NYT article - DCUM board menttioned

[Anonymous]

Has anyone considered that the testing is just better at detecting learning differences just likeDNA testing is better than it was 10 years ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone considered that the testing is just better at detecting learning differences just likeDNA testing is better than it was 10 years ago?

Of course. But that doesn't change the fact that wealthy kids are diagnosed more often.

[Anonymous]

I was rather surprised - given the angst on this board - that just 4% of those students who take the SAT do so without an accommodation. That is up from 2% in 2002 (when there was a designation on the score report indicating that a student had an accommodation during the exam).

That includes anyone, so students with 504s and IEPs, or no formal plan because they attend a private school.

And yes there’s abuse and the wealthier have a leg up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m glad this article didn’t conflate IEPs and 504s. Perhaps because IEPs carry more (unwarranted) stigma I never hear of someone seeking one for a kid without a true disability. But who gets 504s and why they have them is a lot murkier.

I guess there are assholes on all sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this article pisses me off. My DD gets extra time because of autism and ADHD. She would gladly give up the extra time to be neurotypical.

You should be pissed off at the people who are securing diagnoses their kids don’t qualify for, and accommodations they probably don’t need.

No. Angry at them for gaming the system. Angry at the other for being so stupid.

I am the pissed PP, the responding PP is not me.

I am pissed because the tone of the article is that people are getting these diagnoses to get accommodations. With DD, the diagnosis was secondary to depression. We found, in the neurospych testing, that there were performance drop-offs with time, the best way to put it is, when she get fatigued, she loses her working memory. The purpose of the neurosych testing was to try to figure out why her therapy (CBT) was just not working.

What the extra time allows her is to clear her head and refocus.

Some may say that is gaming the system; the extra time may or may not have helped her SAT's; she took the PSATs without extra time, and then the SATs with the time and the score did improve, from 1210 to 1400.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this article pisses me off. My DD gets extra time because of autism and ADHD. She would gladly give up the extra time to be neurotypical.

You should be pissed off at the people who are securing diagnoses their kids don’t qualify for, and accommodations they probably don’t need.

No. Angry at them for gaming the system. Angry at the other for being so stupid.

I am the pissed PP, the responding PP is not me.

I am pissed because the tone of the article is that people are getting these diagnoses to get accommodations. With DD, the diagnosis was secondary to depression. We found, in the neurospych testing, that there were performance drop-offs with time, the best way to put it is, when she get fatigued, she loses her working memory. The purpose of the neurosych testing was to try to figure out why her therapy (CBT) was just not working.

What the extra time allows her is to clear her head and refocus.

Some may say that is gaming the system; the extra time may or may not have helped her SAT's; she took the PSATs without extra time, and then the SATs with the time and the score did improve, from 1210 to 1400.

Some people are getting these diagnoses to get a perceived edge on standardized testing. Some students who are diagnosed do have a disability. Some students who have disabilities are never tested because their schools don't do it or their parents don't realize they should or they would like to and can't afford it.

This can all be true at the same time.

But the Dept of Ed data is clear; wealthier census tracks have far a higher percentages of students with 504s than non-wealthy communities. Are there more disabled kids living in the suburbs? Or just more families who can afford a diagnosis?

The conclusion to me is that there are probably tons of students who aren't being diagnosed and don't get services and supports they need to learn.
.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this article pisses me off. My DD gets extra time because of autism and ADHD. She would gladly give up the extra time to be neurotypical.

You should be pissed off at the people who are securing diagnoses their kids don’t qualify for, and accommodations they probably don’t need.

No. Angry at them for gaming the system. Angry at the other for being so stupid.

I am the pissed PP, the responding PP is not me.

I am pissed because the tone of the article is that people are getting these diagnoses to get accommodations. With DD, the diagnosis was secondary to depression. We found, in the neurospych testing, that there were performance drop-offs with time, the best way to put it is, when she get fatigued, she loses her working memory. The purpose of the neurosych testing was to try to figure out why her therapy (CBT) was just not working.

What the extra time allows her is to clear her head and refocus.

Some may say that is gaming the system; the extra time may or may not have helped her SAT's; she took the PSATs without extra time, and then the SATs with the time and the score did improve, from 1210 to 1400.

Some people are getting these diagnoses to get a perceived edge on standardized testing. Some students who are diagnosed do have a disability. Some students who have disabilities are never tested because their schools don't do it or their parents don't realize they should or they would like to and can't afford it.

This can all be true at the same time.

But the Dept of Ed data is clear; wealthier census tracks have far a higher percentages of students with 504s than non-wealthy communities. Are there more disabled kids living in the suburbs? Or just more families who can afford a diagnosis?

The conclusion to me is that there are probably tons of students who aren't being diagnosed and don't get services and supports they need to learn.
.

It’s not a “perceived” edge, its a real and tremendous advantage.

