Thoughts on Montgomery County vs VA schools

[Anonymous]

I agree with the poster who said that Silver Spring and Takoma schools are a mixed bag. There are some that need to be avoided, which you can do even if it's your local school, by enrolling them in an immersion, magnet or lottery program for a school elsewhere in the county. In fact, if 11:08 lives in Takoma but her kid goes to school in SS, as she says, then her kid is also in an immersion, magnet or lottery program. We did language immersion in order to escape the local school, and were very happy. Some of the lotteries are quite competitive, so it's not a guarantee that your kid will get in, however. School quality is more even in Bethesda, if you can manage that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:... but don't forget, FFX County is also a completely awful location if you're working in downtown DC and it is full of strip malls and Applebees.

This is what people who live in DC tend to say to make themselves feel better about their generally awful public schools and all the effort they have to make to secure a slot for their children at a somewhat decent public elementary school before they pull their kids from the public school system and send them to private school...although there are some people in Maryland who say the same thing to make themselves feel better about the fact that their taxes are higher and most of the job growth in the area is in VA rather than MD.

To the extent accuracy matters on this forum, it is fair to say there are a lot of strip malls in both VA and MD, they actually tend to contain a lot of family-owned restaurants and shops. There are very few Applebees in the closer-in suburbs (none in Arlington or Alexandria, one in Falls Church, and a very small number in the outer suburbs of Fairfax County).

Depending on where you're located, the commute to downtown DC from FFX County is about the same as that from Montgomery. River Road, Connecticut Avenue and 16th Street are not exactly expressways.

[Anonymous]

In fact, if 11:08 lives in Takoma but her kid goes to school in SS, as she says, then her kid is also in an immersion, magnet or lottery program.

11:08 here. The statement above is incorrect. There is a section of TKPK that is zoned to SS schools (my child is not lottery, magnet or immersion, although those are fine programs). Which all goes to show the importance of doing your own careful research on school boundaries, which change over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Silver Spring, while close in and appealing doesn't have very good schools. Rockville and Gaithersburg have better schools but they are completely awful locations. Strip mall Applebee paradise.

Arlington and FFX County are much better, but look at NORTH Arlington. Fairfax County has one of the best school systems in the entire country - they've always been a model. However, be advised that they're undergoing budget cuts and some of the special programs which set them apart are being cut.

You can spit out the silver spoon now, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Silver Spring, while close in and appealing doesn't have very good schools. Rockville and Gaithersburg have better schools but they are completely awful locations. Strip mall Applebee paradise.

Arlington and FFX County are much better, but look at NORTH Arlington. Fairfax County has one of the best school systems in the entire country - they've always been a model. However, be advised that they're undergoing budget cuts and some of the special programs which set them apart are being cut.

You can spit out the silver spoon now, PP.

Just ignore the Vienna or Mclean mom with beige hair.

[Anonymous]

Totally agree with the Falls Church City / North Arlington advice. We live in DC now and hope to stay in the city, but we've researched the heck out of area public school systems in case we're not happy with our ultimate school options here and have to move. We started this process with a strong MoCo bias, but that's not at all where we've ended up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, in my opinion there's a big difference between the state curriculua in VA versus MD. I prefer the one in VA because it seems to require more teaching of Social Studies and Science, and it covers topics more deeply, in the early elementary years than the curriculum in MD. MD seems heavily focused just on math and language arts, and I find their state tests annoying, with all the Brief Constructed Responses. I am a former VA teacher, living now in MD, but wishing my kids could be going to VA schools.

My partner teaches for Fairfax and finds the same problems you are encountering in MoCo in FFX; it's really no different in VA than MD. The problem is that emphasis on achieving high test scores due to No Child Left behind forces the administration to concentrate solely on test scores. Furthermore, I've seen what kids in Fairfax are learning with science and social studies and to be frank I was less than impressed. Honestly, if you really want your child to succeed I would highly recommend getting a tutor or spending time with your child over every lesson. Schools can only do so much to help your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My partner teaches for Fairfax and finds the same problems you are encountering in MoCo in FFX; it's really no different in VA than MD. The problem is that emphasis on achieving high test scores due to No Child Left behind forces the administration to concentrate solely on test scores. Furthermore, I've seen what kids in Fairfax are learning with science and social studies and to be frank I was less than impressed. Honestly, if you really want your child to succeed I would highly recommend getting a tutor or spending time with your child over every lesson. Schools can only do so much to help your child.

I think it is different. However little social studies kids may be learning in Fairfax and other VA schools, now imagine less in MD schools.

