Should Aristide Return?

[Anonymous]

we should just give Haiti to Cuba. Let them govern it.

You do realize that Haiti isn't ours to give, right? It is not a territory of the US, but a completely autonomous nation with centuries of independence behind it.

Moron.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the latest news, there is one station that has been able to transmit without interruption, and apparently the problem wasn't that Preval refused to be interviewed, but that they couldn't contact him. Preval went on record saying, " "There are virtually no (working) telephones ... It is even hard to call or meet the prime minister." I just don't think any of us can comprehend the enormity of the catastrophe and how difficult it is to get even basic things done, much less a press event.

In terms of international media who have the benefit of satellite technology, etc., Preval has been more prominent - he has given interviews (and been forced to contend with some seriously dumb questioning) to Reuters, CNN, Le Monde, Euronews, etc.

That doesn't correspond to statements from Signal FM as reported by the Washington Post: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34917528/ns/world_news-washington_post//

In it, this is what Signal FM had to say:

Mario Viau, the owner of Signal FM, a major radio station based in the wealthy hillside community of Petionville, said he sent his employees out into the city to search for a government official to speak on the air. None could be found. He then appealed over the radio for an official to visit his station and deliver public service announcements, ranging from how to find a missing relative to how to dispose of a dead body. What he received was a representative from Préval's office, who delivered a taped message from the president urging calm. "We didn't feel like we had a government," Viau said. "But I wanted to put some kind of government on the radio. We have a president who doesn't like to talk at all."

I'm not sure what is contradictory in the information you provided. The original post says that the radio station couldn't contact Preval. Your post says the same thing, but adds that Preval responded to a radio broadcast. If Preval is at the airport, which I assume he is, it would take nearly an hour to get to Petionville in the best of times. Given the situation now, getting there and back could take most of the day. Assuming he is involved in managing the relief effort, it's probably better for him to stay where he is (but, in fact, I have no idea if he is doing anything. The Americans may well be in charge at this point).

Certainly a huge number of errors are being made in Haiti. It is pretty easy to second-guess, especially from the comfort of Washington. But, with Haiti's government essentially destroyed, rebuilding it will be a long and difficult process. Preval likely will not survive it, but there is no reason to hurry him out the door.

I guess it is fair to say that any return of Aristide is probably going to have some unsettling side effects, so I guess you are right on that. But I am still not satisfied about Preval. He isn't talking to people. I understand that it is difficult to take the time to get out, but people are asking to hear from him and a single taped address isn't cutting it. Crises demand communication. We may underestimate how bad it is, but we are bombarded 24x7 with information. They are not.

As for the travel, some of my friends are in the Delmas 90's and 100's and they have been out to the palace, over to the slums, etc. and they are taking care of street kids so their life is no picnic right now. They want to know what is going on and they are going out to look for themselves and talk to people in other aid organizations. It can be done.

[Anonymous]

centuries of independence? not sure I would call what they have created and suffered through to be "independence". show me an example of a more dysfunctional govt. look at the photos from space of the island - the DR, hardly a wealthy country, has maintained its natural resources, developed a thriving tourist and agricultural industry, and is slowing climbing out of poverty. But just miles away and sharing the same island, Haiti falls further and further behind. They simply cannot govern themselves. The Cuba comment was likely a joke, but someone (hopefully not the US, although more infrastructure was built and more progress was made in the decades under US control than anytime in Haitian history) need to step in and provide law and order and the foundation for progress.

the one blessing of this horrible natural tragedy is the chance to start over from scratch.

[Anonymous]

centuries of independence? not sure I would call what they have created and suffered through to be "independence". show me an example of a more dysfunctional govt. look at the photos from space of the island - the DR, hardly a wealthy country, has maintained its natural resources, developed a thriving tourist and agricultural industry, and is slowing climbing out of poverty. But just miles away and sharing the same island, Haiti falls further and further behind. They simply cannot govern themselves. The Cuba comment was likely a joke, but someone (hopefully not the US, although more infrastructure was built and more progress was made in the decades under US control than anytime in Haitian history) need to step in and provide law and order and the foundation for progress.

the one blessing of this horrible natural tragedy is the chance to start over from scratch.

I hardly even know what to say to this comment it is so appalling. This type of colonialist thought is so 19th century. "They can't govern themselves?" Please. Learn some history of the region.

