Does compact math get your ready for IM?

[Anonymous]

The most ridiculous problem I saw in compacted math 5/6 was: show why 72 degrees is higher than 58 degrees. If you say 72-58 = 14, therefore 72>58, you get only partial credit. Child has to show it with at least 3 different methods to get full credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A mom who was born abroad once drew a graph for me about the problem with math in the U.S.

Basically you have time on the x axis and the y axis is knowledge expected. From K-5 the line edges up very slowly. It's not exactly flat but you're not really moving too quickly. But then in 6th-12th you suddenly have to climb a steep mountain and that's where lots of kids start to fail. In her home country the build up was more like a straight line and steady so kids did not crash once they got to pre-Algebra or Algebra.

I heard similar things from an admin at mcps. Their explanation was that it's intentional that the slope is almost flat then exponentially climbs during the late middle school years. It was purposefully by the greats mcps minds because they want to ensure that kids have a solid foundation with the early years. Therefore, they keep it very slow and drill kids on five different ways to multiply 3x4. They have to draw it draw it out onto different charts, demonstrating mastery of different methods. Explain it by words. As a math major, I feel this is pretty dumb! My kids are so confuse trying to do the different methods that they actually make more careless mistakes. Furthermore, they know different ways of solving 3x4 but they get so little practice with fluency as part of the curriculum. Now, I tell them to tolerate the method, but at home we teach them the overall concept and focus on fluency.

Yes, but what is the MCPS solution, actually? It's drag algebra 1 out into a three year course, and leave most of the symbolic math to pre-calc. So instead of feeling an abrupt change with algebra, kids are going through courses called algebra, geometry, algebra 2, without actually learning the content that used to be in those classes. It's not that the content is somehow outmoded, because as of pre-calc they need to catch up in a hurry. And this actually means there is a longer gap between arithmetic and symbolic math. By the time they're first asked to symbolically find a common denominator for a rational function in pre-calc, the ES lessons were four years in the past.

Now there's a slow steady line from k-algebra 2, and a burst of material after that (for those who reach pre-calc before graduating HS, that is). Anyway, I think most commenters have students in ES or just entering MS. Like OP, my oldest is a freshman in college. My youngest is in 10th, so I've witnessed the curriculum twice now, and the second time I was quite vigilant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Compact math has got to be the slowest "enriched" math class I have ever seen.

My other child went thru the previous system and was on Math 7 in 5th grade and went to Algebra 1 for 6th. So we have no idea what IM is or if this new compact math class gets them ready for whatever IM is in 6th and Algebra 1 in 7th. We keep hearing some kids are able to move into IM in 6th that never took compact math. So if kids can go right into IM after completing 5th grade math - is IM just a review of 6th grade math the compact kids learned? Is there a way kids can skip IM and go to Algebra 1 in 6th? I just seems pretty random and no one at the math meeting could truly even explain what IM is.

The accelerated pathway is 4th (4/5 compacted), 5th (5/6 compacted), 6th (IM-pre-algebra which is 7/8 compacted) 7th (Algebra I)
So no OP IM is not a repeat of 5/6. They take lots of things learned earlier in math and make them more abstract. Like if you have a number to the power of something in the numerator and the same number to the power of something else in the denominator how do you re-write the fraction using variables?

IMHO, it's not that impossible to skip Math 6 if you have a child who is bright and can learn and practice on her own. This is why you see it happen occasionally. But it's another thing entirely to skip, completely skip (and I don't mean teaching your child all this at home) from pre-algebra and leap from Math 5/6 straight to Algebra.

The very last students who went through MCPS pre-2.0 graduated last year. Some of those students were able to take pre-algebra while still in their home elementary school. My DC wasn't one of those, but in HS she had friends on this track. There are the parents who repeat the MCPS line, that this was too much acceleration, and students were missing fundamentals. And certainly that may have happened in cases. But for the most part, the students who had this opportunity did very well because of it. Both because they got to work on math at the level that kept them engaged and because they escaped without being guinea pigs for the 2.0 HS sequence.

OP here. Yes, this was my daughter. She is a freshman in college. I didn't realize they were the last class that got to do that. We loved that math track prior to 2.0 and she did excellent in it. She even took 2 math classes junior year. I guess her Math 7 was considered pre-algebra and that is why she went into Algebra 1 at 6th. No one asked. That was where she was placed.

