White Saviour Complex/grad school

[Anonymous]

There is a spectrum between white savior and ally. It mainly depends if there is true collaboration and partnership with the people that they are purporting to help. And if other people of the group that they are trying to help are in leadership positions. It's not as simple as, ahem, black and white

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m truly not trying to start something, but as a 60 yr old liberal who sent my kids to public schools that weren’t predominantly white, and ended up with kind level headed young adults who i think/hope are pretty solid humans- one presented a paper on mitigation of gang cartels and resources in Central America etc affecting migration. The mom white students have gone after his ‘white savior’ attitude being ‘problematic’, now I’ve looked it up and there are real important reasons we recognize the difference between patronizing causes and championing. But are we getting to a place where it isn’t acceptable to represent potential solutions in a browner world without justifying why? Anyway, just wondered if anyone has found this labeling uh... problematic.

My kid who entered college wanting to do international humanitarian work has abandoned that goal because "you just can't be a white person in that field." Just being white and wanting to apply yourself to global poverty or women's empowerment in other cultures makes you a "white savior" apparently. I do think it is a cultural moment and that the pendulum will swing again, but it makes me sad.

I am a international development professional, and you can absolutely do this work as a white person. The idea that you cannot runs 100% counter to my experience in this field, my experience as a hiring manager, and a look around my own organization and those of our peers.

If your child didn't want to do this work, that's fine, but there's no nationality or racial check. However, as white people, we need to work hard to transfer power and authority to local communities, to lift up local voices, etc. That sometimes means that we (North American, Western European, white folks) end up playing a background support role to local leadership. That is as it should be.

I think there is a disconnect between people currently working in the field and people trying to slog it out in school right now. A white graduate can absolutely get hired and successfully do this work. But, the intellectual environment at most colleges and universities right now is very toxic and I think it will continue to turn off students aiming to enter the field until the environment improves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m truly not trying to start something, but as a 60 yr old liberal who sent my kids to public schools that weren’t predominantly white, and ended up with kind level headed young adults who i think/hope are pretty solid humans- one presented a paper on mitigation of gang cartels and resources in Central America etc affecting migration. The mom white students have gone after his ‘white savior’ attitude being ‘problematic’, now I’ve looked it up and there are real important reasons we recognize the difference between patronizing causes and championing. But are we getting to a place where it isn’t acceptable to represent potential solutions in a browner world without justifying why? Anyway, just wondered if anyone has found this labeling uh... problematic.

My kid who entered college wanting to do international humanitarian work has abandoned that goal because "you just can't be a white person in that field." Just being white and wanting to apply yourself to global poverty or women's empowerment in other cultures makes you a "white savior" apparently. I do think it is a cultural moment and that the pendulum will swing again, but it makes me sad.

I am a international development professional, and you can absolutely do this work as a white person. The idea that you cannot runs 100% counter to my experience in this field, my experience as a hiring manager, and a look around my own organization and those of our peers.

If your child didn't want to do this work, that's fine, but there's no nationality or racial check. However, as white people, we need to work hard to transfer power and authority to local communities, to lift up local voices, etc. That sometimes means that we (North American, Western European, white folks) end up playing a background support role to local leadership. That is as it should be.

I think there is a disconnect between people currently working in the field and people trying to slog it out in school right now. A white graduate can absolutely get hired and successfully do this work. But, the intellectual environment at most colleges and universities right now is very toxic and I think it will continue to turn off students aiming to enter the field until the environment improves.

Maybe this is easy for me to say as a mid-career professional, but I can remember the neo-colonial and just plain clueless attitudes among my classmates and professors back when I was in grad school. Somehow Black and brown students managed to stay the course. If today's white students are so fragile that they can't defend their ideas in the classroom, how did their classmates of color make do up until now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m truly not trying to start something, but as a 60 yr old liberal who sent my kids to public schools that weren’t predominantly white, and ended up with kind level headed young adults who i think/hope are pretty solid humans- one presented a paper on mitigation of gang cartels and resources in Central America etc affecting migration. The mom white students have gone after his ‘white savior’ attitude being ‘problematic’, now I’ve looked it up and there are real important reasons we recognize the difference between patronizing causes and championing. But are we getting to a place where it isn’t acceptable to represent potential solutions in a browner world without justifying why? Anyway, just wondered if anyone has found this labeling uh... problematic.

My kid who entered college wanting to do international humanitarian work has abandoned that goal because "you just can't be a white person in that field." Just being white and wanting to apply yourself to global poverty or women's empowerment in other cultures makes you a "white savior" apparently. I do think it is a cultural moment and that the pendulum will swing again, but it makes me sad.

I am a international development professional, and you can absolutely do this work as a white person. The idea that you cannot runs 100% counter to my experience in this field, my experience as a hiring manager, and a look around my own organization and those of our peers.

