ESPN’s Bulls/Jordan documentary “The Last Dance”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The part yesterday where Obama criticizes Jordan for not being involved in politics totally ruined the moment for me.

Yeah, last night's episode did get a tad too political for my liking. I'm not a huge fan of Todd Boyd.

Interesting! I thought the entire point of that segment was how UNpolitical Jordan was. Obama made the point that black individuals who reach a certain strata of fame and influence are often looked to for social commentary, but MJ shied away from that (i think Obama implied he was a bit disappointed, too—many were hoping for another Ali-level influencer).
The stuff about the NC senate election, and how MJ refused to endorse the Dem candidate because “Republicans buy sneakers too” was fascinating. Then to see him use the flag as a prop to cover up the Reebok logo in the Olympics was distasteful (it’s also sad how the Olympics turned into “USA Basketball” fest, but I digress).
I’m torn between respecting Jordan as strictly a businessman who knew politics wasn’t for him, or a bit of a phony who starred in ads telling young people to “be like Mike”—which I guess means Gatorade, basketball, gambling, and selling shoes.

I agree with much of what you wrote, which is why I said it was only a tad too political (meaning the documentary, not Jordan himself). Anything more would have veered into preachy.

They do also make a very good point that Jordan was a trailblazer insofar as he was able to achieve economic security for himself and subsequent generations. People like Lebron etc. take their stances from a position of relative comfort, in large part because Jordan helped create a platform to safeguard their economic security and taking more political stances would not seriously jeopardize them economically. This is also part of the reason Kaepernick is respected in certain parts; because his career did suffer greatly for the stance that he took, whether you agree with him or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The part yesterday where Obama criticizes Jordan for not being involved in politics totally ruined the moment for me.

Yeah, last night's episode did get a tad too political for my liking. I'm not a huge fan of Todd Boyd.

Interesting! I thought the entire point of that segment was how UNpolitical Jordan was. Obama made the point that black individuals who reach a certain strata of fame and influence are often looked to for social commentary, but MJ shied away from that (i think Obama implied he was a bit disappointed, too—many were hoping for another Ali-level influencer).
The stuff about the NC senate election, and how MJ refused to endorse the Dem candidate because “Republicans buy sneakers too” was fascinating. Then to see him use the flag as a prop to cover up the Reebok logo in the Olympics was distasteful (it’s also sad how the Olympics turned into “USA Basketball” fest, but I digress).
I’m torn between respecting Jordan as strictly a businessman who knew politics wasn’t for him, or a bit of a phony who starred in ads telling young people to “be like Mike”—which I guess means Gatorade, basketball, gambling, and selling shoes.

I agree with much of what you wrote, which is why I said it was only a tad too political (meaning the documentary, not Jordan himself). Anything more would have veered into preachy.

They do also make a very good point that Jordan was a trailblazer insofar as he was able to achieve economic security for himself and subsequent generations. People like Lebron etc. take their stances from a position of relative comfort, in large part because Jordan helped create a platform to safeguard their economic security and taking more political stances would not seriously jeopardize them economically. This is also part of the reason Kaepernick is respected in certain parts; because his career did suffer greatly for the stance that he took, whether you agree with him or not.

This is why it’s a pretty good documentary! Lots of layers and angles!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The part yesterday where Obama criticizes Jordan for not being involved in politics totally ruined the moment for me.

Yeah, last night's episode did get a tad too political for my liking. I'm not a huge fan of Todd Boyd.

Interesting! I thought the entire point of that segment was how UNpolitical Jordan was. Obama made the point that black individuals who reach a certain strata of fame and influence are often looked to for social commentary, but MJ shied away from that (i think Obama implied he was a bit disappointed, too—many were hoping for another Ali-level influencer).
The stuff about the NC senate election, and how MJ refused to endorse the Dem candidate because “Republicans buy sneakers too” was fascinating. Then to see him use the flag as a prop to cover up the Reebok logo in the Olympics was distasteful (it’s also sad how the Olympics turned into “USA Basketball” fest, but I digress).
I’m torn between respecting Jordan as strictly a businessman who knew politics wasn’t for him, or a bit of a phony who starred in ads telling young people to “be like Mike”—which I guess means Gatorade, basketball, gambling, and selling shoes.

I agree with much of what you wrote, which is why I said it was only a tad too political (meaning the documentary, not Jordan himself). Anything more would have veered into preachy.

