PSA: Implicit crosswalks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians had the right of way at every intersection except where there is a don't walk sign or the traffic light in green for the drivers.

No. In Virginia, if the intersection is not signaled, the speed limit on the street is 35MPH or higher, there is no painted crosswalk, AND there is no sidewalk for an implicit crosswalk to be an extension of, then the driver has ROW.

Now the driver should still attempt to avoid a collision, and last chance to avoid would still be an issue in a civil suit following a crash, IIUC. But there would be no criminal penalty for failure to yield ROW - which would be important in a civil suit, and would be the only possible punishment if no crash occurred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve been reflecting all wrong.

Let me clarify what I meant. In some discussions of street safety, I hear people say "well pedestrians do all kinds of unsafe and illegal things, so fixing driver behavior or implementing Complete Streets designs won't fix everything" While to some degree that is true, I think many people who say that are not clear on what the law actually is - and thinks pedestrians are jaywalking in places where they actually have the right of way. Notably at unmarked crosswalks such as the Va Code establishes.

Yes, this!

People who primarily drive tend to have very poor knowledge about pedestrian and bicycle specific laws. Very troubling.

Yes, people who primarily drive don't know the laws. More importantly, they don't care. They really just wish you would stay the heck off of "their" roads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you please share the statute/regulation you're referring to so I can make sure I fully understand what you're describing? I can't seem to find it.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/

The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

That does not mean what you think it means.

I think it does. This is law in NJ as well. This is an unmarked crosswalk.

I think DC as well.

DC Code
50–2201.28. Right-of-way at crosswalks.

(a) The driver of a vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within any marked crosswalk, or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, when the pedestrian is upon the lane, or within one lane approaching the lane, on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning.

(a-1) Whenever a vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk at an unsignalized intersection, a vehicle approaching the crosswalk in an adjacent lane or from behind the stopped vehicle shall stop and give the right-of-way to ensure the safety of pedestrians and bicyclists before passing the stopped vehicle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you please share the statute/regulation you're referring to so I can make sure I fully understand what you're describing? I can't seem to find it.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/

The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

That does not mean what you think it means.

I think it does. This is law in NJ as well. This is an unmarked crosswalk.

I think DC as well.

DC Code
50–2201.28. Right-of-way at crosswalks.

(a) The driver of a vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within any marked crosswalk, or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, when the pedestrian is upon the lane, or within one lane approaching the lane, on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning.

(a-1) Whenever a vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk at an unsignalized intersection, a vehicle approaching the crosswalk in an adjacent lane or from behind the stopped vehicle shall stop and give the right-of-way to ensure the safety of pedestrians and bicyclists before passing the stopped vehicle.

Thanks for finding. I thought it was the law. Probably because this debate comes up on this board so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought pedestrians had the right of way at every intersection except where there is a don't walk sign or the traffic light in green for the drivers.

No. In Virginia, if the intersection is not signaled, the speed limit on the street is 35MPH or higher, there is no painted crosswalk, AND there is no sidewalk for an implicit crosswalk to be an extension of, then the driver has ROW.

Now the driver should still attempt to avoid a collision, and last chance to avoid would still be an issue in a civil suit following a crash, IIUC. But there would be no criminal penalty for failure to yield ROW - which would be important in a civil suit, and would be the only possible punishment if no crash occurred.

Is the speed limit called out because of the stopping time for a car? To your point, it’s not like a driver can just be like “hey, speed limit’s 45mph, too bad sucka!” and mow down a pedestrian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you please share the statute/regulation you're referring to so I can make sure I fully understand what you're describing? I can't seem to find it.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/

The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

That does not mean what you think it means.

I think it does. This is law in NJ as well. This is an unmarked crosswalk.

Maryland also has unmarked crosswalks. 99% of licensed drivers don't know even know that there is such a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you please share the statute/regulation you're referring to so I can make sure I fully understand what you're describing? I can't seem to find it.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/

The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

That does not mean what you think it means.

I think it does. This is law in NJ as well. This is an unmarked crosswalk.

I think DC as well.

DC Code
50–2201.28. Right-of-way at crosswalks.

(a) The driver of a vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within any marked crosswalk, or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, when the pedestrian is upon the lane, or within one lane approaching the lane, on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning.

(a-1) Whenever a vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk at an unsignalized intersection, a vehicle approaching the crosswalk in an adjacent lane or from behind the stopped vehicle shall stop and give the right-of-way to ensure the safety of pedestrians and bicyclists before passing the stopped vehicle.

