GDS vs Beauvoir for Pre K?

[Anonymous]

This is the PP. It is not a question about being bigoted, and I'm not one. Indeed, I have known and had personal discussions with several minority families who are not comfortable with GDS' culture, and they are hardly bigoted.

It is curious though that the reflexive response by you--presumably a GDS parent--is to cry bigotry the moment anyone points out the school's culture. Is that the way GDS teaches kids to have respect for others and differing viewpoints?

[Anonymous]

Hmmm. I'm not the PP who mentioned bigotry, but must point out that minorities can be bigoted too! I won't give examples because people will jump on me. But if you think for a second, I am sure you'll know what I mean. Second, my niece goes to GDS and the school is pretty open-minded about differences and teaches the kids to be accepting of the same. Being closed about differences between people is after all the very definition of bigotry. There are people made very uncomfortable by GDS's openness to and acceptance of differences between people. Is it really bigotry to call these people bigots?

[Anonymous]

There are people made very uncomfortable by GDS's openness to and acceptance of differences between people.

I'm sure something was lost here in the attempt at brevity. What does this mean? Are there people out there who are smart enough to earn enough to spend $28K a year per kid and also believe all people should be exactly the same, with no differences between people?

[Anonymous]

Some people, including very liberal, open-minded families who have left the school, believe that the school emphasizes differences and being accepting of them to the detriment of also teaching about other important issues and ideas. That hardly makes them bigots.

Anyway, OP, the violent reaction of some posters should give you some idea of the the school's culture and how tolerant it is of differing opinions. I haven't seen any bigotry on this thread or suggestions of it, but I have seen a lot of intolerance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Either are fine schools. It really depends on the kid. GDS really doesn't have very good sports even in the higher grades...the Cathedral Schools have great sports. But if your kid isn't into sports -- then choose either school.

Not clear how you would even tell whether your 4-year-old is "into" sports, much less whether that will be a major consideration when the kid is, say, 8, much less 15.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is a good post, and the fact that GDS is really really liberal is something important to consider. I'm not knocking it; GDS is a great school, and I know several families with kids there who love it and who are very comfortable with the community and it is the perfect fit. But I also feel that some people apply there simply because it is part of the "Big Three," get in, and end up sending their kid there without really "getting" the school before enrolling. Often it still works out, but I also know of several instances where it has gone badly. Bottom line in my view is know what you are signing up for, and be sure you are comfortable with it.

It would be really helpful (and maybe cut down on the mudslinging) if you were to give specific examples of things which might make some people/parents uncomfortable. I say this because I think you're onto something important (and true about other schools); there are aspects of each school's culture which will be a bad fit for some families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are people made very uncomfortable by GDS's openness to and acceptance of differences between people.

I'm sure something was lost here in the attempt at brevity. What does this mean? Are there people out there who are smart enough to earn enough to spend $28K a year per kid and also believe all people should be exactly the same, with no differences between people?

OMG, where were you from 2000-2008?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some people, including very liberal, open-minded families who have left the school, believe that the school emphasizes differences and being accepting of them to the detriment of also teaching about other important issues and ideas. That hardly makes them bigots.

Please elaborate on this point. We've been accepted at GDS, and I would love to know what you mean by this. What issues and ideas are being neglected? Please know that I am not challenging you. If you can tell us more, that would be so helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There are people made very uncomfortable by GDS's openness to and acceptance of differences between people.

I'm sure something was lost here in the attempt at brevity. What does this mean? Are there people out there who are smart enough to earn enough to spend $28K a year per kid and also believe all people should be exactly the same, with no differences between people?

Yes, I think there are people who fit this description. There are many intelligent people who are discomfited by racial, ethnic, and religious differences. And sexual orientation can be a problem for many many smart people. People are generally more comfortable among their own "kind". GDS is unique in what it tries to foster in its students: a genuinely open mind, acceptance of all sorts of different people, celebrating human beings for who they are.

[Anonymous]

The Beauvoir life rules are respect, honesty, kindness, and responsibility. They are a big part of the everyday discussions that go on in the classroom and on the playground. I think respect covers a lot of what you're talking about here. Maybe we should extend some respect for one another's opinions here.

[Anonymous]

As much as the "GDS view" (for lack of a better phrasing) of equality and respect of all individuals, and the celebration of differences, reflects my and DH's views of the world, I have been somewhat put off by the sense that I have gotten from a few GDS parents, and the tone of two of the open house faculty speakers. This is very subjective, but I felt that these speakers in particular really seemed to be of the view that they were the only school to take the view that differences are to be respected and valued. It just seems such an obvious point to me, and an odd point the essentially be deriding other schools for. I have also gotten this sense form a few parents, and even two students. I'm all for being proud of ones school and the values taught at it, but I am concerned at the adversarial/strident tone. I have such a limited view (a relatively small number of encounters), but thought this view may articulate what some others are thinking. This was a school that I was seriously considering, and would again seriously consider at later years. We decided to apply to only one school this year, and thankfully our DD was accepted, but had we not had this (again very subjective) sense from GDS we would likely have applied there as well.