They do also make a very good point that Jordan was a trailblazer insofar as he was able to achieve economic security for himself and subsequent generations. People like Lebron etc. take their stances from a position of relative comfort, in large part because Jordan helped create a platform to safeguard their economic security and taking more political stances would not seriously jeopardize them economically. This is also part of the reason Kaepernick is respected in certain parts; because his career did suffer greatly for the stance that he took, whether you agree with him or not.

I watched it, and I think it was his agent David Faulk who was the “trailblazer.” The way he approached marketing “Air Jordan” as a stand-alone athlete like a tennis player or golfer was genius (from a marketing and business perspective).

You’re basically Saying Jordan made it so black athletes could get so rich they didn’t have to worry about losing their job if they spoke out politically/socially.
1. That’s more your take than the documentary’s
2. Jordan got rich. Period. He chose not to touch social issues and politics (he missed visiting the White House because he was betting on golf—his priorities were obvious)
2. John Carlos, Jesse Owens, and Muhammad Ali scoff at your assertion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The part yesterday where Obama criticizes Jordan for not being involved in politics totally ruined the moment for me.

Yeah, last night's episode did get a tad too political for my liking. I'm not a huge fan of Todd Boyd.

Interesting! I thought the entire point of that segment was how UNpolitical Jordan was. Obama made the point that black individuals who reach a certain strata of fame and influence are often looked to for social commentary, but MJ shied away from that (i think Obama implied he was a bit disappointed, too—many were hoping for another Ali-level influencer).
The stuff about the NC senate election, and how MJ refused to endorse the Dem candidate because “Republicans buy sneakers too” was fascinating. Then to see him use the flag as a prop to cover up the Reebok logo in the Olympics was distasteful (it’s also sad how the Olympics turned into “USA Basketball” fest, but I digress).
I’m torn between respecting Jordan as strictly a businessman who knew politics wasn’t for him, or a bit of a phony who starred in ads telling young people to “be like Mike”—which I guess means Gatorade, basketball, gambling, and selling shoes.

I agree with much of what you wrote, which is why I said it was only a tad too political (meaning the documentary, not Jordan himself). Anything more would have veered into preachy.

They do also make a very good point that Jordan was a trailblazer insofar as he was able to achieve economic security for himself and subsequent generations. People like Lebron etc. take their stances from a position of relative comfort, in large part because Jordan helped create a platform to safeguard their economic security and taking more political stances would not seriously jeopardize them economically. This is also part of the reason Kaepernick is respected in certain parts; because his career did suffer greatly for the stance that he took, whether you agree with him or not.

I watched it, and I think it was his agent David Faulk who was the “trailblazer.” The way he approached marketing “Air Jordan” as a stand-alone athlete like a tennis player or golfer was genius (from a marketing and business perspective).

You’re basically Saying Jordan made it so black athletes could get so rich they didn’t have to worry about losing their job if they spoke out politically/socially.
1. That’s more your take than the documentary’s
2. Jordan got rich. Period. He chose not to touch social issues and politics (he missed visiting the White House because he was betting on golf—his priorities were obvious)
2. John Carlos, Jesse Owens, and Muhammad Ali scoff at your assertion.

Sure he GOT rich, but it wasn’t always so.

You are citing exceptions rather than the rules. Activism is fine, but most of these young black athletes just want to provide for their families, not be some political activist. It’s more common now, but such is the zeitgeist and, yes, they have far more economic security now than they did then.

Jordan wasn’t making a political statement by skipping the White House. He just didn’t care. Athletes now are making a political statement because they have the luxury of doing so.

[Anonymous]

If social media was a thing when Jordan played, I bet he would have spoken out and dipped his toe in the political arena a bit more...
Even though he admits he doesn’t know anything about politics!

[Anonymous]

Jordan's sister accused their father of raping her for years in a book published in 2001. Jordan's mother knew and did nothing. I think Jordan was conflict adverse growing up in this environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jordan's sister accused their father of raping her for years in a book published in 2001. Jordan's mother knew and did nothing. I think Jordan was conflict adverse growing up in this environment.

This in interesting, but I would definitely not describe Jordan as conflict adverse. He was anything but. This doco is kind of painting him with a favorable brush, though they do reference some of his bad tendencies. He was a known asshole to his teammates and physically assaulted a few in practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jordan's sister accused their father of raping her for years in a book published in 2001. Jordan's mother knew and did nothing. I think Jordan was conflict adverse growing up in this environment.

This in interesting, but I would definitely not describe Jordan as conflict adverse. He was anything but. This doco is kind of painting him with a favorable brush, though they do reference some of his bad tendencies. He was a known asshole to his teammates and physically assaulted a few in practices.