[Anonymous]

I think SAT/ACT should be a smaller piece of the overall application. Too many inconsistencies including wealthy kids who get 6 months of private coaching and take the test 4 times. I know a few private school kids whose parents spent an insane amount on private tutors for test prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this article pisses me off. My DD gets extra time because of autism and ADHD. She would gladly give up the extra time to be neurotypical.

You should be pissed off at the people who are securing diagnoses their kids don’t qualify for, and accommodations they probably don’t need.

No. Angry at them for gaming the system. Angry at the other for being so stupid.

I am the pissed PP, the responding PP is not me.

I am pissed because the tone of the article is that people are getting these diagnoses to get accommodations. With DD, the diagnosis was secondary to depression. We found, in the neurospych testing, that there were performance drop-offs with time, the best way to put it is, when she get fatigued, she loses her working memory. The purpose of the neurosych testing was to try to figure out why her therapy (CBT) was just not working.

What the extra time allows her is to clear her head and refocus.

Some may say that is gaming the system; the extra time may or may not have helped her SAT's; she took the PSATs without extra time, and then the SATs with the time and the score did improve, from 1210 to 1400.

You seem to be an example of a parent who thinks their child's disability is real and justifies support but nobody else's is.

My kid has had an IEP in place since third grade but that doesn't mean I assume other parents are faking it.

[Anonymous]

Anyone who has tried to get accommodations from a public school knows why there is a wealth disparity. The public schools do not want to have to give your child an IEP so their testing is weak and they err against identifying a problem. So kids whose parents can’t afford a private tester end up thinking there is no disability, when there really might be.

Do some people fake it? Likely, yes. But a huge part of the disparity is that the schools are disingenuous in identification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think SAT/ACT should be a smaller piece of the overall application. Too many inconsistencies including wealthy kids who get 6 months of private coaching and take the test 4 times. I know a few private school kids whose parents spent an insane amount on private tutors for test prep.

I agree with this sentiment, but truly I don't see any part of the application that isn't biased toward the wealthy. Wealthy families, and kids in more upscale schools, tend to get a lot of help with the essay writing. A friend told me that at her school, parents essentially write the counselor's recommendation for them (and indicated that was probably true in my school, too-- don't know since I have s sophomore). You might say that grades are the most appropriate metrics, but 1) schools have different levels of grade inflation so it is a difficult thing to measure precisely and 2) wealthy families put a lot into regular course tutoring (most of my dd's friends have a tutor for one thing or another).

I honestly don't think there is any part of the application that is 'clean' and I'm certain that if word gets out that schools are starting to prioritize something new (like grades) then an entire system will be put into place quickly to give wealthier kids a leg up on that measure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mostly about the wealthy being able to game the system and this tidbit:

One of the most common accommodations is extra time on classroom tests, which the two main college admissions testing companies, the College Board and ACT, look for when determining whether to grant students additional time for their exams. Many students struggle to complete standardized tests in the allotted minutes, and research has found that having more time can raise scores for students who have a decent grasp of the test material, whether or not they have a disability.

Show me this research that has found additional time helps all students. If this is true, then the the purported design of the SAT is flawed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone considered that the testing is just better at detecting learning differences just likeDNA testing is better than it was 10 years ago?

Sure. Now "being bad at timed test-taking" has become a learning disaiblity, such that you get more time on timed test-taking.

See the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this article pisses me off. My DD gets extra time because of autism and ADHD. She would gladly give up the extra time to be neurotypical.

You should be pissed off at the people who are securing diagnoses their kids don’t qualify for, and accommodations they probably don’t need.

No. Angry at them for gaming the system. Angry at the other for being so stupid.

I am the pissed PP, the responding PP is not me.

I am pissed because the tone of the article is that people are getting these diagnoses to get accommodations. With DD, the diagnosis was secondary to depression. We found, in the neurospych testing, that there were performance drop-offs with time, the best way to put it is, when she get fatigued, she loses her working memory. The purpose of the neurosych testing was to try to figure out why her therapy (CBT) was just not working.

What the extra time allows her is to clear her head and refocus.

Some may say that is gaming the system; the extra time may or may not have helped her SAT's; she took the PSATs without extra time, and then the SATs with the time and the score did improve, from 1210 to 1400.

it's absolutely gaming the system. timed tests time precisely what your daughter is BELOW AVERAGE at - maintaining focus and accuracy in a high-pressure situation. your daughter's score of 1400 is false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mostly about the wealthy being able to game the system and this tidbit:

One of the most common accommodations is extra time on classroom tests, which the two main college admissions testing companies, the College Board and ACT, look for when determining whether to grant students additional time for their exams. Many students struggle to complete standardized tests in the allotted minutes, and research has found that having more time can raise scores for students who have a decent grasp of the test material, whether or not they have a disability.

Show me this research that has found additional time helps all students. If this is true, then the the purported design of the SAT is flawed.

huh? the SAT is *designed to test processing speed.* if you have lower processing speed, you are SUPPOSED to do more poorly.

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED563027.pdf