacrosse.

[Anonymous]

The National Association of State High School Associations has a sports participation archive. They didn't do one for 2020 because covid messed things up.

Number of boys playing high school lax in Virginia:
2018-2019: 4,734
2017-2018: 4,607
2015-2016: 4,720
2013-2014: 4,067
2011-2012: 4,047
2008-2009: 3,495

Doesn't look like it has dropped. Maybe you could argue the numbers should have increased more, given population growth. We will have to wait and see what the 2021-2022 numbers look like.