Jordan is known to be a jerk human and bad person, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jordan's sister accused their father of raping her for years in a book published in 2001. Jordan's mother knew and did nothing. I think Jordan was conflict adverse growing up in this environment.

This in interesting, but I would definitely not describe Jordan as conflict adverse. He was anything but. This doco is kind of painting him with a favorable brush, though they do reference some of his bad tendencies. He was a known asshole to his teammates and physically assaulted a few in practices.

Jordan is known to be a jerk human and bad person, period.

Funny considering they make Isaiah Thomas out to be the biggest jerk on the planet!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jordan's sister accused their father of raping her for years in a book published in 2001. Jordan's mother knew and did nothing. I think Jordan was conflict adverse growing up in this environment.

This in interesting, but I would definitely not describe Jordan as conflict adverse. He was anything but. This doco is kind of painting him with a favorable brush, though they do reference some of his bad tendencies. He was a known asshole to his teammates and physically assaulted a few in practices.

Jordan is known to be a jerk human and bad person, period.

Funny considering they make Isaiah Thomas out to be the biggest jerk on the planet!

This is a Jordan-approved "documentary" with some of the footage only used/allowed with his explicit permission. An unauthorized Jordan documentary would get a lot further into the bad stuff about him. And there is a lot of bad stuff about him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The part yesterday where Obama criticizes Jordan for not being involved in politics totally ruined the moment for me.

I am from Charlotte and remember it being a big deal at the time that he didn't come out and support Harvey Gantt. Among black people anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is some pretty good content, but Jordan had full creative control over the whole thing, so it’s not as good or insightful as it could have been given the amount of footage they had available. Last nights episodes had a bunch of filler on playoff series about which we already know the outcome and didn’t need that much prolonged coverage. Also the jumping back and forth with the chronology is a little distracting/annoying. If it is supposed to be for artistic merit, I’m not really seeing the point.

I’ve heard this criticism but I disagree. It’s a great way of showing the background—not just of Jordan but of every key player on that ‘98 team. Look at last night’s episode, how they brought up Kukoc but went all the way back to ‘90 Draft, and then ‘92 Olympics (I had no idea how Jordan and Pippen were out to get him!) to tell his story. It made it interesting. How boring would it be if they went from early 80’s to 98 in a linear manner?

No, I understand this point, but they just seem to do it randomly. Like jumping from 98 to 92 and back, when it doesn't really add much because all of those jumps were about Jordan, not adding context. I guess my critique is that it is over-deployed to the point of being a distraction, not that it should be nixed altogether.

I don't like so much jumping back & forth.

Also zero mention of his wife & kids. It's really strange.

The man who produced the doc said he didn't need them to tell the story he wanted to tell, so they aren't in it.

[Anonymous]

Will Space Jamz be in this? I loved that movie as a kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is some pretty good content, but Jordan had full creative control over the whole thing, so it’s not as good or insightful as it could have been given the amount of footage they had available. Last nights episodes had a bunch of filler on playoff series about which we already know the outcome and didn’t need that much prolonged coverage. Also the jumping back and forth with the chronology is a little distracting/annoying. If it is supposed to be for artistic merit, I’m not really seeing the point.

I’ve heard this criticism but I disagree. It’s a great way of showing the background—not just of Jordan but of every key player on that ‘98 team. Look at last night’s episode, how they brought up Kukoc but went all the way back to ‘90 Draft, and then ‘92 Olympics (I had no idea how Jordan and Pippen were out to get him!) to tell his story. It made it interesting. How boring would it be if they went from early 80’s to 98 in a linear manner?

No, I understand this point, but they just seem to do it randomly. Like jumping from 98 to 92 and back, when it doesn't really add much because all of those jumps were about Jordan, not adding context. I guess my critique is that it is over-deployed to the point of being a distraction, not that it should be nixed altogether.

I don't like so much jumping back & forth.

Also zero mention of his wife & kids. It's really strange.

The man who produced the doc said he didn't need them to tell the story he wanted to tell, so they aren't in it.

*the story Jordan wanted to tell

[Anonymous]

It was pretty cool to see that grainy camcorder footage of that Team USA scrimmage in Barcelona where Jordan tells Magic “this is the 90’s, not the 80’s” Lol.
And in that earlier episode where Isaiah Thomas is asked why the pistons left the court without shaking hands and he says “it’s not like today where they’re all lovin’ on each other and hugging after the game” (or something to that effect). Even though the bulls dominated, the NBA era beginning with the “bad boy” pistons going into the 90s was great: they were genuinely competitive, they wanted to beat each other, and they played defense!