At least VA tests social studies on state tests, starting in grade 3. The order of subjects may change from school district to school district, but the topics through elementary school might look like this:

Grade 3 Social studies (Ancient Greece and Ancient Rom and Mali)
Grade 4 VA Studies
Grade 5 American History to 1855
Grade 6 American History 1855 to present
Grade 7 Civics and Economics
Grade 8 World History and Geography to 1500

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/testing/sol/standards_docs/history_socialscience/index.shtml


Students each take a test on the topic, and their parents get to see how they did. Scores aren't reported just by school, but individually.


MD doesn't test social studies in grades 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8.

What gets tested, gets taught. That's the bottom line.

[Anonymous]

Compare:

VA 4th grade SOL math test

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/testing/sol/released_tests/2007/test07_math4.pdf


MD 4th grade MSA math test

http://mdk12.org/assessments/k_8/pr_grade4_math_2008.html

MD's test questions drive me nuts. For some reason they can't just ask "which angle is an obtuse angle?" They need to make it "real life" so they say somehting like, JOhn says this one is an obtuse angle. Mary thinks the other one is. Who is right?"

And MD's test questions seem to have many more question sthat test lower level thinking skills. It's a less demanding test. I think VA is asking more of its students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:... but don't forget, FFX County is also a completely awful location if you're working in downtown DC and it is full of strip malls and Applebees.

This is what people who live in DC tend to say to make themselves feel better about their generally awful public schools and all the effort they have to make to secure a slot for their children at a somewhat decent public elementary school before they pull their kids from the public school system and send them to private school...although there are some people in Maryland who say the same thing to make themselves feel better about the fact that their taxes are higher and most of the job growth in the area is in VA rather than MD.

To the extent accuracy matters on this forum, it is fair to say there are a lot of strip malls in both VA and MD, they actually tend to contain a lot of family-owned restaurants and shops. There are very few Applebees in the closer-in suburbs (none in Arlington or Alexandria, one in Falls Church, and a very small number in the outer suburbs of Fairfax County).

Depending on where you're located, the commute to downtown DC from FFX County is about the same as that from Montgomery. River Road, Connecticut Avenue and 16th Street are not exactly expressways.

NOVA is so horrendously planned. Say what you want about DC and MD, but our roads are nearly as congested as NOVA's are on the weekend. Don't even get me started on 66. Outside of Alexandria and Arlington VA has no walkable downtown by any means. DC has far more vibrant and walkable neighborhoods. Ditto for MD with Bethesda, Silver Spring, Friendship Heights, Rockville, even Gaithersburg has the Kentlands.

Furthermore, simply because VA has low taxes doesn't always equate to a better quality of life. Due to Fairfax's reluctance to raise taxes, I know plenty of teachers in Fairfax who are looking to leave the district as they now encountered their third year without a pay raise or cost of living increase. Teachers already can't afford to live in Fairfax so what's the incentive to stay if they have no pay raise? If Fairfax loses it's stellar teachers and continues to cut services to education, it's schools will suffer.

[Anonymous]

Teachers already can't afford to live in Fairfax so what's the incentive to stay if they have no pay raise?

Hiring freezes everywhere, so no jobs elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

FCPS also lets teachers pupil place their own kids into the school they teach at. So leaving the school may be disruptive to their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Teachers already can't afford to live in Fairfax so what's the incentive to stay if they have no pay raise?

Hiring freezes everywhere, so no jobs elsewhere.

Exactly. I am a teacher in FCPS and I am staying put because of the seniority I have here and the fact that there are no other jobs elsewhere. Once you have been at a school for awhile, it is hard to go back to being the newbie at another school and having to deal with no classroom, etc.

[Anonymous]

I live in MoCo in a neighborhood DH and I picked before we had kids (and before we really knew what to look at). Kids are still for the moment preschool-age, and we're dreading the testing in the public schools.

The testing has been discussed already, but here are some pros and cons that I want to add:

FFX / Arlington Pro:

Thomas Jefferson High School (magnet) - this is huge if you think one or more of your kids will have a strong talent / inclination for the sciences. Note that residents of Alexandria are not eligible for the TJ magnet program.

I think language immersion is more prevalent and easier to get into in FFX and Arlington counties.

Further down the road, having the option to send your kids to UVA in-state is a great advantage.

MoCo Pro:

I don't want to be specific about our high school - it's one of BCC / Churchill / Whitman. We're really happy to have this as our public high school choice - all are very strong academic options.

Aside from the worry about testing, as far as we know our elementary school is great (the numbers are great all our neighbors with elementary school-age kids love the school).

If we do decide to pull our kids from the public schools, we have some great private school options. Most of the private schools are on the DC / MD side of the river.

The bottom line is that although we live in MoCo in a situation I'm generally happy with, there are some days I regret that we didn't move to FFX or Arlington (TJ and language immersion).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Furthermore, simply because VA has low taxes doesn't always equate to a better quality of life.

True - MoCo roads were plowed right after the big December snowstorm and NoVA streets (major ones, mind you) were dangerous to drive for days.