FCPS school authority hierarchy

[Anonymous]

* things were good in K and grade 1

[Anonymous]

op here: just to add, I've done a ton of graduate level math, so have sufficient background to assess how math test was evaluated...

I also checked fcps grading standards before raising any math-test-evaluation related questions with the teacher, b/c it just did not fit...
After getting invalid explanations, I felt the teacher consistently downgraded my son, and math was the area where I was competent enough to inquire "why-this-grade?" and revealed unfairness... -- sorry, this is just one of the side-layers of the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:op here.

Okay, help me out please -- Do I have a legitimate cause to escalate? DH wants to leave it alone, while I want fairness and appropriate challenge level for my son...

My son will be starting grade 3.

Principal refused to place my son in local L4 aap, after the school made a mistake in aap file.
We caught the error late...in June... the school included inaccurate test score, which suggested below avg rather than close to cut-off achievement. So, all the paperwork we put together for parent-referral was for nothing with that score. I also got WISC later for appeal, unaware of previous error in package by school[!].

I will omit other layers of the case for simplicity, but I observed teacher incompetence in both academic and child's behavior analysis on teacher' part last school year for the first time actually - things were goon in K and grade 1. The year was a disaster, compared to K- and 1st grade with all indications of ahead of the curve performance...

2nd grade teacher was very young, with provisional license, must be her early career, so I do feel for her - everyone deserves a chance and has to start somewhere.

However, when in her hand-written note she spells "using" as "useing" that's a red line, and there were more similar red lines that are kind of unacceptable one would think. Bottom-line, we had a bad match with a teacher in the second grade... grades went down across the board from predominantly 4s to 3s. - I did not complain during the year although considered it seriously, but I had many iterations on math grades that were low despite accurate answers, which was puzzling, and triggered my follow-ups directly with teacher only... - ultimately, low math grade on test could not be justified by her and she insisted: 3 is still a good grade, and just, trust us, other kids provide more complete answers to word problems.

Regional super (RS) is aware of my request "to principal-place to L4 even for a few months to see if it works," but RS did not interfere - just heard me out together with principal in June. Now, August, and principal rejected my request... and just apologized for the error with the file. So my June request was answered, after two follow-ups, only last week... Not sure if RS was notified by school. Most likely "no."

Additional support for my child's academic achievement that makes him a potential candidate for ft app track comes from WISC scores; that Russian school of math identified DC as advanced 3rd grader level; that third-party FCPS teacher w 20years of experience tested DC, and concluded the reading level is much more advanced than assessed by 2nd grade school teacher. Generally, my son kept saying grade 2 was too easy, and we had to enrich at home to provide appropriate challenge...

I am also keen to hear from teachers... am I taking it too far? To me, the whole thing boils down to a borderline kid whose app file was screwed-up, and so the kid did not get a fair review... why not give him a chance? if this does not work out, he is too young to realize a step back, if a step-back as a potential consequence is feared possibly by the principal [?]...

Thanks for the feedback.

Okay. I am probably not a good person to respond as I have been out of the system for a few years.

First, the inaccurate test score. Was this a clerical error? Teacher error? Why was it inaccurate? How close to cut-off was the accurate score? If the accurate score were above the cut-off, you would have a grievance. But, below? Not so sure.

I understand the concern about the grades from the teacher--but, it does seem a little late to question those unless you have documentation. You mention word problems. I cannot judge on those.

What did the WISC say? You did not address that in your post. You also only mentioned the error on the one test. Which test was that? What did the other tests say?

My advice: leave it alone and watch carefully. It seems to me it would be easy for the principal to "place" your child if the scores supported that. But, it is not good policy to place "for just a few months to see if it works." It is much easier to move a child "up" rather than "down."
Encourage your child to do his best. Do not encourage him to say that he is "bored." Do not interrogate him about what is going on with his teacher. Conversation is okay, but don't push to find out if he is the "best" in his class.

This is not the end of the road for your son.

FWIW, the "useing" would bother me greatly, too.

[Anonymous]

Whoa. Please dial it back. You’re talking about getting lawyers for this?

No.

Your kid didn’t get into AAP. This wasn’t all on the new teacher. There was an AART who out the packet together as well.

He will be fine. Listen to your spouse and back off.

[Anonymous]

If it’s AAP related, they would be opening a can of worms by allowing your son to be placed at this point. Your kid will be ok OP. Go look at the AAP board; lots of kids with high scores/eligible did not even make it. Let it go. You sound intense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op here.