So what people are saying is that now kids can skip Math 6 and go right into IM, but no one can skip IM. But that Math 5/6 goes too fast and doesn't allow them to digest the concepts. So it almost seems better to not take compacted math? I guess my biggest pet peeve is how slow the math is in elementary school. I mean the absolute first time my daughter was taught time was mid year 2nd grade. Multiplication wasn't until the very end of 3rd and only because she was in a pull away group. So if 4/5 is slow and 5/6 is too fast. Ugh!! I just wish they went at a move even pace. I wish they tracked the kids in math classes, than pull away groups. The smarter groups were hardly ever pulled. And the review books we had for my older daughter? My youngest couldn't do half of the old work books 2-4th grade. Not just the math workbooks she had in school (yes they actually had physical workbooks!!) But even the ones purchased from Barnes and Noble. So we really needed to supplement. I guess she just got the shaft being in 2.0.

I mean you didn't NEED to supplement. She didn't NEED do do all those outside workbooks. She would have eventually learned everything just not at the same time as your older kid. See there you go. You supplemented outside of school and now you are complaining that things are too slow. You had me but now you don't. You're one of those parents.

Did I say she did "all of these outside workbooks?" No I did not. I don't supplement at all during the school year. I had workbooks that I had save and still had tons of pages leftover never used. And I pull out for summer on various days and it was obvious the last 2 summers how far back my 2nd daughter is in learning math IN SCHOOL by the lack of her not being able to do ON-GRADE-LEVEL work from books purchased only 8 years ago. Basic summer bridge books purchased at Barnes and Noble and the old public school workbooks. They are not gifted books, they were barely used by my first daughter. It was just painfully obvious skimming thru the books and asking my daughter if she knows how to do this and that, how slow that math has gotten.

If you are okay with slow dumbed down rigor of 2.0 math and point fingers at me for noticing the massive differences in the math curriculum with having kids 8 years apart, by calling me "one of those parents" so be it. I actually wish I was one of those parents that supplemented. Many do because the progress in lower elementary school is just too slow and it does not prepare our kids whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Compact math has got to be the slowest "enriched" math class I have ever seen.

My other child went thru the previous system and was on Math 7 in 5th grade and went to Algebra 1 for 6th. So we have no idea what IM is or if this new compact math class gets them ready for whatever IM is in 6th and Algebra 1 in 7th. We keep hearing some kids are able to move into IM in 6th that never took compact math. So if kids can go right into IM after completing 5th grade math - is IM just a review of 6th grade math the compact kids learned? Is there a way kids can skip IM and go to Algebra 1 in 6th? I just seems pretty random and no one at the math meeting could truly even explain what IM is.

The accelerated pathway is 4th (4/5 compacted), 5th (5/6 compacted), 6th (IM-pre-algebra which is 7/8 compacted) 7th (Algebra I)
So no OP IM is not a repeat of 5/6. They take lots of things learned earlier in math and make them more abstract. Like if you have a number to the power of something in the numerator and the same number to the power of something else in the denominator how do you re-write the fraction using variables?

IMHO, it's not that impossible to skip Math 6 if you have a child who is bright and can learn and practice on her own. This is why you see it happen occasionally. But it's another thing entirely to skip, completely skip (and I don't mean teaching your child all this at home) from pre-algebra and leap from Math 5/6 straight to Algebra.

The very last students who went through MCPS pre-2.0 graduated last year. Some of those students were able to take pre-algebra while still in their home elementary school. My DC wasn't one of those, but in HS she had friends on this track. There are the parents who repeat the MCPS line, that this was too much acceleration, and students were missing fundamentals. And certainly that may have happened in cases. But for the most part, the students who had this opportunity did very well because of it. Both because they got to work on math at the level that kept them engaged and because they escaped without being guinea pigs for the 2.0 HS sequence.

OP here. Yes, this was my daughter. She is a freshman in college. I didn't realize they were the last class that got to do that. We loved that math track prior to 2.0 and she did excellent in it. She even took 2 math classes junior year. I guess her Math 7 was considered pre-algebra and that is why she went into Algebra 1 at 6th. No one asked. That was where she was placed.