If your child didn't want to do this work, that's fine, but there's no nationality or racial check. However, as white people, we need to work hard to transfer power and authority to local communities, to lift up local voices, etc. That sometimes means that we (North American, Western European, white folks) end up playing a background support role to local leadership. That is as it should be.

I know this. And I’m sad that my kid couldn’t see this because the White Savior rhetoric is so loud right now. What she came away with after three years of studying international development was that she would be unwelcome.

[Anonymous]

OP here, so I contacted DS at grad school (abroad) and inquired further. He and a female partner were tasked with joint presentation in a class on development and international conflict, each Dif ethnic backgrounds, in a class that is mixed -- he focused on Central American climate affected draught and cartels powerful influence as opium is one resource that grows with little water and as Biden already intends to send money to the region the argument was such resources should be applied in a way that citizens be empowered to make lasting change, and the partner focused on the aspect of women and the toll it takes on them and all related to the root causes of migration. At end of presentation where professor praised their work and team effort, An American student, citing her parents as UN development people, spoke to her study abroad in Honduras and how it is close to her heart and she didn't hear enough about how the citizens themselves felt, which turned into a post-presentation zoom labeling fest as he indicated the community building was his first premise. Probably he showed some exasperation as it was the end of a heavy semester and hours of research, and like many of our students on zoom all year he felt called out. It seems the 'white savior' label has been tossed around quite a bit, as throughout the year his friends have often confided to him privately to him about a number of other students they feel fit the label, so he was surprised when it was hurled his way too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, if he -- or you -- are taking it upon yourselves to define other students as "non-white" instead of as individuals with individual opinions, that's already, as you would say "problematic". It's also interesting that if, indeed, the students who are POC , without exception, are calling your son out for having a "white savior" attitude, your thought is to post anonymously on a forum that skews decidedly white and UMC to get support for this viewpoint being problematic-- instead of trying to understand and directly address the attitudes and possibly the behavior that your son's classmates brought to his attention.

DP. You're joking, right?
I teach and we have been getting non-stop training this year aimed at unveiling our hidden prejudice, in addition to being told that "being color-blind" and dealing with people as individuals instead of focusing on race is a form of aggression.
So what I've been teaching my own children for almost two decades about race being a social construct that has no basis in reality and skin pigmentation coming from melanin concentration in response to UV exposure is apparently racist, or something.
I am no longer interested in engaging on this issue and have instructed my college-aged kids to do the same. Just stay out of it to stay out of trouble.

[Anonymous]

You sound like my brother. 62 hippie super liberal

His kids are constantly pointing out things he doesn’t understand .., white savior mentality, gender issues, etc

Our generation just doesn’t see it no matter how hard we try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, so I contacted DS at grad school (abroad) and inquired further. He and a female partner were tasked with joint presentation in a class on development and international conflict, each Dif ethnic backgrounds, in a class that is mixed -- he focused on Central American climate affected draught and cartels powerful influence as opium is one resource that grows with little water and as Biden already intends to send money to the region the argument was such resources should be applied in a way that citizens be empowered to make lasting change, and the partner focused on the aspect of women and the toll it takes on them and all related to the root causes of migration. At end of presentation where professor praised their work and team effort, An American student, citing her parents as UN development people, spoke to her study abroad in Honduras and how it is close to her heart and she didn't hear enough about how the citizens themselves felt, which turned into a post-presentation zoom labeling fest as he indicated the community building was his first premise. Probably he showed some exasperation as it was the end of a heavy semester and hours of research, and like many of our students on zoom all year he felt called out. It seems the 'white savior' label has been tossed around quite a bit, as throughout the year his friends have often confided to him privately to him about a number of other students they feel fit the label, so he was surprised when it was hurled his way too.

Which university, OP?

If he still takes your advice, tell him that in such situations when insults are not explicit, he should always take things at face value... meaning not rise to the bait. It avoids creating awkwardness if the first person did not intend a personal attack, and it confuses the attacker if he or she actually intended to insult him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m truly not trying to start something, but as a 60 yr old liberal who sent my kids to public schools that weren’t predominantly white, and ended up with kind level headed young adults who i think/hope are pretty solid humans- one presented a paper on mitigation of gang cartels and resources in Central America etc affecting migration. The mom white students have gone after his ‘white savior’ attitude being ‘problematic’, now I’ve looked it up and there are real important reasons we recognize the difference between patronizing causes and championing. But are we getting to a place where it isn’t acceptable to represent potential solutions in a browner world without justifying why? Anyway, just wondered if anyone has found this labeling uh... problematic.

My kid who entered college wanting to do international humanitarian work has abandoned that goal because "you just can't be a white person in that field." Just being white and wanting to apply yourself to global poverty or women's empowerment in other cultures makes you a "white savior" apparently. I do think it is a cultural moment and that the pendulum will swing again, but it makes me sad.

