How “Honest” Are Counselors about Choices?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eh, guidance counselors are a joke. They have their own interests. My son went to public school and his gc kept suggesting Rutgers. He told her, "I hate New Jersey; I wouldn't go to any school in that state even if that's the only place I got in." She discouraged him from applying anywhere else.

He went to Stanford. He sent her a postcard.

Public school and private school guidance counselors are a world apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD gets all As and Bs at a DC private school, high 1400s on the one SAT she took so far. She has some interesting extracurriculars. She hasn’t won any awards, has no “hooks,” isn’t into varsity sports. She’s a good kid, works hard, but there are kids at her school who are true standouts. She’s just not at that level.

DD has very high-ranked schools on her list that she’s discussed with her counselor. The counselor said things like, “well, those are pretty hard to get into,” but hasn’t come right out and said she should probably not waste an ED on them. She has some safety schools on the list, too, but she truly thinks she has a shot at the top ones on her list. She constantly talks about which one she might apply ED.

I love my kid and don’t want to be the one to burst her bubble, but unless she does a lot better on the SAT (if she even takes it again) and somehow distinguishes herself, I just don’t see her being able to “beat out” these superstars that will apply to the same universities.

How honest are counselors generally with their students and is, “X is hard to get into” a euphemism for, “you probably won’t get accepted”? I assume once school starts again the counselors will have more serious talks with the students. But would they really come right out and say, “if you want to ED, why not consider.....” and give realistic options?

I want her to make her own decisions, but with honest guidance from the counselor. I’m just worried she might get the, “apply where you really want to go,” talk.

My DD was exactly like your DD - same stats, no hooks. She did not get into the one reach school on her list - Vassar. She got in everywhere else she applied and didn't dwell on it. I agree with you, you want your DD to have appropriate expectations. It's still very early in the process, I wouldn't worry about it yet.

[Anonymous]

Help her divide the list into reaches, matches, and safeties. Make a little spreadsheet or even just a list with the score ranges and acceptance rates for each, including the ED and overall rates.

I'd remind her that it's ok to have reaches even if acceptance is unlikely. As long as there are matches (and safeties) on the list, it will work out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe tell her to ask more pointed question to the counselor, e.g. “have any unhooked student with my stats got to school X in the past 3 years? What % of the students like me have been rejected?” With my son, after questions like these it became clear that HYP are futile.

This is good advice. It also makes it less personal and emotional and more about the data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe tell her to ask more pointed question to the counselor, e.g. “have any unhooked student with my stats got to school X in the past 3 years? What % of the students like me have been rejected?” With my son, after questions like these it became clear that HYP are futile.

They probably don't want responsibility for what should be her decision.

Look at the stats, discuss them with her. Especially a Naviance scatterplot if you have access to one.

Let her decide.

My daughter was in the lower 25% for her reaches, but she applied because those schools looked like a great fit for her. She did not get in. We were at peace with that.
I was glad I did not tell her not to bother. She can read and do math.

It is time to share the facts with her and let her start making these judgement calls. Don't blame the counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m AA and have several friends who are HYPS grads who were discouraged from applying and instead steered towards UIUC, GWU, Rutgers, Rochester by guidance counselors. I had such a different experience in HS and in fact wish that I’d taken my GC’s advice. I’ve seen my friends’ experiences echoed in some of the Black@“eliteschoolname” posts on IG this year. My takeaway is that GCs are a crapshoot and their advice should be taken with a grain of salt, unless families you know and trust with similar profiles vouch for them.

Did you ever think this was b/c HYPS schools are hard to get into and not about race. How do you know that the same guidance counselors didn’t give similar advice to white students.

It is possible that the AA students had lower stats than white/Asian students applying from the same school. I've glad that they were able to thrive nevertheless. Signed - mother of a minority students who knows that he gets some slack.

[Anonymous]

We have used CollegeVine's admissions calculator to get a sense of which colleges are targets/reaches/likelies for two of our kids. From our experience it gives a fairly good sense, though on the optimistic side in some cases. Have compared its assessment with those of an independent college consultant and they are very similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Usually they suggest applying to 7:

2 reaches
2 safeties
5 good bets

The guidance counselor probably doesn’t want to crush your kid’s spirit and has probably had her fill of parents who think their kid is Ivy League material when they’re not.

That adds up to 9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually they suggest applying to 7:

2 reaches
2 safeties
5 good bets

The guidance counselor probably doesn’t want to crush your kid’s spirit and has probably had her fill of parents who think their kid is Ivy League material when they’re not.

That adds up to 9.

Congratulations - you've passed 2nd grade.

[Anonymous]

Jealous much?

[Anonymous]

The total number of schools applied to doesn’t matter. 7 apps is low (my opinion).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oops,forgot to ask. Does her school’s GC involve the parents? Perhaps you could ask more specific information with your DD in the room.

OP here. The counselors do periodically involve the parents but they stress how it is really important for the student to be the driver of the situation. I think as a PP said this is probably in large part due to all the parents insisting their kids are ivy material when they are not. I am exactly the opposite. I think she would do fine if she got in, but I don’t think she has the kind of stats and stand-out awards or activities to be selected for admission.

I would prefer she hear it from the counselor than me, because I want her to feel I am supportive of what she wants. But I hope the counselor will help her see reality so that I can help support that in the end.

It would be next to impossible for her to get into 5 of her choices, and I don’t want her to feel really bad about her backup choices. Since she is determined to do ED, I want her to be happy about the choice, not just to settle. I guess I’d hoped that the counselor would help her to start thinking about these things over the summer rather than have the reality-check when she goes back to school. She would have had longer to process and come to terms with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe tell her to ask more pointed question to the counselor, e.g. “have any unhooked student with my stats got to school X in the past 3 years? What % of the students like me have been rejected?” With my son, after questions like these it became clear that HYP are futile.

This is good advice. It also makes it less personal and emotional and more about the data.

OP again. This does sound like good advice. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It would be next to impossible for her to get into 5 of her choices, and I don’t want her to feel really bad about her backup choices.

Five is a lot of reach schools. How many "match" schools does she have? Safety schools?

I have liked the advice to make sure the student has at least one safety that they could happily see themselves at. Then if she doesn't get into her reach schools (not too surprising), and even worse, doesn't get into her match schools (much more surprising), there's still an outcome that she can live with.

[Anonymous]

has she looked at the apps? i think many kids get discouraged by the extra essays many top colleges require so unless they are passionate they naturally self select to just a few reaches.