DC Shootings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prison for large swathes of the population is not the answer, and it costs a lot of money for the taxpayer. Gun control nationwide is the partial answer, as is, of course, getting out of crushing and generational economic malaise.

Citations? Imprisoning criminals doesn't reduce crime? lol

No it actually doesn't. Crime goes down when the economy is good. Read Locking Up our Own by James Farmer. Educate yourself so you don't sound so stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prison for large swathes of the population is not the answer, and it costs a lot of money for the taxpayer. Gun control nationwide is the partial answer, as is, of course, getting out of crushing and generational economic malaise.

Citations? Imprisoning criminals doesn't reduce crime? lol

No it actually doesn't. Crime goes down when the economy is good. Read Locking Up our Own by James Farmer. Educate yourself so you don't sound so stupid.

Wow, I'm stupid now? Here's a well-conducted economics paper that deals with the simultaneity problem between prison population and offending and finds that a reduction in the imprisoned population has a huge impact on increase in crimes:

https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/111/2/319/1938359

But, I guess you "read a book" by a law professor who doesn't understand how to do quantitative analysis so you're now perfectly informed on the topic. COngrats.

[Anonymous]

Jeff I've also been in DC since '86 (when I was 3, lol.) I think the PP who mentioner gentrification and reduced territory may be onto something. My direct experiences with areas that have become highly gentrified also suggest an increasing disparity and desperation in those neighborhoods. It makes sense that the crews/dealers are working with less space and heightened tension and that leads to more conflict. It really rubs in the whole "DC government and the world at large only care about the white, rich population- I have no chance to make it" mentality that leads young men down this path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prison for large swathes of the population is not the answer, and it costs a lot of money for the taxpayer. Gun control nationwide is the partial answer, as is, of course, getting out of crushing and generational economic malaise.

Citations? Imprisoning criminals doesn't reduce crime? lol

No it actually doesn't. Crime goes down when the economy is good. Read Locking Up our Own by James Farmer. Educate yourself so you don't sound so stupid.

Wow, I'm stupid now? Here's a well-conducted economics paper that deals with the simultaneity problem between prison population and offending and finds that a reduction in the imprisoned population has a huge impact on increase in crimes:

https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/111/2/319/1938359

But, I guess you "read a book" by a law professor who doesn't understand how to do quantitative analysis so you're now perfectly informed on the topic. COngrats.

lol. or maybe the rest of us have different ethics than economists and actually think the rights of the “marginal prisoner” matter too.

the US has the highest imprisonment rate and a really high crime rate. it’s the guns, poverty, and structural racism.

[Anonymous]

Except prevalence of guns in the united states is associated with reduced violent crime.

Policing works. Incarceration works.

Any policy that fails to work in a small scale (e.g. gun restrictions) should not be attempted at a larger scale.

Especially when that genie is already out of the bottle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prison for large swathes of the population is not the answer, and it costs a lot of money for the taxpayer. Gun control nationwide is the partial answer, as is, of course, getting out of crushing and generational economic malaise.

Citations? Imprisoning criminals doesn't reduce crime? lol

No it actually doesn't. Crime goes down when the economy is good. Read Locking Up our Own by James Farmer. Educate yourself so you don't sound so stupid.

Wow, I'm stupid now? Here's a well-conducted economics paper that deals with the simultaneity problem between prison population and offending and finds that a reduction in the imprisoned population has a huge impact on increase in crimes:

https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/111/2/319/1938359

But, I guess you "read a book" by a law professor who doesn't understand how to do quantitative analysis so you're now perfectly informed on the topic. COngrats.

lol. or maybe the rest of us have different ethics than economists and actually think the rights of the “marginal prisoner” matter too.

the US has the highest imprisonment rate and a really high crime rate. it’s the guns, poverty, and structural racism.

Well thank you for your univariate analysis with the US as a single unit of observation

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:It seems like every day there are multiple shootings in DC. Many of them are full out gunfights that you might expect in the O.K. Corral -- multiple shooters and 10s of bullets flying everywhere. I moved to DC in 1986 in the midst of the crack epidemic when daily murders were a normal thing. But we knew what they were tied to drugs. Now, I have no idea what is provoking these shootings and I see no discussion of the causes anywhere (there maybe some that I've missed). Does anyone have any idea what is going on?

I, for one, thank you for not only allowing, but also starting this thread. A well-known DC blog has banished all discussion about crime.

I can understand that blog's position because such discussions so often turn very racist very fast. I really had a lot of trepidation about starting this thread for fear that it would go the same way. I am really happy to see that even the posters I didn't exactly agree with have kept discussion serious and reasonable. I hope it will stay that way.

[Anonymous]

DC Youth Rehabilitation Act is a disaster, because there is no 'rehabilitation'. I have worked with these youth. They are raised by each other, once you 'jump in' you 'can't jump out' etc. Defund the police will NOT work without funded interventions for all levels of other crimes" playing hooky, jumping turnstiles, grafitti, property damage, boosting cars, theft, armed robbery, armed assault, substance abuse, secual assault, mental health issues, group home supervision, foster homes, etc.

[Anonymous]

(same poster) OR, stand back and let everyone murder each other. It tends to be contained with a little spillover. Sorry, but that's the truth. I worked with this crowd (who one one are promising, intelligent, adorable etc.) and most of their life altering (meaning ending) crimes were aimed at each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except prevalence of guns in the united states is associated with reduced violent crime.