[Anonymous]

Maybe GDS is more explicit about diversity issues compared to other schools? Age appropriately, of course. GDS seems to take the approach that issues of race, ethnicity, and sexual orientation need to be discussed frankly, openly, and with a complexity that is developmentally appropriate. Some parents are not comfortable with this and believe that while the exposure to diversity is important, they do not believe that the classroom and school the appropriate venues for talking about these things, if one has to talk about them at all. (There have been other threads about this under General Parenting.) BTW, I imagine Sidwell would have a similar approach, but I'm not so sure about religiously-oriented (esp. Catholic) schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people, including very liberal, open-minded families who have left the school, believe that the school emphasizes differences and being accepting of them to the detriment of also teaching about other important issues and ideas. That hardly makes them bigots.

Please elaborate on this point. We've been accepted at GDS, and I would love to know what you mean by this. What issues and ideas are being neglected? Please know that I am not challenging you. If you can tell us more, that would be so helpful.

GDS preaches respecting different groups much more than it preaches respecting people as individuals. It can be a cold, unfriendly place. But no one cares much as long as you are respecting groups and their differences. And it is very difficult to express concerns as a parent that differ from the heterodoxy. From a curricular standpoint, should teaching about differences be paramount to teaching excellence?

If you want a feel for some of these issues about the school's areas of emphasis, as well as some of the curricular aspects, you should ask to attend the white privilege conference this Friday, and then after attending, talk to an administrator about the school's view of the conference and why it is important. Make your own judgments based on these things.

[Anonymous]

PP: I still don't understand, and I want to as we are sitting here with an acceptance letter in hand as well. Unfortunately I cannot attend the conference that you suggested. Would you be willing to provide examples of the types of things that parents have tried to challenge and not had a good response? Please also elaborate more about the conference. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

If you see having a multicultural curriculum as an objective that conflicts (or is in inherent tension) with curricular excellence, then you won't be happy with GDS. GDS starts from the premise that recognizing diverse experiences, POVs, and learning styles is a key to academic excellence.

To get down to specifics in the LS, the objections I've heard are (a) Sexual orientation shouldn't even be on the radars of PreK/K students (note that sexual orientation in this age group is discussed not in terms of sex but of relationships, different kinds of families, and identity), (b) identity in general is over-emphasized and, in particular, white kids who don't identify ethnically or religiously feel left out (or that the only identity they can claim is one based on privilege or oppression), and (c) sex ed is taught too early (second half of fourth grade, in science, starting with a biology unit on reproduction, and including the dissection of a chicken).

When the claim gets made that diversity drives out more important instruction, I think it's really a reaction to math and spelling instruction at GDS -- which is different than what most parents grew up with. There's not actually a trade-off (the Free to Be assembly doesn't pre-empt math; spelling isn't skipped to talk about white privilege instead).

Basically, in the earliest years (PreK-1st?) inventive spelling is allowed/encouraged because it fosters writing (and can reinforce phonics skills). There are still spelling lists and tests (which are corrected), but writing assignments will come home without spelling corrected. The pedagogical theory is that a sheet covered with red marks makes kids less than eager to write and that spelling improves dramatically with increased familiarity with reading (at which point you know how words look as well as how they sound). Since GDS has kids writing before they are reading, some improvisation is to be expected. Everyone I know who has been freaked out by inventive spelling has come around a few years later because, in fact, their kids had no problem learning to spell correctly and their kids enjoy writing more (and write better) than they did at that age.

The other issue is math which is more conceptual and less drill-oriented than in our youth. And even the mechanics (how you divide, for example) look different. On the one hand, I think my DC didn't master the times table as early as I did. On the other, DC was comfortable with algebraic concepts and with geometry much earlier than I was. Overall, the GDS kids do well in math on standardized tests like the ERBs (and math scores have increased with this program) and the conceptual stuff is supplemented both with drill (First in Math) and with math team type problems. The best math students can do the equivalent of two years beyond Calculus BC while still in HS. Even though differentiation doesn't start until 7th grade.

My DC is in middle school and has been at GDS since PreK. I'm very impressed with the education DC has received and excited about what's still ahead. FWIW, we're straight and white. I wanted a curriculum that took diversity seriously because, to me, that's a more intellectually rigorous and richer approach to the world than one that doesn't. There are moments when I agree with the second critique I mentioned (enough personal identity already) although probably more on the level of thinking that it starts to feel narcissistic and limiting rather than simply age-appropriate after a few years. But that's the opposite of claiming that, at GDS, identity is all about group identity and doesn't care about individuality.

Hope this helps clarify what people are talking about.