What is considered a strong wisc fsiq score/percentage for AAP appeals?

[Anonymous]

^AAP is the main way to receive advanced math or advanced language arts. How does it make sense to place a 135 IQ, high GBRS, all 4s, advanced student in regular math and grade level language arts?

How exactly can the committee even judge who needs or doesn’t need AAP from a fairly generic file that they’re spending 5 minutes reading? It’s not like they’ve even met or interacted with the kids.

[Anonymous]

I agree, how can they judge ineligibility even with such a good WISC score. How long it took for you to get results back?

[Anonymous]

There is no guaranteed score, as it is possible to even game a WISC. The test becomes unreliable if taken multiple times in a short period. But, I have seen people do that. They go for multiple tests until the score improves to the 132 number. For some, the cost of the WISC is not significant.

If you go to different providers, the retaking may not be known....

On the down side, a low energy day can result in a lower score, even on the WISC.

The long term observations are important and are harder to game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no guaranteed score, as it is possible to even game a WISC. The test becomes unreliable if taken multiple times in a short period. But, I have seen people do that. They go for multiple tests until the score improves to the 132 number. For some, the cost of the WISC is not significant.

If you go to different providers, the retaking may not be known....

On the down side, a low energy day can result in a lower score, even on the WISC.

The long term observations are important and are harder to game.

It depends. 2nd grade teachers are poor at identifying gifted behavior. Often, pretty handwriting, organization, and compliance sway the teacher more than actual gifted traits. My highly gifted kid got horrible scores in the motivation to succeed category. Once, the teacher was working on 2 digit addition, and my kid independently was teaching himself the addition and subtraction rules for numbers in binary. The teacher was upset that DS didn't follow her lesson. Another time, she was upset that he was reluctant to read the magic treehouse book she wanted him to read. He read it in K and was currently reading Percy Jackson. The teacher actually gave negative comments on the GBRS form that he wasn't motivated to learn. A few years later, that same "unmotivated" kid is spending hours per day in his summer teaching himself geometry and learning scratch. Most 2nd grade teachers are far from being gifted, themselves. They wouldn't know giftedness if it bit them on the a**

Also, many completely average upper middle class kids will appear advanced in 2nd grade from all of the enrichment they receive.

No system is perfect, but testing is at this point the least biased and least easy to game. Or at least, the people who can afford to game the WISC are going to find a way to game any system FCPS creates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's a long standing pattern. There are always the outlier kids who are clearly gifted and not admitted. Why? Because those kids are great kids who will be successful anywhere and everywhere. Other gifted kids might not be. This is my theory, you may have a different one.

It actually isn't a longstanding pattern. If you look at previous admission threads, the scores seemed to carry much more weight than they do now. Also, in the past, quite a lot of people got in without submitting anything at all. Nowadays, you need a full packet, because the committee wants all of the extra 'holistic' stuff. In the past, a 130+ WISC was almost a guaranteed IN on appeals. Now, it's really dodgy.

My theory is that FCPS has become hyper aware of prepping, privilege, and the racial/economic gaps in the program, and they're doing a lot of weird social engineering when they make their AAP decisions. I think they make weird guesses from their 10 minute glance at the packet as to whether they think the kid was prepped or is just the product of hyper-involved parents + tons of enrichment. I also think that any parent who is clever can carefully craft an appeals letter to present any bright, somewhat advanced kid as "needing AAP."

[Anonymous]

It's a long standing pattern. You can see it going back decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a long standing pattern. You can see it going back decades.

I don't remember ever seeing a WISC > 130 get rejected before about 2017. It used to be considered solid. Also, people who were randomly rejected with high stats always used to get in on appeal. Now, they don't necessarily.
Decades ago, you needed a 140 WISC to get in. The requirements have become increasingly holistic since then.

[Anonymous]

I really think WISC over 130 should get in almost automatically. Unless maybe source of the WISC is shady in the yes of FCPS? Problem is CogAT and NNAT should not be taken as same thing as WISC at all, and WISC is too expensive to administer to everyone. Bright kids who would get 110-120is IQ in WISC can easily be prepped to have 130+ CogAT and they will have good GBRS therefore will be admitted to AAP.

Reality is that AAP is not a gifted program, and 2nd grader teachers are not looking to identify gifted kids but rather kids who will do well in AAP program. This is contrary to what GBRS stands for, so it is ironic, but it is what it is at this point in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no guaranteed score, as it is possible to even game a WISC. The test becomes unreliable if taken multiple times in a short period. But, I have seen people do that. They go for multiple tests until the score improves to the 132 number. For some, the cost of the WISC is not significant.

If you go to different providers, the retaking may not be known....

On the down side, a low energy day can result in a lower score, even on the WISC.

The long term observations are important and are harder to game.

Then any subsequent test is invalid and they are cheating. There should be a minimum of 3 years between tests and no psychologist will give back to back tests unless the parent is lying and doesn’t tell them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no guaranteed score, as it is possible to even game a WISC. The test becomes unreliable if taken multiple times in a short period. But, I have seen people do that. They go for multiple tests until the score improves to the 132 number. For some, the cost of the WISC is not significant.

If you go to different providers, the retaking may not be known....

On the down side, a low energy day can result in a lower score, even on the WISC.

The long term observations are important and are harder to game.

Then any subsequent test is invalid and they are cheating. There should be a minimum of 3 years between tests and no psychologist will give back to back tests unless the parent is lying and doesn’t tell them.

A WISC would be so much harder and more expensive to game than simply prepping the kid really well for CogAT or prepping the kid to look advanced to the 2nd grade teacher. Any kid who can be prepped to a 130 WISC can be prepped much more easily to a much higher CogAT, since CogAT covers much less ground than WISC. There are also so many prep camps, classes and books for NNAT and CogAT, but none for WISC.

No measure is perfect, but the WISC is by far the most reliable one. It makes no sense to reject kids with over a 130 FSIQ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not that they are excluded. It's that they do not need the program and are better in the general education classes. The program has always been like this, this isn't new.

- parent of one kid who needs the program and one who doesn't.

That is some serious BS. You're deluding yourself if you think that most of the kids in AAP need the program and couldn't be educated in a regular classroom. Most school systems across the country can educate the kids who are somewhat advanced and have IQs around 120 in a regular classroom. What makes FCPS so special that somewhat bright, somewhat advanced kids are not educable without a special program?

A kid with a 135 IQ is in the 99th percentile and is gifted by any definition. If that kid is not exhibiting "gifted traits" in a regular classroom or is not advanced, that kid actually needs a gifted program more than your somewhat above average, somewhat bright, organized people pleaser with the high GBRS. The 135 IQ, low GBRS kid is demonstrating that the general education classroom is a terrible fit for that kid, while the somewhat advanced, high GBRS kid is demonstrating that they will bloom wherever they're planted.

- Parent of one kid who doesn't need AAP, got in anyway, and is indistinguishable from all of the other kids in AAP (who also don't need AAP despite their parents' delusions), and one kid who needs AAP but effectively didn't receive it due to the watering down of the program.

I totally agree with this poster and I have similar kids. The myth that kids "need" this program is propagated by parents who want to feel good about their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this "holistic" approach is why AAP standards have gone down so much. It is ridiculous that someone with a 135 FSIQ wouldn't get in. I can understand why GBRS can be used to support kids who may have had a bad testing day but who have consistently shown a very strong work ethic or strong analytical skills... but to exclude kids who make the pool or are above cutoff scores in the WISC? I don't get why anyone thinks this is a good system.

It’s not a good system.

It should be 20% black kids.

There aren't even 20% black kids in the entire county.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fairfaxcountyvirginia