So what people are saying is that now kids can skip Math 6 and go right into IM, but no one can skip IM. But that Math 5/6 goes too fast and doesn't allow them to digest the concepts. So it almost seems better to not take compacted math? I guess my biggest pet peeve is how slow the math is in elementary school. I mean the absolute first time my daughter was taught time was mid year 2nd grade. Multiplication wasn't until the very end of 3rd and only because she was in a pull away group. So if 4/5 is slow and 5/6 is too fast. Ugh!! I just wish they went at a move even pace. I wish they tracked the kids in math classes, than pull away groups. The smarter groups were hardly ever pulled. And the review books we had for my older daughter? My youngest couldn't do half of the old work books 2-4th grade. Not just the math workbooks she had in school (yes they actually had physical workbooks!!) But even the ones purchased from Barnes and Noble. So we really needed to supplement. I guess she just got the shaft being in 2.0.

I mean you didn't NEED to supplement. She didn't NEED do do all those outside workbooks. She would have eventually learned everything just not at the same time as your older kid. See there you go. You supplemented outside of school and now you are complaining that things are too slow. You had me but now you don't. You're one of those parents.

Did I say she did "all of these outside workbooks?" No I did not. I don't supplement at all during the school year. I had workbooks that I had save and still had tons of pages leftover never used. And I pull out for summer on various days and it was obvious the last 2 summers how far back my 2nd daughter is in learning math IN SCHOOL by the lack of her not being able to do ON-GRADE-LEVEL work from books purchased only 8 years ago. Basic summer bridge books purchased at Barnes and Noble and the old public school workbooks. They are not gifted books, they were barely used by my first daughter. It was just painfully obvious skimming thru the books and asking my daughter if she knows how to do this and that, how slow that math has gotten.

If you are okay with slow dumbed down rigor of 2.0 math and point fingers at me for noticing the massive differences in the math curriculum with having kids 8 years apart, by calling me "one of those parents" so be it. I actually wish I was one of those parents that supplemented. Many do because the progress in lower elementary school is just too slow and it does not prepare our kids whatsoever.

I think you did the right thing. As a parent, if you notice there might be gaps, you have to question and support as you see it. Ignore the previous PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1 At least own it if your child is ahead due to out of school enrichment. Don't pretend your child is some kind of genius who is bored to tears and needs to skip into a higher class because she was born that way and then let us know 30 posts down that it's because you taught her at home.

I don't see anything wrong with teaching at home or sending her to Kumon but it's weird you didn't mention that earlier.

1. I never said my child was a genius
2. I never said I supplement all the time
3. I never said I wanted my child to skip a class.
4. Never used Kumon. Is it online? I don't even have an account
5. I never even said my child was ahead

You just chose to assume all of that, kudos for you.

1. I am asking how the changes are compared to before, because all we have had so far with 2.0 is on level math that has been very slow and now even compact math seems to be very slow. This worries me. The progress was very simple prior to 2.0. You were placed on a leveled course starting in 1st grade going forward. And I have no idea what IM is and if compact math even prepares them or if it is just a review. If it is still skippable like it was prior to 2.0. Things are just different. And no one else seemed to know what it was at the math meeting at our school. They were just rolling along with the new math curriculum and that does not apply to compact math or middle school math. It was a waste of my time to even attend and other 4/5th grade parents. So I asked here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most ridiculous problem I saw in compacted math 5/6 was: show why 72 degrees is higher than 58 degrees. If you say 72-58 = 14, therefore 72>58, you get only partial credit. Child has to show it with at least 3 different methods to get full credit.

This is when I open up the bottle of wine and pour myself a glass. Three different methods??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most ridiculous problem I saw in compacted math 5/6 was: show why 72 degrees is higher than 58 degrees. If you say 72-58 = 14, therefore 72>58, you get only partial credit. Child has to show it with at least 3 different methods to get full credit.

So what is the answer? LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A mom who was born abroad once drew a graph for me about the problem with math in the U.S.

Basically you have time on the x axis and the y axis is knowledge expected. From K-5 the line edges up very slowly. It's not exactly flat but you're not really moving too quickly. But then in 6th-12th you suddenly have to climb a steep mountain and that's where lots of kids start to fail. In her home country the build up was more like a straight line and steady so kids did not crash once they got to pre-Algebra or Algebra.

This is so sad. I wonder if the curriculum is changing because we have so many FARMS and immigrants coming into school with very limited basics and it goes too fast for them. This way they get everyone to a certain baseline?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most ridiculous problem I saw in compacted math 5/6 was: show why 72 degrees is higher than 58 degrees. If you say 72-58 = 14, therefore 72>58, you get only partial credit. Child has to show it with at least 3 different methods to get full credit.