Policing works. Incarceration works.

Any policy that fails to work in a small scale (e.g. gun restrictions) should not be attempted at a larger scale.

Especially when that genie is already out of the bottle.

if it works, why does the US have astronomically high gun violence and imprisonment rates compared to other countries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prison for large swathes of the population is not the answer, and it costs a lot of money for the taxpayer. Gun control nationwide is the partial answer, as is, of course, getting out of crushing and generational economic malaise.

Citations? Imprisoning criminals doesn't reduce crime? lol

No it actually doesn't. Crime goes down when the economy is good. Read Locking Up our Own by James Farmer. Educate yourself so you don't sound so stupid.

Wow, I'm stupid now? Here's a well-conducted economics paper that deals with the simultaneity problem between prison population and offending and finds that a reduction in the imprisoned population has a huge impact on increase in crimes:

https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/111/2/319/1938359

But, I guess you "read a book" by a law professor who doesn't understand how to do quantitative analysis so you're now perfectly informed on the topic. COngrats.

lol. or maybe the rest of us have different ethics than economists and actually think the rights of the “marginal prisoner” matter too.

the US has the highest imprisonment rate and a really high crime rate. it’s the guns, poverty, and structural racism.

Well thank you for your univariate analysis with the US as a single unit of observation

thank you for your 30yr old article by a celebrity economist.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:It seems like every day there are multiple shootings in DC. Many of them are full out gunfights that you might expect in the O.K. Corral -- multiple shooters and 10s of bullets flying everywhere. I moved to DC in 1986 in the midst of the crack epidemic when daily murders were a normal thing. But we knew what they were tied to drugs. Now, I have no idea what is provoking these shootings and I see no discussion of the causes anywhere (there maybe some that I've missed). Does anyone have any idea what is going on?

I, for one, thank you for not only allowing, but also starting this thread. A well-known DC blog has banished all discussion about crime.

I can understand that blog's position because such discussions so often turn very racist very fast. I really had a lot of trepidation about starting this thread for fear that it would go the same way. I am really happy to see that even the posters I didn't exactly agree with have kept discussion serious and reasonable. I hope it will stay that way.

I think it's cordial because you started it. I actually wish you would start more discussion threads -- anything from deep thoughts about society to what color socks people are wearing today. In a sea of Anonymous bickering, having not only a registered poster but the website owner in the convo keeps topics on track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion it’s nothing complicated or mind bending.
Simple case of a gradual shift in culture with regard to how conflicts are resolved coupled with a gradual shift in commerce with regard to the availability of firearms.

When I was growing up in the 80’s the cultural norm in DC was that dudes fought. Like actually put their hands up at school or on the basketball court or on the street corner (wherever) and straight up fought somebody they had a problem with.

Feelings got hurt and asses got whupped but dudes lived to see another day and ultimately shit got squashed. That was the culture.

Also one of the main reasons that shootings were primarily drug/gang related when I was growing up in the 80’s was because not only was the cultural norm that only drug dealers and gang members carried guns but economically the o my people who could afford things like pagers and cell phones and guns were drug dealers and gang members.

Fast forward a few years and by the time I’m a sophomore in high school I had a pager. Everyone had one. And gradually more and more people were getting cell phones and yea...guns too. The commerce side shifted and made shit more accessible and affordable.

That fast forward a few years saw a cultural shift as well with regard to conflicts. With all that crack money flowing and every drug dealer and gang member trying to be a baller and rocking bling and popping bottles in clubs disputes became less about who can whip who’s ass but who has the artillery to back up their big talk.

Average everyday dudes started getting guns cause the culture started shifting away from fists towards firearms and the commerce started shifting towards more available and affordable guns.

Basically things just changed.
In my teens dudes fought and nobody was packing.
Nowadays dudes rarely throw down they simply track for their gun when confronted cause everybody is packing.

Least that’s my take.

I was the early poster about beefs between crews. I think this post explains it so much better. It's not just about territory, it's about the cultural shift that led from fistfights to gunfights + easy availability of firearms. Remember the opening sequence of Fresh Prince of Bel-Air? Nowadays, that fight on the basketball court would not be about Will being twirled around in the air before getting a black eye. It would be him getting bullets. I don't know the answer to eliminating crime, but I do know it has to address both the culture and availability issues. Culture requires a community change. It will take some time -- we devolved in a generation, and it will take another generation to get back to the thriving, self-respecting black communities our grandparents and great-grandparents grew up in. Availability requires policy + business change. It seems like firearms are so entrenched that we could never remove them all. But like all mechanical objects, they eventually wear out. It's really hard to find a rotary telephone, a hand-cranked automobile, and other technological marvels. Here's hoping for the day that handguns that fit in your pocket will be impossible to find.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Beefs between crews. With gentrification, there's less turf for crews to stake as their own, so they're pushed into closer proximity (higher density low income housing) where there's more opportunity for conflict. Similar with drug dealers competing over fewer customers in gentrifying neighborhoods. Throw in all the social and economic disruptions from COVID, with large swathes of young men having nothing productive to do with their days and a lot of rage to express, and you have a recipe for violence.

This.

Not sure what you expect when you move into urban areas. There will always be ebbs and flows of violence based on the factors PP mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Disrespect demands a response. Beefs need to be settled. High capacity magazines.