Okay, help me out please -- Do I have a legitimate cause to escalate? DH wants to leave it alone, while I want fairness and appropriate challenge level for my son...

My son will be starting grade 3.

Principal refused to place my son in local L4 aap, after the school made a mistake in aap file.
We caught the error late...in June... the school included inaccurate test score, which suggested below avg rather than close to cut-off achievement. So, all the paperwork we put together for parent-referral was for nothing with that score. I also got WISC later for appeal, unaware of previous error in package by school[!].

I will omit other layers of the case for simplicity, but I observed teacher incompetence in both academic and child's behavior analysis on teacher' part last school year for the first time actually - things were goon in K and grade 1. The year was a disaster, compared to K- and 1st grade with all indications of ahead of the curve performance...

2nd grade teacher was very young, with provisional license, must be her early career, so I do feel for her - everyone deserves a chance and has to start somewhere.

However, when in her hand-written note she spells "using" as "useing" that's a red line, and there were more similar red lines that are kind of unacceptable one would think. Bottom-line, we had a bad match with a teacher in the second grade... grades went down across the board from predominantly 4s to 3s. - I did not complain during the year although considered it seriously, but I had many iterations on math grades that were low despite accurate answers, which was puzzling, and triggered my follow-ups directly with teacher only... - ultimately, low math grade on test could not be justified by her and she insisted: 3 is still a good grade, and just, trust us, other kids provide more complete answers to word problems.

Regional super (RS) is aware of my request "to principal-place to L4 even for a few months to see if it works," but RS did not interfere - just heard me out together with principal in June. Now, August, and principal rejected my request... and just apologized for the error with the file. So my June request was answered, after two follow-ups, only last week... Not sure if RS was notified by school. Most likely "no."

Additional support for my child's academic achievement that makes him a potential candidate for ft app track comes from WISC scores; that Russian school of math identified DC as advanced 3rd grader level; that third-party FCPS teacher w 20years of experience tested DC, and concluded the reading level is much more advanced than assessed by 2nd grade school teacher. Generally, my son kept saying grade 2 was too easy, and we had to enrich at home to provide appropriate challenge...

I am also keen to hear from teachers... am I taking it too far? To me, the whole thing boils down to a borderline kid whose app file was screwed-up, and so the kid did not get a fair review... why not give him a chance? if this does not work out, he is too young to realize a step back, if a step-back as a potential consequence is feared possibly by the principal [?]...

Thanks for the feedback.

Okay. I am probably not a good person to respond as I have been out of the system for a few years.

First, the inaccurate test score. Was this a clerical error? Teacher error? Why was it inaccurate? How close to cut-off was the accurate score? If the accurate score were above the cut-off, you would have a grievance. But, below? Not so sure.

I understand the concern about the grades from the teacher--but, it does seem a little late to question those unless you have documentation. You mention word problems. I cannot judge on those.

What did the WISC say? You did not address that in your post. You also only mentioned the error on the one test. Which test was that? What did the other tests say?

My advice: leave it alone and watch carefully. It seems to me it would be easy for the principal to "place" your child if the scores supported that. But, it is not good policy to place "for just a few months to see if it works." It is much easier to move a child "up" rather than "down."
Encourage your child to do his best. Do not encourage him to say that he is "bored." Do not interrogate him about what is going on with his teacher. Conversation is okay, but don't push to find out if he is the "best" in his class.

This is not the end of the road for your son.

FWIW, the "useing" would bother me greatly, too.

Agree with this poster. I'd bet any amount of money that you are not the first parent to try and escalate an AAP denial. FCPS keeps those decisions close to the vest and I've never known a parent who has successfully gotten any insight into the process (and I am mildly surprised by this, because I could believe there have at least been threatened lawsuits/ numerous FOIA requests about it). I have one kid in AAP whose scores were exactly the same as their younger sibling, who was not accepted last year. Apparently there are not hard and fast rules. I would suggest applying again in third grade if you think the program would be a good fit for your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa. Please dial it back. You’re talking about getting lawyers for this?

No.

Your kid didn’t get into AAP. This wasn’t all on the new teacher. There was an AART who out the packet together as well.

He will be fine. Listen to your spouse and back off.

-- op here. No-no, I just referred to all this in a jargon I guess. I am asking if this is worth escalating to regional super et al? I would not turn this into a legal matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it’s AAP related, they would be opening a can of worms by allowing your son to be placed at this point. Your kid will be ok OP. Go look at the AAP board; lots of kids with high scores/eligible did not even make it. Let it go. You sound intense.