I am a international development professional, and you can absolutely do this work as a white person. The idea that you cannot runs 100% counter to my experience in this field, my experience as a hiring manager, and a look around my own organization and those of our peers.

If your child didn't want to do this work, that's fine, but there's no nationality or racial check. However, as white people, we need to work hard to transfer power and authority to local communities, to lift up local voices, etc. That sometimes means that we (North American, Western European, white folks) end up playing a background support role to local leadership. That is as it should be.

I agree with this. I'm a white anthropologist who left academia in part because I didn't feel comfortable building my career around being an "expert" on a non-white community. Now I manage an applied research program, and find that academia and the consultant sector are both still so white dominated that it takes me a lot more legwork to aim for any semblance of diversity in the work we fund. The balance of power has not shifted.

OP, sometimes it hurts to be told to make space, and I'm sure it hurts worse to be told to your face rather than indirectly in reflections on a field. I empathize with your son there. But there's something in here to learn from this, too.

[Anonymous]

Haha thanks- listens to advice but rarely takes it - 22 now - he is over it and knows who he is- and probably checking himself, it’s a good thing. My interest is this seems to be a topic we should all understand ie the college professors who wrote on this thread as well as parents of students who feel they should choose another path- seems like a whole lot of misunderstanding going on.

[Anonymous]

There's the idea out there that any solution needs to at the very least get input from the population you're trying to help. I recommend reading Winners Take All: The Elite Charade of Changing the World by Anand Giridharadas

https://www.amazon.com/Winners-Take-All-Charade-Changing/dp/110197267X/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, if he -- or you -- are taking it upon yourselves to define other students as "non-white" instead of as individuals with individual opinions, that's already, as you would say "problematic". It's also interesting that if, indeed, the students who are POC , without exception, are calling your son out for having a "white savior" attitude, your thought is to post anonymously on a forum that skews decidedly white and UMC to get support for this viewpoint being problematic-- instead of trying to understand and directly address the attitudes and possibly the behavior that your son's classmates brought to his attention.

DP. You're joking, right?
I teach and we have been getting non-stop training this year aimed at unveiling our hidden prejudice, in addition to being told that "being color-blind" and dealing with people as individuals instead of focusing on race is a form of aggression.
So what I've been teaching my own children for almost two decades about race being a social construct that has no basis in reality and skin pigmentation coming from melanin concentration in response to UV exposure is apparently racist, or something.
I am no longer interested in engaging on this issue and have instructed my college-aged kids to do the same. Just stay out of it to stay out of trouble.

Nope. I’m not joking. Lumping together people from a variety of cultural backgrounds as “non-white” is focusing on what their race is NOT — as some sort of unifying characteristic. That is usually a problem. Focusing only on race as opposed to individuality is also a problem. Being “color-blind”, ignoring the reality of how people of different races are often viewed and treated is a problem. I’ve never heard of any training of any sort that suggests that teachers —or anyone— should not “deal with people as individuals “. Since I don’t know more about your “training”, I’ll stop there. The point of my comment though, was to suggest that if multiple people, from different backgrounds, are saying the same thing, that “thing” that they are saying should at least be examined to understand if the criticism has some validity.

[Anonymous]

PP - I'm white, European descent, now I know 'non white' is also off the list. The fact is that most of the world isn't WHITE hence hope we all may find a language that works for everyone to solve the world's problems together as a team. So how would the initial post have worked better. Son is white , his partner on project is Pakistani, the label of 'white savior' was started by a Eurasian student, the teacher is white Czech, and the rest of the class is made op of all colors of the rainbow. Is this more or less offensive?

[Anonymous]

PS. the label was 'white savior' so therein color is used so that is identifying a person by their race rather than their individuality as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP - I'm white, European descent, now I know 'non white' is also off the list. The fact is that most of the world isn't WHITE hence hope we all may find a language that works for everyone to solve the world's problems together as a team. So how would the initial post have worked better. Son is white , his partner on project is Pakistani, the label of 'white savior' was started by a Eurasian student, the teacher is white Czech, and the rest of the class is made op of all colors of the rainbow. Is this more or less offensive?

PP 1:14. From my personal standpoint, I would prefer the second version. It’s more individualized and it provides much more potentially useful information. I’ll add though, that, being picky, phrases like “all the colors of the rainbow” is one that would make me flinch, while acknowledging that you likely meant well when you were saying it. ( Most People really don’t resemble the “colors of the rainbow”, so there’s something a bit dismissive about tossing that one in. )

Obviously different people find different things offensive. What’s been interesting about this discussion is that since we don’t really know what prompted the “white savior “ comments, we really have no way to understand or assess the site with any degree of accuracy or even relevance.