Independence does not relate to the level of development - political or otherwise - of a country. It has to do with a recognized legal status. Haiti's independence is not in dispute.

If you want to find a culprit for the some of the political dysfunction, instead of blaming Haitians' inherent inability to govern, try reading some of the history of the CIA in Haiti. This is not some random conspiracy theory. It is documented fact that the US has engaged in decade after decade of activity to destabilize Haiti, including everything from lower-profile covert operations up to its active role in deposing Aristide. So, you might be able to see the irony in your repeated self-congratulations of the US.

I don't know exactly what you mean that Haiti is going to have a chance to "start over from scratch". Yes, there is going to be a lot of physical reconstruction going on, but I don't think it is likely that Haiti is going to completely re-design its government, culture, etc. during the process, and it is that for which you seem to have the most disdain.

There is no blessing - none - about this tragedy. Try to move your paternalistic thinking ahead a few centuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

centuries of independence? not sure I would call what they have created and suffered through to be "independence". show me an example of a more dysfunctional govt. look at the photos from space of the island - the DR, hardly a wealthy country, has maintained its natural resources, developed a thriving tourist and agricultural industry, and is slowing climbing out of poverty. But just miles away and sharing the same island, Haiti falls further and further behind. They simply cannot govern themselves. The Cuba comment was likely a joke, but someone (hopefully not the US, although more infrastructure was built and more progress was made in the decades under US control than anytime in Haitian history) need to step in and provide law and order and the foundation for progress.

the one blessing of this horrible natural tragedy is the chance to start over from scratch.

I hardly even know what to say to this comment it is so appalling. This type of colonialist thought is so 19th century. "They can't govern themselves?" Please. Learn some history of the region.

Independence does not relate to the level of development - political or otherwise - of a country. It has to do with a recognized legal status. Haiti's independence is not in dispute.

If you want to find a culprit for the some of the political dysfunction, instead of blaming Haitians' inherent inability to govern, try reading some of the history of the CIA in Haiti. This is not some random conspiracy theory. It is documented fact that the US has engaged in decade after decade of activity to destabilize Haiti, including everything from lower-profile covert operations up to its active role in deposing Aristide. So, you might be able to see the irony in your repeated self-congratulations of the US.

I don't know exactly what you mean that Haiti is going to have a chance to "start over from scratch". Yes, there is going to be a lot of physical reconstruction going on, but I don't think it is likely that Haiti is going to completely re-design its government, culture, etc. during the process, and it is that for which you seem to have the most disdain.

There is no blessing - none - about this tragedy. Try to move your paternalistic thinking ahead a few centuries.


Actually, the U.S. role in destabilizing Haiti goes back further than the inception of the CIA. The U.S. active role in keeping Haiti at its heel goes back as far as the 1800's. Other than that PP your post was on point and the the person who called the destruction of a country, the deaths of more than 100,000+ people, the homelessness of two-million a blessing is a despicable wretch of what could not possibly be called a human being.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:... Other than that PP your post was on point and the the person who called the destruction of a country, the deaths of more than 100,000+ people, the homelessness of two-million a blessing is a despicable wretch of what could not possibly be called a human being.

I have not written on this thread and have no special knowledge of Haiti, but I'd like to interject this reaction: Calling someone an inhuman wretch because (s)he tried to find some silver lining on this terrible cloud is unnecessarily personal. Disagree with someone -- that's fine. But I think you make your own case more effectively if you leave off the insults.

Apologies if that sounded pedantic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:... Other than that PP your post was on point and the the person who called the destruction of a country, the deaths of more than 100,000+ people, the homelessness of two-million a blessing is a despicable wretch of what could not possibly be called a human being.

I have not written on this thread and have no special knowledge of Haiti, but I'd like to interject this reaction: Calling someone an inhuman wretch because (s)he tried to find some silver lining on this terrible cloud is unnecessarily personal. Disagree with someone -- that's fine. But I think you make your own case more effectively if you leave off the insults.

Apologies if that sounded pedantic.

Pedantic, no it was not bookish at all. However, how do you find a silver lining in such misery. Yes, I was personal and stand by my comment. There is too much devastation and personal misery going on in Haiti to think that such destruction was the best thing for those people. The pp poster threw the first insult with her patronizing, paternalistic meanderings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:... Other than that PP your post was on point and the the person who called the destruction of a country, the deaths of more than 100,000+ people, the homelessness of two-million a blessing is a despicable wretch of what could not possibly be called a human being.