This is when I open up the bottle of wine and pour myself a glass. Three different methods??

First year 2.0 was rolled out, my 3rd grader had to solve 1+2 TEN different ways.

I don't disagree with everything in the 2.0 math curriculum but they focus on too many techniques, and then not enough practice on mastery of memorization and using the equation method (which they need for advanced math) to solve problems. Two years ago I caught my 5th grader using a number line to solve a fraction problem. How is he going to do advanced math if he is thinks he should be drawing a number line to subtract fractions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most ridiculous problem I saw in compacted math 5/6 was: show why 72 degrees is higher than 58 degrees. If you say 72-58 = 14, therefore 72>58, you get only partial credit. Child has to show it with at least 3 different methods to get full credit.

This is when I open up the bottle of wine and pour myself a glass. Three different methods??

Just taking a guess here but maybe:

72-58=14
58+14=72
72-14=58
??

Is it basically trying to show this as a fact family? (Term I learned from my daughter's first grade math last year.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I heard similar things from an admin at mcps. Their explanation was that it's intentional that the slope is almost flat then exponentially climbs during the late middle school years. It was purposefully by the greats mcps minds because they want to ensure that kids have a solid foundation with the early years. Therefore, they keep it very slow and drill kids on five different ways to multiply 3x4. They have to draw it draw it out onto different charts, demonstrating mastery of different methods. Explain it by words. As a math major, I feel this is pretty dumb! My kids are so confuse trying to do the different methods that they actually make more careless mistakes. Furthermore, they know different ways of solving 3x4 but they get so little practice with fluency as part of the curriculum. Now, I tell them to tolerate the method, but at home we teach them the overall concept and focus on fluency.

I'm in the minority but I think the idea of demonstrating mastery of different methods is very important. I have a very math-y child and doing all those methods was just intuitive. She could flip back and forth between all the different ways to do a problem and explain it very articulately. She did not get confused at all. My second child is also an A student in compacted math and like many was pretty annoyed at having to draw out different types of charts and do problems many different ways when there was one solution that seemed obvious. It's not as easy for her to understand the 4-5 other methods. I do think she's getting a good foundation because of this approach and feel her understanding of math is much deeper than it was for me at her age. However, I do agree that they should practice and drill more. It's not enough to do 3 problems on one topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most ridiculous problem I saw in compacted math 5/6 was: show why 72 degrees is higher than 58 degrees. If you say 72-58 = 14, therefore 72>58, you get only partial credit. Child has to show it with at least 3 different methods to get full credit.

This is when I open up the bottle of wine and pour myself a glass. Three different methods??

Just taking a guess here but maybe:

72-58=14
58+14=72
72-14=58
??

Is it basically trying to show this as a fact family? (Term I learned from my daughter's first grade math last year.)

No, it would be more like show it with a number line

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most ridiculous problem I saw in compacted math 5/6 was: show why 72 degrees is higher than 58 degrees. If you say 72-58 = 14, therefore 72>58, you get only partial credit. Child has to show it with at least 3 different methods to get full credit.

This is when I open up the bottle of wine and pour myself a glass. Three different methods??

Just taking a guess here but maybe:

72-58=14
58+14=72
72-14=58
??

Is it basically trying to show this as a fact family? (Term I learned from my daughter's first grade math last year.)

No, it would be more like show it with a number line

Cut myself off:
Show it with a number line,
Show it by comparing 10s digits
Show it by subtracting

But, anyone whose has internalized subtraction, doesn’t bat an eye at the first two.

[Anonymous]

Seems that at a lot of middle schools just move most kids into IM in 6th anyways

Also I hear with new math curriculum there might not be any acceleration option at all. What a mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most ridiculous problem I saw in compacted math 5/6 was: show why 72 degrees is higher than 58 degrees. If you say 72-58 = 14, therefore 72>58, you get only partial credit. Child has to show it with at least 3 different methods to get full credit.

This is when I open up the bottle of wine and pour myself a glass. Three different methods??

Just taking a guess here but maybe:

72-58=14
58+14=72
72-14=58
??

Is it basically trying to show this as a fact family? (Term I learned from my daughter's first grade math last year.)

No, you would have failed this compacted math problem!