This is interesting. I've always wondered if it is clear whether you can go ahead and turn into a lane when the pedestrian is in the street but two lanes away, and it looks like the answer is yes. Some pedestrians seem to think that, if they are on the sidewalk thinking about stepping into the street or in a lane two lanes away, that everyone should stop and wait for them. I have had people on the sidewalk, more than 5-6 feet away from the crosswalk, yell at me for not stopping. Sorry, I can't read your mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is interesting. I've always wondered if it is clear whether you can go ahead and turn into a lane when the pedestrian is in the street but two lanes away, and it looks like the answer is yes. Some pedestrians seem to think that, if they are on the sidewalk thinking about stepping into the street or in a lane two lanes away, that everyone should stop and wait for them. I have had people on the sidewalk, more than 5-6 feet away from the crosswalk, yell at me for not stopping. Sorry, I can't read your mind.

Yes, you should stop.

When a walking person waits at the crossing for drivers to stop, it's, "I'm not going to stop because you're not IN the street yet, that's what the law says, how can I read your mind?"

When a walking person steps into the street so that drivers will stop, it's, "Pedestrians cross the street with total disregard for their own safety, it doesn't matter if you had the right-of-way if you're dead, you shouldn't even try to cross until all cars have stopped."

The underlying principle here is that pedestrians should never inconvenience people who are driving by forcing them to obey the law about stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is interesting. I've always wondered if it is clear whether you can go ahead and turn into a lane when the pedestrian is in the street but two lanes away, and it looks like the answer is yes. Some pedestrians seem to think that, if they are on the sidewalk thinking about stepping into the street or in a lane two lanes away, that everyone should stop and wait for them. I have had people on the sidewalk, more than 5-6 feet away from the crosswalk, yell at me for not stopping. Sorry, I can't read your mind.

Yes, you should stop.

When a walking person waits at the crossing for drivers to stop, it's, "I'm not going to stop because you're not IN the street yet, that's what the law says, how can I read your mind?"

When a walking person steps into the street so that drivers will stop, it's, "Pedestrians cross the street with total disregard for their own safety, it doesn't matter if you had the right-of-way if you're dead, you shouldn't even try to cross until all cars have stopped."

The underlying principle here is that pedestrians should never inconvenience people who are driving by forcing them to obey the law about stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks.

This is so true. You want me to walk my stroller out into the road so my baby is in traffic before you stop? You are a dick. Now pedestrians that show body language like they are about to cross, without regard for what message that sends to cars are too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is interesting. I've always wondered if it is clear whether you can go ahead and turn into a lane when the pedestrian is in the street but two lanes away, and it looks like the answer is yes. Some pedestrians seem to think that, if they are on the sidewalk thinking about stepping into the street or in a lane two lanes away, that everyone should stop and wait for them. I have had people on the sidewalk, more than 5-6 feet away from the crosswalk, yell at me for not stopping. Sorry, I can't read your mind.

Yes, you should stop.

When a walking person waits at the crossing for drivers to stop, it's, "I'm not going to stop because you're not IN the street yet, that's what the law says, how can I read your mind?"

When a walking person steps into the street so that drivers will stop, it's, "Pedestrians cross the street with total disregard for their own safety, it doesn't matter if you had the right-of-way if you're dead, you shouldn't even try to cross until all cars have stopped."

The underlying principle here is that pedestrians should never inconvenience people who are driving by forcing them to obey the law about stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks.

Seriously. If you are in a car and someone is waiting or approaching the crosswalk just freaking stop. Pedestrians should not have to flag you down, step into traffic (??? why is this even a thing?) or wait for all traffic to clear. If you are approaching a yield sign and there are cars coming that have the right of way the you stop or slow down, right? So why not do the same thing for pedestrians? Seriously, I want to know why cars do not yield or slow down when pedestrians have the right of way. Can someone who drives and does this tell me what is going through your mind when you are approaching a crosswalk and there is a woman with a stroller there and you don't stop your car to let her cross. Is the only answer to put a stop sign at every intersection?

[Anonymous]

Maryland has this too. Still, since most people dont' know about it, don't risk your life darting out into traffic. Pedestrians are so stupid that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maryland has this too. Still, since most people dont' know about it, don't risk your life darting out into traffic. Pedestrians are so stupid that way.

Pedestrians generally don't "dart out into traffic". If that's what it seems like to you, it's because you're driving too fast. Please slow down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maryland has this too. Still, since most people dont' know about it, don't risk your life darting out into traffic. Pedestrians are so stupid that way.

IME the stupidest pedestrians are people walking to their parked cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maryland has this too. Still, since most people dont' know about it, don't risk your life darting out into traffic. Pedestrians are so stupid that way.

Pedestrians generally don't "dart out into traffic". If that's what it seems like to you, it's because you're driving too fast. Please slow down.

Also, the pedestrians have the right of way so they are not the ones darting into traffic- drivers are the ones that are darting into the pedestrian path. The only reason it seems the other way around is that our society seems to find it acceptable to hit or almost hit pedestrians even if they have the right of way with basically zero repercussions to the drivers. And pedestrians stop at every intersection because they don’t want to die, not because they want to yield the right of way to drivers.