- I am reading those. What I'm stuck on is that the kid is not gonna be challenged enough in a regular class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it’s AAP related, they would be opening a can of worms by allowing your son to be placed at this point. Your kid will be ok OP. Go look at the AAP board; lots of kids with high scores/eligible did not even make it. Let it go. You sound intense.

- I am reading those. What I'm stuck on is that the kid is not gonna be challenged enough in a regular class.

You do not know this. You’re creating this narrative with little foundation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op here.

Okay, help me out please -- Do I have a legitimate cause to escalate? DH wants to leave it alone, while I want fairness and appropriate challenge level for my son...

My son will be starting grade 3.

Principal refused to place my son in local L4 aap, after the school made a mistake in aap file.
We caught the error late...in June... the school included inaccurate test score, which suggested below avg rather than close to cut-off achievement. So, all the paperwork we put together for parent-referral was for nothing with that score. I also got WISC later for appeal, unaware of previous error in package by school[!].

I will omit other layers of the case for simplicity, but I observed teacher incompetence in both academic and child's behavior analysis on teacher' part last school year for the first time actually - things were goon in K and grade 1. The year was a disaster, compared to K- and 1st grade with all indications of ahead of the curve performance...

2nd grade teacher was very young, with provisional license, must be her early career, so I do feel for her - everyone deserves a chance and has to start somewhere.

However, when in her hand-written note she spells "using" as "useing" that's a red line, and there were more similar red lines that are kind of unacceptable one would think. Bottom-line, we had a bad match with a teacher in the second grade... grades went down across the board from predominantly 4s to 3s. - I did not complain during the year although considered it seriously, but I had many iterations on math grades that were low despite accurate answers, which was puzzling, and triggered my follow-ups directly with teacher only... - ultimately, low math grade on test could not be justified by her and she insisted: 3 is still a good grade, and just, trust us, other kids provide more complete answers to word problems.

Regional super (RS) is aware of my request "to principal-place to L4 even for a few months to see if it works," but RS did not interfere - just heard me out together with principal in June. Now, August, and principal rejected my request... and just apologized for the error with the file. So my June request was answered, after two follow-ups, only last week... Not sure if RS was notified by school. Most likely "no."

Additional support for my child's academic achievement that makes him a potential candidate for ft app track comes from WISC scores; that Russian school of math identified DC as advanced 3rd grader level; that third-party FCPS teacher w 20years of experience tested DC, and concluded the reading level is much more advanced than assessed by 2nd grade school teacher. Generally, my son kept saying grade 2 was too easy, and we had to enrich at home to provide appropriate challenge...

I am also keen to hear from teachers... am I taking it too far? To me, the whole thing boils down to a borderline kid whose app file was screwed-up, and so the kid did not get a fair review... why not give him a chance? if this does not work out, he is too young to realize a step back, if a step-back as a potential consequence is feared possibly by the principal [?]...

Thanks for the feedback.

Okay. I am probably not a good person to respond as I have been out of the system for a few years.

First, the inaccurate test score. Was this a clerical error? Teacher error? Why was it inaccurate? How close to cut-off was the accurate score? If the accurate score were above the cut-off, you would have a grievance. But, below? Not so sure.

I understand the concern about the grades from the teacher--but, it does seem a little late to question those unless you have documentation. You mention word problems. I cannot judge on those.

What did the WISC say? You did not address that in your post. You also only mentioned the error on the one test. Which test was that? What did the other tests say?

My advice: leave it alone and watch carefully. It seems to me it would be easy for the principal to "place" your child if the scores supported that. But, it is not good policy to place "for just a few months to see if it works." It is much easier to move a child "up" rather than "down."
Encourage your child to do his best. Do not encourage him to say that he is "bored." Do not interrogate him about what is going on with his teacher. Conversation is okay, but don't push to find out if he is the "best" in his class.

This is not the end of the road for your son.

FWIW, the "useing" would bother me greatly, too.

Agree with this poster. I'd bet any amount of money that you are not the first parent to try and escalate an AAP denial. FCPS keeps those decisions close to the vest and I've never known a parent who has successfully gotten any insight into the process (and I am mildly surprised by this, because I could believe there have at least been threatened lawsuits/ numerous FOIA requests about it). I have one kid in AAP whose scores were exactly the same as their younger sibling, who was not accepted last year. Apparently there are not hard and fast rules. I would suggest applying again in third grade if you think the program would be a good fit for your child.