I have not written on this thread and have no special knowledge of Haiti, but I'd like to interject this reaction: Calling someone an inhuman wretch because (s)he tried to find some silver lining on this terrible cloud is unnecessarily personal. Disagree with someone -- that's fine. But I think you make your own case more effectively if you leave off the insults.

Apologies if that sounded pedantic.

Pedantic, no it was not bookish at all. However, how do you find a silver lining in such misery. Yes, I was personal and stand by my comment. There is too much devastation and personal misery going on in Haiti to think that such destruction was the best thing for those people. The pp poster threw the first insult with her patronizing, paternalistic meanderings.

New to the fray here. I don't think the poster trying to find a silver lining in tragedy was meaning to upset anyone. If you cannot find hope for the future in the midst of such misery, what reason to you have to slog on? Hope doesn't negate in any way the terrible loss.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
New to the fray here. I don't think the poster trying to find a silver lining in tragedy was meaning to upset anyone. If you cannot find hope for the future in the midst of such misery, what reason to you have to slog on? Hope doesn't negate in any way the terrible loss.

The poster's entire post was problematic (blaming Haitians for all their problems and suggesting it is not within their ability to govern), but he/she didn't simply suggest hope for the future. He/she said there was a "blessing" in the earthquake. Maybe it was a poor choice of words that the poster might want to retract, but I don't think you will find anyone in Haiti that would be willing to trade a rebuilt Haiti for all the lives that have been lost. If you had the opportunity to sacrifice the lives of family and friends in exchange for a new house, would you consider the opportunity to be a blessing? And, if you did, what would that say about your humanity?

[Anonymous]

Confucius say "He who has foot in mouth is already uncomfortable enough without being kicked about."
In a time that calls for charity, be charitable to all.

[Anonymous]

There was an interesting article on this topic that was published in the Barbados Nation a few days ago and reprinted in most major publications throughout the West Indies:


The hate and the quake


Published on: 1/17/2010.



BY SIR HILARY BECKLES


THE UNIVERSITY OF THE WEST INDIES is in the process of conceiving how best to deliver a major conference on the theme Rethinking And Rebuilding Haiti.

I am very keen to provide an input into this exercise because for too long there has been a popular perception that somehow the Haitian nation-building project, launched on January 1, 1804, has failed on account of mismanagement, ineptitude, corruption.

Buried beneath the rubble of imperial propaganda, out of both Western Europe and the United States, is the evidence which shows that Haiti's independence was defeated by an aggressive North-Atlantic alliance that could not imagine their world inhabited by a free regime of Africans as representatives of the newly emerging democracy.

The evidence is striking, especially in the context of France.

The Haitians fought for their freedom and won, as did the Americans fifty years earlier. The Americans declared their independence and crafted an extraordinary constitution that set out a clear message about the value of humanity and the right to freedom, justice, and liberty.

In the midst of this brilliant discourse, they chose to retain slavery as the basis of the new nation state. The founding fathers therefore could not see beyond race, as the free state was built on a slavery foundation.

The water was poisoned in the well; the Americans went back to the battlefield a century later to resolve the fact that slavery and freedom could not comfortably co-exist in the same place.

The French, also, declared freedom, fraternity and equality as the new philosophies of their national transformation and gave the modern world a tremendous progressive boost by so doing.

They abolished slavery, but Napoleon Bonaparte could not imagine the republic without slavery and targeted the Haitians for a new, more intense regime of slavery. The British agreed, as did the Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese.

All were linked in communion over the 500 000 Blacks in Haiti, the most populous and prosperous Caribbean colony.

As the jewel of the Caribbean, they all wanted to get their hands on it. With a massive slave base, the English, French and Dutch salivated over owning it - and the people.

The people won a ten-year war, the bloodiest in modern history, and declared their independence. Every other country in the Americas was based on slavery.

Haiti was freedom, and proceeded to place in its 1805 Independence Constitution that any person of African descent who arrived on its shores would be declared free, and a citizen of the republic.

For the first time since slavery had commenced, Blacks were the subjects of mass freedom and citizenship in a nation.

