What distinguishes top state schools from others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just remember that UVA is so much smaller than the big state u schools. It doesn't feel like those Big 10 schools with 60,000+ people on campus.

Enrollment is pushing 25K. Not Ohio State, but certainly not small. There are only about 10 private universities in the U.S. that are that large.

That’s with grad students. It’s small compared to OSU, Penn State, etc. it’s just not a good comparison.

Private schools aren’t really being discussed here.

No part of it is small unless you compare it to a huge school.

[Anonymous]

Some schools might make an effort to create small communities within the huge school population (like at the dept level). I know Michigan did this for grad school (i.e., faculty had potlucks in their homes), but I did not go to a large state school undergrad.

Some schools have big reputations for securing lots of research funds...that benefits grad students much more than undergrads (who must compete for faculty time and attention).

[Anonymous]

Size and some other factors. UVA has always been well regarded but it took off with the huge growth rate of super smart people moving into nova. Their offspring often liked the flagship (or sometimes W&M). This really stated in the early 80s and it’s flat out crazy competitive now. Michigan and Madison have long served as the de facto state schools for New Jersey and NY, where lots of brilliant kids live, but the state options, outside of some parts of Cornell, are not that good. I have no idea why UNC ended up as a solid school.

[Anonymous]

The best state universities are in California. California does not allow affirmative action by law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best state universities are in California. California does not allow affirmative action by law.

They have moved to "holistic" admissions to get around that law. This de-emphasized just looking at things like standardized test scores. If Berkeley and UCLA just went by standardized test scores and class rank, they would be significantly more selective than other state schools in my view.

But note that other state schools do the same. There was a very recent study by a conservative think tank that showed that W&M and UVA have large gaps in standardized test scores between different racial groups.

I have lived in California. I would dispute that they are the best state universities for undergraduates. The UC System is extraordinarily focused on research and graduate programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Size and some other factors. UVA has always been well regarded but it took off with the huge growth rate of super smart people moving into nova. Their offspring often liked the flagship (or sometimes W&M). This really stated in the early 80s and it’s flat out crazy competitive now. Michigan and Madison have long served as the de facto state schools for New Jersey and NY, where lots of brilliant kids live, but the state options, outside of some parts of Cornell, are not that good. I have no idea why UNC ended up as a solid school.

North Carolina has long invested more in higher education than Virginia. It is considerably lower cost. UNC, if you look at the breadth of graduate programs, UNC tends to be higher ranked programs than UVA (areas like law are an obvious exception).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't the academic quality of your peers differ as well? If your peers have 1100 SAT's vs. 1450 SAT's, you're probably going to notice a difference!

Yes if they are in the same class. But, most likely, they are not. Dumb kids will get weed out soon enough.

So getting a 1100 on the SAT means you are "dumb?" If so, I guess I'm dumb because I got a 1056 back in 1990. Well at least I'm happy. I went to a state university, a good law school, have a great husband and two great kids, and also earn about $375,000 per year in an in-house corporate legal position - a job I got through hard work and perserverence.

[Anonymous]

Faculty, students, and college towns are the big factors for me. Funding/access/state commitment to the institution factor in as well.

I, too, have lived in CA and know both a top and a “lesser” UC well. Both were excellent — and a smart, confident, highly motivated undergrad can get a college education at either school that rivals what’s available at any of the three top 10 private universities where I studied and/or taught.

The main differences between top publics and top privates involve hand-holding, social networking, and scale — none of which is inherently relevant to quality of education (but each of which may matter more to some families/students).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best state universities are in California. California does not allow affirmative action by law.

They have moved to "holistic" admissions to get around that law. This de-emphasized just looking at things like standardized test scores. If Berkeley and UCLA just went by standardized test scores and class rank, they would be significantly more selective than other state schools in my view.

But note that other state schools do the same. There was a very recent study by a conservative think tank that showed that W&M and UVA have large gaps in standardized test scores between different racial groups.

I have lived in California. I would dispute that they are the best state universities for undergraduates. The UC System is extraordinarily focused on research and graduate programs.

California is still under prop 209 that prohibits race as a factor. Just check out how many African Americans it admits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a Big 10 school many years ago. I went on a full-ride and had a decent education overall, but also the typical big school experience of huge biology and physics lectures, TAs or adjuncts teaching a good chunk of my classes, limited advising. I was very self-directed, so I was fine in that environment.

What makes flagship state schools like Michigan, UT and UVa rank so highly compared to others? I always assumed that any huge school (say, 20-50,000 students) would have the same pressures.

What are those higher-tier state schools doing differently?

-- Test scores and GPAs of attending students is a tick higher
-- Prestige PhD and grad programs (which doesn't really have anything to do with undergrad, but I digress)
-- Big endowments (although endowment divided by total students is abysmal at massive publics)
-- Lots of pricey campus construction, e.g. UMich is about to build a $1 billion new hospital building on campus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best state universities are in California. California does not allow affirmative action by law.

They have moved to "holistic" admissions to get around that law. This de-emphasized just looking at things like standardized test scores. If Berkeley and UCLA just went by standardized test scores and class rank, they would be significantly more selective than other state schools in my view.

But note that other state schools do the same. There was a very recent study by a conservative think tank that showed that W&M and UVA have large gaps in standardized test scores between different racial groups.

I have lived in California. I would dispute that they are the best state universities for undergraduates. The UC System is extraordinarily focused on research and graduate programs.

California is still under prop 209 that prohibits race as a factor. Just check out how many African Americans it admits.

California is 6.5% black. Berkeley undergraduate enrollment is about 3.1% black. So Berkeley enrollment percentage is 48% of the statewide percentage. Virginia is 19.2% black. UVA undergraduate enrollment is about 6.7% black. So UVA enrollment percentage is about 35% of the statewide percentage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best state universities are in California. California does not allow affirmative action by law.

We didn't think they were "the best" when we went.

Yes, they are good, and for the price of an in-state education they do a great job.

At least one UC has this feature in engineering school:

We were not impressed that our kid would have to pick his engineering major before arrival, not waver, not take a double major, not take a semester abroad or off or coop... because he owned his precise slot and not the slot one semester behind him.

For the money it costs to attend from OOS, this seemed like a big sacrifice.

No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have lived in California. I would dispute that they are the best state universities for undergraduates. The UC System is extraordinarily focused on research and graduate programs.

That's true but also creates opportunities for undergrads. I went to a UC and was able to work in labs, TA an undergrad course, etc. My roommate was an avian science major, which seems obscure but there were too many avian science classes to take them all. I did have some huge lectures but most of my classes were under 30 people because there was the bandwidth to provide that.

It is definitely possible to get lost in the cracks and I knew many people who did. There was no academic or career counseling to speak of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best state universities are in California. California does not allow affirmative action by law.

How can it be the best when they reserve 80% of the seats for CA residents? Any state university that reserves a certain number of seats for instate residents can’t automatically be the best as they are taking from students from a limited pool, rather than nationally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best state universities are in California. California does not allow affirmative action by law.

How can it be the best when they reserve 80% of the seats for CA residents? Any state university that reserves a certain number of seats for instate residents can’t automatically be the best as they are taking from students from a limited pool, rather than nationally.

There are so many people in California that reserving 80% for the cream of the California crop makes it a better school than most.