----- It was admin error. Other test scores are all below the cutoff, but close. That's why I'm calling him borderline. The bottom-line remains the child did not get a fair review... but I am listening to the community here now.

---- On the word problem, it's too specific so can't share it. But I can say this: what teacher used as an example of a good, elaborate response was mathematically incorrect! The problem was related to fractions. When I pointed out the "sample answer" was incorrect, the teacher et al just turned to vague arguments that 3 is a good grade and let's him "grow and strive to do better"... to me, that's inability to justify objectively the grade. My kid's word answer was accurate, but too short in their view, for which he lost points. But when I first saw his answer, I thought it was excellent - short and to the point, clearly showing he gets the concept. The rest of the test was correct. The kid mastered fractions, and still did not get a 4, in that case... sorry, I'm getting into too much weeds again.

---- Yes, I am a bit intense and overly-involved when it comes to kid academics. I know he will be fine and yet I am not as chill as dh especially when fairness is at stake. You probably can tell this is my one and only child.

---- I kept all school work and teacher communications - I guess that's "documentation." I still have Kindergarten stuff too in a big box - it's just me saving things that are sentimental. Eventually I will sort through and digitalis nice samples, minimize the clutter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoa. Please dial it back. You’re talking about getting lawyers for this?

No.

Your kid didn’t get into AAP. This wasn’t all on the new teacher. There was an AART who out the packet together as well.

He will be fine. Listen to your spouse and back off.

-- op here. No-no, I just referred to all this in a jargon I guess. I am asking if this is worth escalating to regional super et al? I would not turn this into a legal matter.

No.

[Anonymous]

* Apologies for the typos above. Responding too quickly without checks...

[Anonymous]

----- It was admin error. Other test scores are all below the cutoff, but close. That's why I'm calling him borderline. The bottom-line remains the child did not get a fair review... but I am listening to the community here now.

OP--I don't think the school is out of line at all. To me, "borderline" would be some above and some below. If all are below, that does not seem borderline to me.

Which test was inaccurate?

You are right to keep papers for awhile. I did that every year. I did not throw away anything until after the end of the year. A friend gave me that advice. It came in handy two different times when DS was unfairly evaluated. Every parent should do this.

So, even though you have documentation, it does not sound like it supports putting your kid in AAP. If all the test scores are below the cutoff, it sounds to me like that is the reason the principal does not want to place him in the class. It's called a "cutoff" for a reason.

[Anonymous]

OP. Please don’t fret. I think there’s this crazy push to get your kids in AAP and part of it is parents wanting their kids to get the best education. And it’s also bragging rights/fear of their kids being left behind. I have one in the program and one in gen ed. Here is the deal: AAP isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be in DCUM. The things that make a difference: a) having a kid who is actually gifted, b) parents’ SES and educational background, c) teachers. I can’t speak enough of the later. We’ve had great teachers and mediocre ones. Keep encouraging your kids’ interests and learning, supplement when necessary.
Also if your kid does well in math, he might be eligible for advanced math even if he’s not in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. Please don’t fret. I think there’s this crazy push to get your kids in AAP and part of it is parents wanting their kids to get the best education. And it’s also bragging rights/fear of their kids being left behind. I have one in the program and one in gen ed. Here is the deal: AAP isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be in DCUM. The things that make a difference: a) having a kid who is actually gifted, b) parents’ SES and educational background, c) teachers. I can’t speak enough of the later. We’ve had great teachers and mediocre ones. Keep encouraging your kids’ interests and learning, supplement when necessary.
Also if your kid does well in math, he might be eligible for advanced math even if he’s not in AAP.

--- Thanks for the reply. 100% with you. Especially, on c). We were blessed for 2 first years. I have no words sufficient to thank those teachers enough. "Left behind," make it "unfairly left behind" is exactly my fear. I don't care for bragging rights. The school vaguely said he will be in L2 and/or L3 this year, but no further specifics yet. Supposedly, official letter will be sent soon. Knowing how l2 was fluid and disorganized last year with no communication whatsoever about what's going on, I don't expect much of it. Yes, we will continue supplementing.

--- to one of PPs above, other support: RSM intake assessment --we are looking forward to September start; third-party teacher view on reading / math level; my own observations in math only; the kid's unusual interest to whatever math you throw at him.

--- thanks all for your views.