The French refused to recognise Haiti's independence and declared it an illegal pariah state. The Americans, whom the Haitians looked to in solidarity as their mentor in independence, refused to recognise them, and offered solidarity instead to the French. The British, who were negotiating with the French to obtain the ownership title to Haiti, also moved in solidarity, as did every other nation-state the Western world.

Haiti was isolated at birth - ostracised and denied access to world trade, finance, and institutional development. It was the most vicious example of national strangulation recorded in modern history.

The Cubans, at least, have had Russia, China, and Vietnam. The Haitians were alone from inception. The crumbling began.

Then came 1825; the moment of full truth. The republic is celebrating its 21st anniversary. There is national euphoria in the streets of Port-au-Prince.

The economy is bankrupt; the political leadership isolated. The cabinet took the decision that the state of affairs could not continue.

The country had to find a way to be inserted back into the world economy. The French government was invited to a summit.

Officials arrived and told the Haitian government that they were willing to recognise the country as a sovereign nation but it would have to pay compensation and reparation in exchange. The Haitians, with backs to the wall, agreed to pay the French.

The French government sent a team of accountants and actuaries into Haiti in order to place a value on all lands, all physical assets, the 500 000 citizens were who formerly enslaved, animals, and all other commercial properties and services.

The sums amounted to 150 million gold francs. Haiti was told to pay this reparation to France in return for national recognition.

The Haitian government agreed; payments began immediately. Members of the Cabinet were also valued because they had been enslaved people before independence.

Thus began the systematic destruction of the Republic of Haiti. The French government bled the nation and rendered it a failed state. It was a merciless exploitation that was designed and guaranteed to collapse the Haitian economy and society.

Haiti was forced to pay this sum until 1922 when the last instalment was made. During the long 19th century, the payment to France amounted to up to 70 per cent of the country's foreign exchange earnings.

Jamaica today pays up to 70 per cent in order to service its international and domestic debt. Haiti was crushed by this debt payment. It descended into financial and social chaos.

The republic did not stand a chance. France was enriched and it took pleasure from the fact that having been defeated by Haitians on the battlefield, it had won on the field of finance. In the years when the coffee crops failed, or the sugar yield was down, the Haitian government borrowed on the French money market at double the going interest rate in order to repay the French government.

When the Americans invaded the country in the early 20th century, one of the reasons offered was to assist the French in collecting its reparations.

The collapse of the Haitian nation resides at the feet of France and America, especially. These two nations betrayed, failed, and destroyed the dream that was Haiti; crushed to dust in an effort to destroy the flower of freedom and the seed of justice.

Haiti did not fail. It was destroyed by two of the most powerful nations on earth, both of which continue to have a primary interest in its current condition.

The sudden quake has come in the aftermath of summers of hate. In many ways the quake has been less destructive than the hate.

Human life was snuffed out by the quake, while the hate has been a long and inhumane suffocation - a crime against humanity.

During the 2001 UN Conference on Race in Durban, South Africa, strong representation was made to the French government to repay the 150 million francs.

The value of this amount was estimated by financial actuaries as US$21 billion. This sum of capital could rebuild Haiti and place it in a position to re-engage the modern world. It was illegally extracted from the Haitian people and should be repaid.

It is stolen wealth. In so doing, France could discharge its moral obligation to the Haitian people.

For a nation that prides itself in the celebration of modern diplomacy, France, in order to exist with the moral authority of this diplomacy in this post-modern world, should do the just and legal thing.

Such an act at the outset of this century would open the door for a sophisticated interface of past and present, and set the Haitian nation free at last.

l Sir Hilary Beckles is pro-vice-chancellor and Principal of the Cave Hill Campus, UWI.

[Anonymous]

Aristide should send the money he stole from the country and stay away. He should be tried for his crimes against humanity. He is the worst thing that could ever happened to Haiti pre-earthquake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aristide should send the money he stole from the country and stay away. He should be tried for his crimes against humanity. He is the worst thing that could ever happened to Haiti pre-earthquake.

The worst thing? Worse than Papa Doc Duvalier?

Learn some history.

[Anonymous]

If you're interested in Haiti, following Richard Morse's tweets might be fascinating. He's the current owner of the Oloffson. www.twitter.com/RAMHaiti
American father, Haitian mother.

[Anonymous]

Today's NY Times has two interesting articles about Haiti. The odd thing is that the topic of http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/opinion/07fountain.html, drugs, is not even mentioned in http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/opinion/07wilentz.html.